2016-07-31, 16:41 | Link #41 | |
Chicken or Beef?
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2016-07-31, 16:55 | Link #42 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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She went as far as making a contract with Crusche even though she had no obligation to restore subaru's mana gate whatsoever. Roswaal even commented how hard it has been for her to do that, and she brushed it off as a repayment for all the good deeds Subaru has done thus far. Her very first reaction when Subaru was facing Julius was out of concern for his well being. This is even more obvious considering her reactions to the other candidates aloof comments. Even after their their argument, she made arrangements with Crusche so that Felix still goes on with Subaru's treatment. And as I said before, She wanted to know why he fought Julius before talking about their promise (and considering what Puck said, this is akin to a crime for Spirit and Spirit users). That shows quite well that she has put her trust on Subaru on the line ahead of the principle of promise as a spirit user. Subaru never bothered explaining aside of "getting back at Julius", and even nailed the point about how emilia could never understand him, which is obvious because he doesn't bother explaining anything. And if you noticed her reaction, she was obviously hurt when Subaru was saying "it was all for her sake". And this is where their mutual trust turned into shambles because it was the same issue with Subaru: he didn't go as far as considering the person he has in front of him, that's why Emilia was obviously hurt when he didn't keep his promise, yet asked her to believe him (and remember that for THAT Emilia, only few days have passed since their first encounter). Even after that gap between them, Subaru couldn't explain properly why he helped her. This is the very important point: Emilia cannot see herself in Subaru in the way how he acted thus far due to the decrepencies between his actions and their relationship thus far. The devotion Subaru had for Emilia is rather a devotion targeted to "Emilia" as a whole, as in the combined individual who saved him in arc 1 and all other points combined, which is obviously not what happened for the current Emilia. It is as if he was acting like a lover with a girl who barely knows his name: there is a huge gap between both, and even with her efforts to understand him, Subaru did absolutely nothing to bridge such gap. Rem was touched by Subaru's heroism on a fleeting moment and could witness his action on the sidelines. Emilia's situation is completely different and it isn't even surprising that she wouldn't moved the same way as Rem was. Not because she is "worst girl", "selfish" or whatever you name her: she is on the receiving end of Subaru's "illogical" course of actions for days without any explanation or even footing in term of relationship.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2016-07-31 at 17:07. |
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2016-07-31, 17:42 | Link #43 | ||||
Chicken or Beef?
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If she's asking Subaru why he did that, then she never cared to try to understand his feelings for her. Subaru has snapped before Rem multiple times this arc, and just as bad if not worst in this episode. And she never turned her back on him the way Emilia did, Emilia went "bye bitch" the moment shit went uncomfortable for her. Emilia quickness to leave Subaru without really trying, pushed Subaru's decent into madness. Quote:
Subaru always put others before himself, this is a fact. You cannot argue this, if he cared more about himself, he would've ditched this shitstorm a long time ago. Rem realizes this, and that kindness is what won her over. Emilia should've noticed this too if she even cared to look. I was angry when she told Subaru that he was doing it for himself. I'm like you freaking serious? granted we as the audience see more, but still the guy has put his life on the line multiple times. But I digress, agree to disagree, if it comes down to it.
