2012-12-27, 21:10
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Link #41 | |
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You're Hot, Cupcake
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 43
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2012-12-27, 21:15
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Link #42 | |||
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Did nothing wrong
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Not here
Age: 40
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Ah, well said. Personally, I'm not too fond of the double standard that males should ignore their problems by not expressing them except through violence. It leads to people not seeking help for mental issues and shit or they try to solve their problems in too violent a manner. And then sometimes a person sees standing up for oneself to be shooting someone else. It's funny because in times past, that was actually acceptable. That being said I really don't like characters that just do irresponsible things and get away with it and they're supposed to be heroes that solve their problems as such. A good balance is someone like Kenshin who has a firm grasp of reality and what it means to confront problems. Quote:
 The story is about Shinjiko Robunaga who has been abandoned by her negligent mother that only cares about herself and has plans for humanity. Shinjiko is duped when a disaster hits Tokyo 3, and a charming and experienced captain named Masato Katsuragi abuses his handsome looks to bring the naive Shinjiko in. Spoiler for Don't read if you are easily disturbed :p:
Oh dear, I just pulled an Okada. Quote:
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2012-12-27, 21:44
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Link #43 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2012-12-28, 00:58
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Link #44 | |
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Shitpost Gremlin
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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2012-12-28, 12:16
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Link #46 | ||
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Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 38
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japan's views on what is and isn't acceptable for men to do are, if anything, even more screwy than their corresponding views of women, and that's saying something Quote:
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2012-12-28, 12:18
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Link #47 | ||
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Vanitas owns you >:3
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: in a boring place you will not want to go to
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You should actually do research before you state such things. Shoujo heroines are highly looked up to and idolized in Japan. When they take character popularity polls, the heroine seldom gets any spot BUT #1. If she doesn't get 1, she will easily get in the top three. How do I know this? I buy the freaking magazines.
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2012-12-28, 15:40
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Link #48 | |
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blinded by blood
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 40
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The best place to find tragic male characters is in, not surprisingly, stories adapted from Greek tragedies, and the original Greek tragedies themselves. I also find a lot of war stories tend to have tragic male characters, simply due to the fact that most all of the characters in war stories are male. I recently played through L.A. Noire, and the main character, Cole Phelps, is absolutely a tragic male hero played completely straight (it's film noir, though, so that isn't too surprising). Even then, the differences between tragic male characters and tragic female characters tends to be rather blatant, with female characters' tragedies being used to make them seem more appealing to male viewers, and male characters being portrayed as flawed, human and imperfect. In terms of anime with tragic male characters, Tomoya definitely qualifies, especially in After Story. I also consider Hei from Darker than Black to be a tragic male character, especially in the interquel OVA and the second season. Huang in his backstory arc during season one is also a good example--but this isn't too surprising, as Darker than Black is a film noir story, and film noir almost always has tragic male leads and supporting characters. It's possible to be tragic and badass at the same time. It's also possible for female characters to be portrayed as tragic without being sexist, too--it all depends on the writing. Sadly, most of the time the tragic heroine is written poorly with the intent to titillate (invoking the "moe" aspect and feelings of pity, sympathy and protectiveness in the viewers) rather than show a flawed, broken, imperfect person.
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2012-12-28, 17:11
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Link #49 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2012-12-29, 03:49
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Link #53 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The phenomenon of having secondary characters suffer in order to develop the characterization of the protagonist (usually as a means of providing motivation) is familiar to most entertainment media. It does happen more often with female characters in anime, but I think that this is largely an artifact of the kinds of stories told in anime than any other cause. In Hollywood action films, it's common for an older character's wife (and/or child) die or get captured as a way to provide a narrative and motivation for the protagonist. This can be seen in all sorts of films like Braveheart, Taken, Commando and Gladiator. The male equivalent is the very familiar death of the police officer who's just about to retire. The reason these character events are used so often is because it requires very little time to characterize the victims, but can still evoke a powerful reaction from the audience. Anime has to take a slightly different tack because the protagonists tend to be unattached teenagers, which makes the viable victims either younger family members, friends or lovers. An interesting trend in anime of the last fifteen years or so is that it's been pretty rare to see female characters die. The reason for this is that they're used as marketing tools for merchandise, and killing them off was thought to discourage potential buyers. The effect then is that male victims will die and female victims will live but suffer for the characterization of the protagonist.
