2006-01-02, 19:34 | Link #41 | |
Always impatient
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Before entering the grand line, you can clearly see, in his words, that luffy and co. are aiming for one goal: getting enuff crew members for the treasure called One Piece. Each addition of a new member, is then a clear sign that luffy and co. were moving one step closer to this goal. And in his opinion, One Piece is the backbone that thread the storyline from the beginning, and you could clearly see the tension and power in those episodes. Nevertheless since the logan town and all the way to these days, have we been told anything about One Piece? No, sorry but we don't. In that guy's words, that's the problem -- the story of OP has become an multi-episodic adventure story, which has deviated from the "original design" at the outset. Why didn't Oda tell us what One Piece is? He asked. What Alabastan and Skytopia have anything to do with One Piece? He asked again, and we don't know the answer. To put all these together, we can see a pretty clear and lucid argument (i don't quite agree with it and I will offer my opinion later) First, the premises of OP is to find the damn treasure, and based on this, luffy went out there and looked for his nakama. But then, after he got a bunch of crews and set off, the basic premises of One piece the treasure seemed to have been totally forgotten, and the narrative of the story has changed since the entrance into the grandline, from one closedly focused on one single goal to a pretty much mindless wandering repeating the same format. Using (and expanding) the commentator's own analogy, imagine a boxer manga (like rocky) which supposedly tells the story of a young fighter wanna challenge the ultimate world champion. Does it make any sense to have forgotten the champion all together and linger on how the boxer fighting the others? No, a good storyteller should have the champion show up once a while, and remind us of the ultimate goal our hero is supposedly working on. In light of this, OP has thrown out the very first premises out of the windows, and side stories, like the meaning of D., ancient text and ultimate weapons etc., have rather dominated the story. But do they have anything to do with the treasure of One Piece? Yet again, we don't know. ********************************* You don't need to agree with what he said on this particular point, and I don't actually. He does have a point, but IMO his argument is closely related to how you view the treasure called One Piece. IMO, I don't think that treasure really exists -- One Piece is an experience and the journey itself. If that's how you think about One Piece is, I don't think you need to buy this lack-of-backbone argument. Still you need to answer one question: what's OP doing now? I really don't know where it is going. I will still watch it, but as I said in the previous post, there are a lot of problems with the story we have now, and Oda has to really do something to make it engaging again. BTW there is one logical problem a lot of people here always repeat : a lot of people find it good != it is good, or it will be called "fallacy by popularity". |
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2006-01-02, 21:05 | Link #42 | ||||
Shikachu
Join Date: Nov 2004
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The problem with the commentor is that he doesn't see the big picture and he isn't very perceptive. He isn't seeing the forest for the trees, so to speak. In the beginning, we know Luffy wants to find One Piece and become the pirate king. But the way the story is being shaped, it's becoming clear that this is more than just a simple treasure we're talking about. One Piece appears to be wrapped up in a missing period of history, tied with with the Poneglyphs, one which was found in Alabasta, another in Skypiea. You ask what Alabasta and Skypiea have to do with One Piece...well, obviously it has something to do with it, because Gol D. Roger went there also and left messages, so Luffy and Co. are on the right track, following Roger's footsteps. I guess maybe you want this to fit in the format of some 26 episode series where the there's only a small number of story arcs leading up to the conclusion. Well, it's not ending any time soon, so if they actually said what One Piece was right away, then what's the point of going on? A big part of the fun in the story is all the little clues being revealed as to what it is little by little. If you're not picking up on them, or think the story is straying from it's original purpose, than I'm afraid you must not be paying attention. BTW, you got the names to just about every island wrong. It's Loguetown, Skypiea, and Alabasta. :P Quote:
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The journey IS the most important part of the story, though. Quote:
But what else can I say, everyone has an opinion. I've seen criticism after criticism of LOTR as a book, but I still love it. It's an adventure story that is intended to entertain and bring out the child in us that loves adventure. One Piece does that for me, and that's all that matters. I wish you were enjoying it as much as I am. |
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2006-01-03, 00:36 | Link #43 | |||||
Always impatient
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Guess I need to be a bit more brutal.
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Geez. |
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2006-01-03, 01:58 | Link #45 |
Segundo Arrancar
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Wow one piece is really long, and doesnt look like its going end.
One Piece - 250+ And no Signs of Ending Detective Conan - 400+ Pokemon - 700+ Come on...It will never end cause they can make up stuff out of the blue Now back to the Water 7 Arc. Ive heard rumors, and I stopped at episode 249, But will Arlong return?