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2016-08-01, 10:58 | Link #44 | ||||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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And no, a mere good friend wouldn't go as far as comforting someone without prying on their circumstances if they didn't care about the latter. Quote:
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Emilia never questioned Subaru's devotion up until that very point. She is aware of the danger regarding the election and the issues it involves such as discrimination due to her blood heritage. That's the very reason why she cannot compute why Subaru is that hellbent with her. And no, it has been days, at most 1 week for them in that loop: Subaru and Rem helped the village on the fourth day just like usual, then we got 1-2 days of casual activities, then half a day spent to go to the capital then we got the election issue. You can't call that "few weeks" at all, which makes her relationship with Subaru quite short. This is why Emilia is completely puzzled by his behaviour because she needs to know the reason of that, especially that she didn't save Subaru's life spontaneously this time: she nursed him after he protected her against Elsa, but the fact she saved him from thugs doesn't count in that loop. Therefore, Emilia's situation is perfectly reasonable, even moreso after the person she trusted without fail (no suspicion towards him unlike Roswal, Rem and Ram) broke a promise. Quote:
-She was saved by someone who isn't supposed to know her at all. -The said guy volunteers to work as a butler despite he could ask for riches and all -Try VERY hard without telling why, on the verge of breaking -Save a whole village despite being a mere human and nearly breaking his own mana gate From Emilia's perspective, all Subaru's actions are definitely commendable, but there is absolutely nothing that would explain why he does that. Before their argument, Subaru never expressed his feelings nor explained himself at all, and she respected that. But after Julius incident which was life threatening for Subaru (either because Julius could potentially indict him for a death penalty or due to the abuse of his broken mana gate), it is no longer possible for her to let him do rash things without knowing why. Unlike Rem, she wasn't there most of the time, hence why her inability to understand Subaru is quite legit. Quote:
Her expression during their confrontation is quite telling: she isn't happy in doing that, and I sincerely don't know how you can even call that "bye bitch". This is even more obvious when Subaru finally found Emilia in ep17: she was more worried for the fact that he came back even though he is supposed to be treated by Fellis. So the whole point of leaving Subaru there was for his own good. Quote:
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Finally, Emilia is actually right regarding this point: again, Subaru hardly tells her anything. Rem is the only one who listen to Subaru when the latter finally explains he wants to save her the same way she saved him. But that doesn't count for her, exactly because it was impossible for her to know that. I honestly don't care about shipping wars and whatnot, but it just baffles me that some people have to create a fallacious narrative to prove "one girl is better than another".
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2016-08-01 at 11:24. |
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2016-08-01, 12:26 | Link #45 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Portugal
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Finally! Nice post by the way!! I agree Rem has being amazing in the last episodes (i would even say she indeed won the title for the best girl so far), but hating Emilia just because the MC wants her instead of Rem is a little bit ludicrous. Shipping wars clouds people's vision about certain things unfortunately!
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2016-08-01, 12:50 | Link #47 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Just to make my point straight: I won't hide I have a preference for Emilia, but that doesn't mean I have anything against Rem. To the contrary, Rem is pretty much the most active character in Re:Zero franchise that isn't Subaru and things would have been bleak if it wasn't for her support. They are pretty much 2 very likeable characters, no question about that.
Hell, if Subaru fell for her, I wouldn't bat an eye. That would simply work too considering Rem's strong points lately. Emphasis on that last word because love isn't always a matter of comparison, but also it also involves time, regardless of the "first girl/guy wins" or "longest relationship" trope. It is just the same in reality: some people crush will affect them so hard it won't change their mind even if other people believe they are a better match with someone else. Likewise, feelings can change over time as well. However, I just cannot agree with the sentiment of some people (be it AS or other social places like twitter) where that dissatisfaction regarding a certain pairing means the said character didn't deserve it and/or is worse than "best waifu/husbando" thing. Hell, we don't know if Emilia has feelings for Subaru or not, beside the fact she does care about him. That basically means there isn't really any confirmed "ship" for Subaru and Emilia (and no, I don't want any spoiler, thank you very much). Furthermore, while it is evident that Emilia's screentime is quite minimal compared to Rem, I don't see why this is a factor either when it comes to Subaru's feelings (which shouldn't be affected by the audience). Again, love at first sight, specific actions or traits etc can be much more powerful given certain situations, and Subaru has shown a lot of times his adoration for Emilia quite early in the game. Pretty much how Rem describes Subaru as his reason to die (as in, her time finally resumed), Subaru described Emilia as his savior even though she had no reason to help him considering the crisis at hand with the pendant. For someone who considers himself like a useless and idle neet, being saved this way was pretty much beyond awe inspiring for him, and she apparently fits his fetishes as well. Beyond people preference, I think it is best to trust an author when it comes about romance, even if there are series where author's preference could take precedence over "natural relationship" as some people say. It doesn't mean we should have a blind faith whatsoever, but if the narrative tread that subject properly, then it is all good.