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2012-12-29, 06:36
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Link #55 | |
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Shitpost Gremlin
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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2012-12-29, 08:02
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Link #56 |
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Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I think views of innocence regarding women (and children, who I think are also relevant to this topic) also contribute to why they're used so often to evoke sympathy. It might be a lesser role than most of what has been mentioned, but in my opinion it's an interesting perspective to think about.
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2012-12-29, 08:50
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Link #57 |
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別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I think there's something that must be said regarding the disproportion of "tragic heroines" and "tragic heroes". If you think so chances are that the majority of the anime you see are focused on female characters.
And when I say "focused" I don't mean main character. There's a lot of main characters often spanning from eroge, that barely exist as placeholders for the readers and therefore have little if no background and are usually uninteresting, in a few words the show is not focused on them. When you get a show that is focused on letting you know more about certain characters or is focused on them there's usually at least one of them with a tragic past. That's because a tragic past is a very effective way to make a character interesting, in general. Now when a show isn't focused on characters but on the story and so on, there's a lower chance of seeing something tragic. So my argument can be summarized with this point: Show me an anime that is focused on male characters, and I'll show you at least one male character with a tragic past or situation that affects him deeply. Apart from the already mentioned Guts from Bersersk, I can name quite a lot. -Both Al and Ed Elric from Full Metal Alchemist are haunted by a tragic event that affects them every single day of their life and the whole adventure is to find a way to make up for it. -The main story of Cowboy Bebop revolves around the tragic past of Spike Spiegel. - Vash the Stampede is likewise affected by his tragic past which he reacts with an undying optimism (which somehow makes him even more tragic). The show is really focused at making you feel pity for him, especially when you see his body completely devastated by scars. Reverend wolfwood is also the center of one of the most tragic scenes I've ever seen in an anime. - Kenshiro from Hokuto no Ken, is another good example of tragic character, but generally the whole show is a series of portrayal of manly tragedies. Rei, Raul, Toki, they are all very tragic figures that will make you shed a lot of manly tears. - Similarly Saint Seiya is filled with "greek tragedies" all revolving around male characters, but on a minor degree since the show is more focused on action. - Joe Yabuki from Ashita no Joe has become such an icon of tragic death that you'll see he omaged in a hundred of different anime. His whole story is very messed up anyway. - In Please save my earth there's an entire chapter revolving around Shion's tragic past. - Likewise in fruit basket there's a huge focus on male characters and their plights but particularly on Kyo Soma. There's a lot more of course. The bottom line anyway is that since there is a higher demand for shows that are focused on female characters, it's only natural that you'll see more tragic heroines, especially if you tend to watch that kind of anime. If you are into shoujo... I seriously doubt you think it that way.
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2012-12-29, 14:41
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Link #58 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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I take it we're defining a tragic character as one who suffers rather than using the more classical definition of a great person whose downfall is brought about by a flaw in their character?
As a male anime viewer, I'll admit I'm often more affected by what happens to female characters than male ones. However even with the girls I'm generally not overly sympathetic towards characters whom I consider to be weak, passive, and whiny. I tend to admire female characters who are strong and proactive and respond to adversity by fighting back. When one of those characters finally gets burned out or ends up having a breakdown, I tend to feel sympathetic. |
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2012-12-29, 14:59
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Link #59 |
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Absolute Haruhist!
ArtistJoin Date: Mar 2006
Age: 37
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Like synaesthetic has mentioned out above, Greek tragedies involve males much more than females.
I believe that there is a similar amount of tragedy portrayed in both genders, just that they are different. Female tragedies are often played out emotionally and have several emotional peaks that end with a largest peak. But male tragedies are played out by having the character rise extremely high and then dropped suddenly from the peak in the end. Female suffering seem to be constant suffering that pulls sympathy from the audience throughout while male tragedy has the audience sympathise only in the end when the character falls from the peak.
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2012-12-30, 18:03
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Link #60 |
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Sisterhood of the Desu
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: in a van by the river
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It's not just females as tragic, though it's the majority....
As much as I can't stand Evangelion, Shinji has it BAD. Kirigetsu(sp) from Fate/Zero Hei from Darker Then Black Ruoroni Kenshin All of the male protagionists from Key's shows....except Little Busters because I didn't see that all yet. The Shisengumi of Hakuoki... As for why females are the harbingers of tragedy, considering that most of the viewers are males, I guess it all ties back to the MOE thing: Isn't it supposed to mean that the viewers want to protect a character or something like that? |
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