AnimeSuki Forums

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2016-09-02, 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Vietnam was only able to do so because there was always good old US of A to keep China in check.

Take them out of the equation and even Vietnam will have no choice in the end but to start openly trading with China and submit to any of their demands - be it economical or political.

That assumes that China would continue to expand forever... But as we saw with the fall of the Japanese bust, it happens to everyone. China is not positioned to become a superpower, it worries too much about its own internal politics.

Yes, America is weakening and China is strengthening. But trying to extrapolate that towards infinity would get you inaccurate results.

Ithekro · 2016-09-02, 05:37

The Vietnamese stopped the Chinese while Vietnam was an enemy of the United States back in the 1970s.

Kakurin · 2016-09-02, 05:42

In modern days, unless there is a clear-cut gigantic power-difference (think Iraq vs US), no country will go out trying to subjugate another by force. The costs are too high.

Sheba · 2016-09-02, 06:29

China also see SEA as commercial partners as much they do for the rest of the world. They are not pants-on-head stupid to go C&C Red Alert on the rest of Asia.

Cosmic Eagle · 2016-09-02, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Vietnam was only able to do so because there was always good old US of A to keep China in check.
.

Centuries of history since the Mongol empire disagree with you

Brother Coa · 2016-09-02, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Centuries of history since the Mongol empire disagree with you

Are you reffering to time they were under French or Japanese or Americans? And also not vasals of Chinese and Mongols?

Vietnam only got real independance in 1975 and had it ever since. Sure China will lose a lot in a direct was against them, but seeing how China eill become supreme force in the region in due time Vietnam will have it better and more profitable to cooperate than to poke eastern dragon.

Sheba · 2016-09-02, 12:47

You should just read up a bit about the Chinese, Vietnamese and Mongols instead of sticking to your cartoonish videogame-like juvenile view of the world.

Brother Coa · 2016-09-02, 13:14

You mean this?

Sure looks very accurate to what I said above.
And also I do not harbor false hope that USA will remain superpower forever, like many do here.
Like Rome and Mongols and Britains before them they will crumble in due time ,the question is only how much it will take.
And right now China seems like suitable power to replace them, unless something happen in meantime to seriously topple them.

Draco Spirit · 2016-09-03, 17:38

In all honesty China got some serous internal issues (due to it's weak political system) that could flair up in very bad way if it got hit by a Great Depression scale of economical crises, so I don't consider it overtaking the USA as a given to be honest. Through I do fully expect for the foreseeable future its relative power going to only go upwards.

I will give China it dues through, it managed massive economical reforms in a relative short space of time, so the idea of it making enough political reform to protect itself from a serous economical downturn isn't of the cards either, I just don't see much will to do so at the moment.

Eisdrache · 2016-09-09, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

You mean this?

Sure looks very accurate to what I said above.

How?

I do not know much about the history of mongols or Vietnam, so please elaborate.

Cosmic Eagle · 2016-09-11, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Are you reffering to time they were under French or Japanese or Americans? And also not vasals of Chinese and Mongols?

Vietnam only got real independance in 1975 and had it ever since. Sure China will lose a lot in a direct was against them, but seeing how China eill become supreme force in the region in due time Vietnam will have it better and more profitable to cooperate than to poke eastern dragon.

Yet I don't see Vietnamese suddenly having Texan culture which is what you seemed to be implying. Nor is it so easy for China to turn Vietnam into a new province even in just 50 years. They failed in Tibet and Xinjiang, what makes you think they can subjugate a sovereign nation just like that, let alone all of East and South-East Asia?

And also, the vassal system is not as simple as it seems at first glance. Imperial China left Vietnam alone because force did not work against them and instead ended up trading normally...."vassal" usually being just a term to make some emperors feel superior. You have attempts by various Chinese emperors to annex Vietnam but they all failed eventually. And these days, good luck trying to wage a war of aggression in a nominally stable part of the world without it turning into a black hole that will be more pain than its worth (Crimea and East Ukraine don't count since those regions actually WANT to join with Russia)

MrTerrorist · 2017-02-15, 10:05

Kim Jong-nam death: Malaysia police hold female suspect

For those new to the story, Kim Jong-un's half-brother, Kim Jong-nam, the one who was caught trying to go to Disneyland Japan years ago, was killed at Kuala Lumpur International Airport by an unknown woman.

South Korea suspects Kim Jong-nam was killed under orders by his younger brother as the former went into exiled under Chinese protection and criticized the new North Korean regime and his brother.

Cosmic Eagle · 2017-02-15, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Kim Jong-nam death: Malaysia police hold female suspect

For those new to the story, Kim Jong-un's half-brother, Kim Jong-nam, the one who was caught trying to go to Disneyland Japan years ago, was killed at Kuala Lumpur International Airport by an unknown woman.

South Korea suspects Kim Jong-nam was killed under orders by his younger brother as the former went into exiled under Chinese protection and criticized the new North Korean regime and his brother.

I wonder what this says about the safety at KLIA.... It's an international airport that's supposed to be heavily guarded after all. And isn't the budget terminal the point where you board the flight which has even more security?

Toukairin · 2017-02-15, 16:25

And that's not to say how many bodyguards he must have had with him knowing there might be an attempt against his life. No matter how you see it, everyone did a lousy job out there.

Key Board · 2017-02-15, 19:42

killed with toxin from a spray.. hmm..

Ithekro · 2017-02-15, 19:46

Over Maced.