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2006-01-03, 02:47 | Link #46 | ||||||
Shikachu
Join Date: Nov 2004
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And I'm afraid you're taking this conversation way too personally and maybe you shouldn't read my posts if they're making you so upset that you feel the need to flame me. If this is how you attempt to get people to respect your opinion, you fail miserably. Quote:
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I don't know how concrete you want the clues to be right now. It seems like One Piece is at about the halfway point right now. What are you expecting me to say? I don't agree with Mr. Commentator on his first two points. He's entitled to his criticism. So are you. But then you open yourself up to criticism of your criticims. And criticisms of the criticisms of the criticisms (as you're doing now). I don't see why you are getting so pissed off about it. Welcome to internet discussion forums. Quote:
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2006-01-03, 03:08 | Link #47 | |||||
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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Chuixupu, please step aside, hold those thoughts, and allow me to bash this fellow for you...
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Ok first-off, Chuixupu didn't at all insult you or try to make you out to be a fool even if the major contention of your weak-a$$ debate is that we should listen to the "WTF-who cares" thoughts of some phantom commentator whose opinion you've already downplayed, and whose opinion holds no more weight than any of us here...Certainley not more than wingdarkness.... Quote:
How much shonen anime have you actually watched?? You don't need to be blown away by plot-points that seemed to be indiscriminatley planted in a storyline, you just need to understand or accept them...Many shonens with the episode count of OP has this problem aswell...You start off making a show and having a definite plan of how you want to attack it...The popularity of the show gets out of control and goes higher than you ever imagined...so as a director/creator you begin to lengthen the series by creating other arcs that more or less stand-alone, but to keep the original intentions of your goal alive you have no choice but to include plot-points that advance that overall goal...Now in some series it's done better than others, but it is indeed a necessary evil of a shonen anime that has a ridiculous amount of episodes and if done well isn't really a problem... I assume Skypiea is the biggest culprit of this design and I'll say again Skypiea is probably the most mentally-challenging arc in the series IMO...Besides the obvious great adventure of traveling to a cloud Island, there was the mystery of how part of Jaya Island became part of Skypiea...The history of Skypiea and the past of the Indians that protected the Gold Bell...The mystery of why the ancient language that is written on every island including on old Jaya Island...Gol D. visiting there and ofcourse the Polygolph Weapon, which was a foreshadowing of what we are seeing now...(Not to mention so much more that was visually and adventurously good, even little stuff like finding out why the "Bug-bears" were so huge to people who sailed under Skypiea was nice)...The comedy (Yes One Piece is comedy too don't forget) was probably the best during this arc... Now ofcourse I understand what you and your "commentator-sama" are saying, but the real question is, did I enjoy it?? And the answer is easily yes...If everything you suggested happened and it didn't end up being enjoyable and very dramatic in a tangent way, you would have a leg to stand on, but alas all you have is your opinion, which is as worthless or as good as anyone elses.... Quote:
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Again you did make some points worthy of discussion, but to lash out at someone whose as loyal and knowlegable about One Piece as "Chu-chan" just to look in the mirror and think you've accomplished something was too much for me to stand on the sidelines and let you continue... Quote:
Your criticisms of One Piece in limited areas are valid, but your smugness is not at all...As if everyone here was dumb or oblivious to the points you read about and thought would blow us all away...Furthermore to try and insult an badger someone who hasn't even attacked you in any personal context shows the true-goal of what you were trying to do in the first place...and that's shove your "epiphany" down our throats...Unfortuanatley "devils-fruit" tastes a bit better...
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2006-01-03, 11:13 | Link #48 | |||||||
Always impatient
Join Date: Jun 2004
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To Chuixupu: hey, poking fun at nonsense is never personal. If you manage to do it to me, feel free and I can take it To be really honest, Almost all of the people here -- and definitely you ARE one of them -- never really got my nerve big time in this OP thread, except a couple. But still, a lot of what many diehard supporters said about OP, a series I like and have rewatched for god sake I can't even remember how many times, just doesnt make any sense at all, even though I do find the people here usually are way less irritating than say Naruto and Bleach fans. If NoSanninwa didn't overprotect the Bleach thread, woo, I would turn that place into a living hell for those idiots.
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Also I don't think anyone put a gun at Oda's head to tell him how he should write a story, right? Maybe actually wingdarkness is Da One(TM) wearing his Italic high-heeled boots with a leather whip, standing next to Oda, whipping Oda like a dutiful S&M Queen (I assume you are playing the girl's role here, sorry if it is not the case irl) everytime he shows signs of deviation. That's why OP is over 400 chapters long without revealing anything important about the treasure and etc. after all these 8 years. Quote:
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Last edited by chucky; 2006-01-03 at 11:24. |
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2006-01-03, 16:33 | Link #49 |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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Edit: Passive agressive flame deleted by moderator
Peace... Now back to the Water 7 discussion...