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2016-08-01, 14:18 | Link #48 | |||||||
Chicken or Beef?
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So yes, it was a few weeks. Quote:
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She literally went emotionally blank when he started yelling at her. Like she didn't want to put up with it anymore. That's why I said she went "bye bitch" If only she tried, if she didn't turn her back on him, if she just stayed and kept and talking to him, Subaru wouldn't end up in the state that he was in. Rem kept pushing, when she could've easily walked away the same way Emilia did. Quote:
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You're right, Emilia didn't spend much time with Subaru, she doesn't know Subaru as well as Rem, Subaru doesn't know Emilia at all as well. Meaning, Emilia only cares about Subaru because she's a nice person. I still don't get Subaru's extreme attachment to Emilia, I really don't. They barely spent any time together, they really don't know each other all that well. Subaru's attachment is extremely superficial.
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2016-08-01, 14:56 | Link #51 | |
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Rem may have done more for Subaru because she has more screen-time then Emilia but the impression that Emilia left on Subaru has bigger effect on him then Rem. That doesn't negate the fact he does care about Rem but more of who was first in trying to help him when he first started to deal with his pain. |
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2016-08-01, 14:59 | Link #52 | |||||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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For someone who don't have much characterization, Emilia was consistently shown as someone who care about others and have ambition of equality even if it means her reputation is put to the drain. For someone you consider a "plot device", she has actually more stuff than that. Quote:
There wasn't any indication regarding the time he needed to recover from his fight with the demons, and even so, that shouldn't even factor in their relationship because he was unconscious. No matter how long he is bed ridden, that doesn't make him magically closer to anyone. Quote:
There isn't any instance where his love was made cut clean whatsoever in front of Emilia herself. Quote:
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As much as it hurt Subaru, that was a necessary slap in the face because he doesn't realize his own place, that's why he only figured out after so long. If he was self aware of his own weakness, he wouldn't have failed with Crusche and co. Quote:
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The first arc interactions were plenty obvious regarding that point as well as their early interactions in arc 2. You are just considering your own preference instead of considering Subaru's perspective there. Kindness towards him isn't the only factor. Like flames said, Subaru still cares about Rem, but the impact of Emilia's actions and behaviour affected him way more. Simple as that. Considering what Puck said in this episode, it is more like his own decision considering he can't imagine a world without her. In fact, it is possible that the contract forbid him to destroy the world. Another possibility is that the contract allow him freedom to do whatever he wants should she die.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2016-08-01 at 15:21. |
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2016-08-01, 17:29 | Link #53 | |||||
Chicken or Beef?
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And it's not just him being unconscious, he spent a great deal of time in most of the time working as a butler. There's roughly a 2 week time span from his respawn point to when shit hits the fan. Quote:
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In the end, we might as well agree to disagree. We probably won't see eye to eye on the matter being on opposite ends of the spectrum.