AnimeFan188 · 2017-02-16, 03:12

China deploying troops at North Korea border
after assassination:

"The assassination of Kim Jong Un's older half-brother at an airport in Malaysia has placed
China on alert, and Beijing may have deployed more troops at its border with North Korea
in case of a contingency."

See:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...l&utm_medium=9

=================================

Uncertainty stalks China-N Korea ties with ‘assassination’
of Kim Jong-un’s pro-Beijing half-brother:

"China and North Korea are headed for another round of tensions and uncertainty if the
death of Kim Jong-nam is confirmed as an assassination by agents of his half-brother,
North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, diplomatic observers said.

Kim Jong-nam and his executed uncle Jang Sung-taek had close ties with China, and an
assassination would no doubt irk Beijing, analysts said."

See:

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplo...assination-kim

Toukairin · 2017-02-16, 16:14

The sad part is that China won't have the balls to nail it hard against North Korea though.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2017-02-16, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toukairin

The sad part is that China won't have the balls to nail it hard against North Korea though.

I genuine believe that sometime in the future, maybe way after my own lifetime, China would end up chopping off a chunk of NK as a buffer zone and give the rest to South Korea. The chunk of NK would be too small to survive on its own and would be entirely reliant on China, and be a Chinese territory in all but name. And the rest would be given to South Korea under the terms that the US military leave.

This is the only way I can see the Korean war truly end, and that every side is happy about other than the NK government.

Ithekro · 2017-02-16, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I genuine believe that sometime in the future, maybe way after my own lifetime, China would end up chopping off a chunk of NK as a buffer zone and give the rest to South Korea. The chunk of NK would be too small to survive on its own and would be entirely reliant on China, and be a Chinese territory in all but name. And the rest would be given to South Korea under the terms that the US military leave.

This is the only way I can see the Korean war truly end, and that every side is happy about other than the NK government.

And honestly no one in the outside world cares about if the NK government being happy.

2016-09-02, 05:37	Link #42
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	The Vietnamese stopped the Chinese while Vietnam was an enemy of the United States back in the 1970s. __________________

2016-09-02, 05:42	Link #43
Kakurin 大佐 Join Date: Jun 2013	In modern days, unless there is a clear-cut gigantic power-difference (think Iraq vs US), no country will go out trying to subjugate another by force. The costs are too high. __________________

2017-02-15, 10:05	Link #52
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	Kim Jong-nam death: Malaysia police hold female suspect For those new to the story, Kim Jong-un's half-brother, Kim Jong-nam, the one who was caught trying to go to Disneyland Japan years ago, was killed at Kuala Lumpur International Airport by an unknown woman. South Korea suspects Kim Jong-nam was killed under orders by his younger brother as the former went into exiled under Chinese protection and criticized the new North Korean regime and his brother. __________________

2017-02-15, 19:42	Link #55
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	killed with toxin from a spray.. hmm.. __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2017-02-15, 19:46	Link #56
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	Over Maced. __________________

2016-09-02, 06:29	Link #44
Sheba Shitpost Gremlin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	China also see SEA as commercial partners as much they do for the rest of the world. They are not pants-on-head stupid to go C&C Red Alert on the rest of Asia.

2016-09-02, 12:47	Link #47
Sheba Shitpost Gremlin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	You should just read up a bit about the Chinese, Vietnamese and Mongols instead of sticking to your cartoonish videogame-like juvenile view of the world.

2016-09-02, 13:14	Link #48
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	You mean this? Sure looks very accurate to what I said above. And also I do not harbor false hope that USA will remain superpower forever, like many do here. Like Rome and Mongols and Britains before them they will crumble in due time ,the question is only how much it will take. And right now China seems like suitable power to replace them, unless something happen in meantime to seriously topple them.

2016-09-03, 17:38	Link #49
Draco Spirit Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013	In all honesty China got some serous internal issues (due to it's weak political system) that could flair up in very bad way if it got hit by a Great Depression scale of economical crises, so I don't consider it overtaking the USA as a given to be honest. Through I do fully expect for the foreseeable future its relative power going to only go upwards. I will give China it dues through, it managed massive economical reforms in a relative short space of time, so the idea of it making enough political reform to protect itself from a serous economical downturn isn't of the cards either, I just don't see much will to do so at the moment.

2017-02-15, 16:25	Link #54
Toukairin Banned Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: A city with a small mountain in the middle	And that's not to say how many bodyguards he must have had with him knowing there might be an attempt against his life. No matter how you see it, everyone did a lousy job out there.

2017-02-16, 03:12	Link #57
AnimeFan188 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	China deploying troops at North Korea border after assassination: "The assassination of Kim Jong Un's older half-brother at an airport in Malaysia has placed China on alert, and Beijing may have deployed more troops at its border with North Korea in case of a contingency." See: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...l&utm_medium=9 ================================= Uncertainty stalks China-N Korea ties with ‘assassination’ of Kim Jong-un’s pro-Beijing half-brother: "China and North Korea are headed for another round of tensions and uncertainty if the death of Kim Jong-nam is confirmed as an assassination by agents of his half-brother, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, diplomatic observers said. Kim Jong-nam and his executed uncle Jang Sung-taek had close ties with China, and an assassination would no doubt irk Beijing, analysts said." See: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplo...assination-kim

2017-02-16, 16:14	Link #58
Toukairin Banned Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: A city with a small mountain in the middle	The sad part is that China won't have the balls to nail it hard against North Korea though. Last edited by Toukairin; 2017-02-16 at 19:54.