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Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2006-01-03 at 21:49. Reason: Pointless flame deleted. Don't do this again. |
2006-01-03, 16:47 | Link #50 | |
Shikachu
Join Date: Nov 2004
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But no new episode until Sunday, and no new chapters in the manga for 2 weeks. Darn holiays. |
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2006-01-03, 19:33 | Link #51 | ||||
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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Aycaramba!! I would like to make it absolutely clear that in no way I am trying to dictate how Oda should tell his story. I'm simply not qualified. What I've done so far is to observe and react.
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Water 7 arc is following the same layout with Robin’s being the main focus of this arc, not the entire focus of the arc. The side story such as the Tom worker’s has already been tied to Robin. We entered into this arc after Aokiji tried to kill Robin. Usopp unknowingly is in the same train to Enies Lobby with Robin, meaning we can expect he will play a key role as Robin’s story unfolds. Everything points toward Robin’s being the central focus of this arc, so all the other plot elements will revolve around Robin in this arc just like it has been through out the series for every other arc and each of it’s central focus/subject. It’s not what *I* think the story should focus on, rather, the story has intended to focus on Robin from the beginning of this arc. What I have tried to say in my previous couple of posts that this time around in the arc up to 253, the plot seems to be draggy and delayed to warrant a lack of focus which is why I think length of an arc matters. Quote:
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P.S. Happy New Year everyone!
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2006-01-03, 21:30 | Link #52 |
Always impatient
Join Date: Jun 2004
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ok, I will follow Chuixupu's advice and back to Water 7 arc.
I don't think the arc is bad at all at the outset, but as Monir pointed out, the conflict between Usopp and Luffy, which was nicely setup, has now sunk to the background. I would say it would be better to see one whole arc is dedicated to focus exclusively on it, and I think that will be much better. Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2006-01-03 at 21:46. Reason: Pointless flame deleted. Don't do this again. |
2006-01-03, 21:45 | Link #53 | |
Weapon of Mass Discussion
Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
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2006-01-04, 02:07 | Link #54 | |||
Shikachu
Join Date: Nov 2004
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And as I said before, I think a big reason why the story seems to be dragging so much has a lot to do with Toei's purposeful dragging of the plot to keep the anime behind the manga. Things seem to go by a lot more quickly reading the manga. Quote:
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2006-01-04, 16:05 | Link #55 | |
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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2006-01-04, 22:58 | Link #58 |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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Hehe using my friends internet...just couldn't stay away...
Sorry NSW...as as usual I have a hard time containing myself... Chuixupu, maybe I should have left you to handle your own battle, but I felt I needed to jump in, hope I didn't make it worse for you...Wish I coulda saw the flame comeback though, I'm a fan of good ones^^ Anyways..everything else aside, because it seems every counterpoint to chucky's intial argument has been countered, I'd have to disagree with monir (yeah I know, we hardley ever see eye to eye)...One Piece's action is so well thought out, so creative, so stylistic at times...It's unlike anything else in any and has a look of it's own that can't be dublicated...Luffy (considering he's merely a rubberman) comes up with so many different techniques and suprises as the action intesifies...From using water bubbles as "Mizu-Luffy" xD vs. Crocodile, to letting the air out of his body to fight Eneru's trident and neutralize his mind-prediction skills...then to later use his arms and punch them against the Golden ship to create a "Mega-gatling-gun" were all great impromtu action... Even earlier battles with Kuro and Don Krieg were really good if not superficially entertaining...I don't know..can't recall alot of poor animation especially not in Arlong or Arabasta...Maybe a little in Skypiea, but I just don't see it...The action in OP (when there is an abundance of it) is soooo goood....I don't watch OP just because of the action, because the comedy and the drama is so strong at times...but without the wonderful action sequences One Piece wouldn't be One Piece at all, sorry...
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2006-01-04, 23:30 | Link #59 | |||
Shikachu
Join Date: Nov 2004
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It goes up and down. I think the biggest improvements have been after Skypiea. I sometimes wish they could go back and animate Skypiea over again. The animation is very poor at times and really doesn't do the original manga designs much justice. It's such a rich, imaginative world and they made it so bland. |
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2006-01-05, 05:24 | Link #60 | |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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There have been episodes here and there that have been below par in animation, but I haven't recognized a trend...atleast not enuff where it's obtusely obvious to me...
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