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2016-08-01, 17:55 | Link #54 | ||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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And it isn't like Emilia was happy to be discriminated this way, but showing balls there? hardly a good choice. In fact, I don't see how you can even call her naive at this point: she immediately figured out it would go dicey if Subaru follows her during that peculiar situation by outright stating "you won't like that". Quote:
She also has a good composure considering she could deal with Elsa without doing anything rash like going all out with Puck. She could easily ignore the likes of Subaru who was a stranger to her etc and bomb everything, but didn't. She also has a good intuition and understanding when it comes to people, that's why she trusted Subaru quite early but also figured out that allowing him to be in the castle would lead to a huge backlash to him. That requires actual understanding of politics, etiquette and prediction to what people might do. And that part also has shown consideration from her when it comes to Subaru because the one thing she didn't want him to do was to push himself again despite he isn't in top shape whatsoever. Being merely nice would mean to indulge other people whims so not to frustrate them whatsoever. Being considerate involves more than being nice: it requires actual awareness of the situation and to say "no" when it is needed. That's more than just being nice. But then again, what's the problem of being "just" nice? Is that a sin for someone to like a person who is nice? I would also argue that Rem is "just" nice with such criteria (along with a certain guilt regarding Ram), but I personally think she is also much more than that. Quote:
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Also, flirting and confessing are 2 different things. Again, there is no single moment where he was shown serious when he was flirting with her. Remember how Emilia was often laughing when Subaru was going all otaku mode? That illustrates how she sees his antics as part of his personality. Acting like a charmer doesn't always drive the point accross, especially in a narrative like that. Quote:
And as much as I also believe Reinhardt is a nice guy (or maybe too much), that's absolutely not the point here, especially the context is arguably different. If you want to argue any further, I have no issue whatsoever. But please drop the passive aggressive stance, this is childish and toxic for a proper discussion.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2016-08-01 at 19:04. |
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2016-08-01, 17:59 | Link #55 |
Dictadere~!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.
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I think you're confusing "blandness" with "lack of information", which was Klashikari's point I think. A character that just showed up isn't inherently bland, merely undescribed. The same would presumably go for characters who haven't had as much screen time as others.
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2016-08-01, 19:04 | Link #56 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Emilia feels nothing for Subaru? But what about all the casual flirting? What about all the unnecessary caring for him? What about all the worrying she does for him? What about her disappointment at his behavior? 'She feels nothing for him' my ass.
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2016-08-01, 21:25 | Link #57 | |||||||||
Chicken or Beef?
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I'm more than certain he got the point across as to what a date was. His explanation was flimsy, but at the end of his exhausting explanation, she finally got it and accepted it. Quote:
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I'm a native new yorker, I just have an aggressive tone, it's just how I am. Nature and all that shit, don't mean anything with it.
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2016-08-02, 04:26 | Link #58 | |||||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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The fact you don't care about her is your own preference and that's about it. Quote:
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She was outright seen by the other candidates and knights that she wanted to stop that duel even though it was merely a mock battle and that it was Subaru at fault here. So no, she clearly was prioritizing his well being there. Quote:
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Then again, what's wrong with being nice? That's just like Asuras said: you are confusing "bland" and "lack of information". You don't know much about her, hence why you don't care much about her. That's fair, but I believe it is quite silly to complain "being just nice" is a fault when it comes to appreciation for a character, be it the audience or another character in the series. Quote:
In Rem's case, his actions and his open comment regarding his stench were enough to prove he has nothing to do with the witch. It isn't like the hatred itself was towards him, but towards a specific group. The moment she realizes he isn't part of that cult, she has no reason to hate him whatsoever. In Emilia's case, there is still absolutely nothing that would warrant someone who barely know her for few days/weeks to help her to the point of self destruction. We are talking about someone who was always persecuted for being an half elf and who encountered a guy who never interacted with her prior elsa's incident and went as far as nearly dying several times right from the get go. This is quite alarming when the said guy never tells her his reasons and go worse over time: she knows she is the cause of his behaviour but doesn't understand the reason for it. Quote:
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And again, there is nothing wrong for someone to be attracted by such kind of kindness. Quote:
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2016-08-02, 06:16 | Link #59 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
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This discussion is getting rather hard to read. Walls of text quoting other walls of text.
I'm not even sure what either side's stance is anymore. Is one side saying she is a shitty terrible person who doesn't care about anyone other than herself? Or are they just saying they don't know her that very well? It's hard to tell anymore. |
2016-08-02, 06:35 | Link #60 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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That's why I had to resort to multiple quotes. The subject has split into several points such as 1) bland character 2) doesn't understand Subaru's reasons 3) does not care about subaru 4) no idea why subaru would like her.
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