Turn A Gundam "Dark/Black History" Discussion

[Braveeno]

Originally Posted by Gundam888

And that why it is not canon because it does not follow the physics to make it canon.

Bandai/Sunrise says the Dark History is official canon. If they want their fictional series to ignore real life physics and logic, they have the right to do that and all we can do is smile and nod.

Their authority on all things Gundam trumps your opinion.

[Gundam888]

No it has to follow the rules sense it uses it no but,s

[StrikeFreedomV2]

Originally Posted by Gundam888

No it has to follow the rules sense it uses it no but,s

Deal with it, fictional works don't abide to physics or real life rules. Now please stop repeating yourself yourself

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Pretty much this.

Dark History is a flimsy connection at best (for series other than UC/RC, CC & FC(?)). And why do they insist in doing this anyway? What’s wrong with different universes? Each of them is already rich with their own setting & technology. It’s not like tying all series together this way will boost any kind of Gundam merchandise sales. Those Gunpla collectors/modellers (like me) and video game players won’t even give a damn whether all series are connected or not. Storywise, most audience I know only care about the quality of the individual series/timeline. Heck, look at how successful Final Fantasy franchise’s multiverse-approach during Square’s golden days (before they became Square Enix). Also, like SonicSP said above: “And Capcom is also smart enough to know when to make exceptions for certain series”. Gundam 00 & Wing, among others, could use this treatment cause as far as I can remember, their original continuity doesn’t have a “dark, mysterious & apocalyptic past” like X, G(?) and AGE do.

Really been thinking on this at the back of my mind for some time so might as well just post it now.

Personally, from a past perspective, I think 00 doesn't really fit in the middle or in Black History as you said (as in nothing about a bad past is mentioned in any parts of the show or materials; it is still possible under the very very broad handwave conditions that is Dark History) but I think its "future side" probably fits well with Dark History since it's probably the only Gundam series to go in some depth about actual aliens and even colony ships going around and finding new civilizations and making contact with them.

Storyline-wise from what has actually been presented in the show, it probably fits best at the start of Black History rather than the middle (even though it isn't really since Sunrise already said so; they're just leaving UC at the start and Turn A at end for symbolic reasons while also giving them free license to write whatever story they want in between those series).

I reckon things went very wrong at some point. They probably started producing mobile weapons again once they find some civilization they cannot reason with. Perhaps Innovation has some problems that are only apparent after a few generations. Considering the long lifespan of an Innovator (twice as long as a normal human), it may be awhile before they become obvious.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

^ Yeah, I mostly agree with your points. If anything, 00 should be the start of the Dark History due to the space exploration & interaction with aliens which supposed to have major influence in the origin of Turn-X.

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I reckon things went very wrong at some point. They probably started producing mobile weapons again once they find some civilization they cannot reason with. Perhaps Innovation has some problems that are only apparent after a few generations. Considering the long lifespan of an Innovator (twice as long as a normal human), it may be awhile before they become obvious.

Yes, if we abide by the Dark History rules, things went really wrong in each timeline that forced the Moonlight Butterfly to happen.

Now I'm curious to see the process of how the UC/RC people build Turn-A after they found Turn-X. That is one of the things that interest me in G-Reco. Will they show both mechas and their origins? And at what period the UC people built space elevators (is it after the events of Victory Gundam/Crossbone Ghost)? There's so much I want to know that I can't hardly wait. But I'll probably need to be patient and deal with the pirate shenanigans. Though I'll certainly be disappointed if they decides not to touch or mentioned Turn-A or Turn-X at all. Yes, I know this series started not as a Gundam series but now that they've decided that it is, I hope they'll go all the way and make the connection with Turn-A series.

[monster]

Assuming Reconguista won't be the only show set in the RC calendar, I think it's better if it stays away from referencing Turn A, but rather focused on the transition from UC.

Unless, of course, Turn A was already built and caused the end of UC.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by monster

Assuming Reconguista won't be the only show set in the RC calendar, I think it's better if it stays away from referencing Turn A, but rather focused on the transition from UC.

Eh, those can co-exist well. G-Reco can do both (assuming this will be the only show set in RC like Turn-A being the only show set in CC). All you need is good writing.

[Rising Dragon]

IIRC G-Reco mentioned Ameria somewhere, so there's already one Turn-A reference to it. So perhaps G-Reco isn't that far off from Turn A...

[SonicSP]

Considering it's also by Tomino and probably the first Gundam show with strong links to an older era, I guess it shouldn't be too surprising.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

assuming this will be the only show set in RC like Turn-A being the only show set in CC

That would be lame, but yes, if this is the only RC show, and Tomino still wants to connect everything, then it'd be nice to have Turn A/X be present or at least hinted at outside of a CC show.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

IIRC G-Reco mentioned Ameria somewhere, so there's already one Turn-A reference to it. So perhaps G-Reco isn't that far off from Turn A...

I think that kind of reference is fine either way. I was thinking something more substantive, like giving more info on Turn A/X's history.

[Kaito 1412]

I don't understand why everything has to be connect in the first place? Why is Tomino doing this?

[Rising Dragon]

Because Gundam was, initially, his story.

[Kaito 1412]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Because Gundam was, initially, his story.

But he left Gundam. And the Gundam brand has been passed around a few times now. Each director and his team gave their unique spin to the core premise (which I know Tomino created, albeit with the help of Hajime Yatate) But now he got do a Gundam again and everything that he was't part of has to be connected? Why? What is the point of connecting all different timelines?

I don't really have a problem with any of this btw, I don't see the purpose but I'm fine with it since it's not really undermining anything that was established by Seed, 00 or Age. And of course nothing will keep future SEED or 00 project from simply ignoring all of this if it conflicts with any future projects.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Kaito 1412

I don't understand why everything has to be connect in the first place? Why is Tomino doing this?

Because all of the 90s was a giant Gundam fandom hate war with UC fans and AU fans all hating on each other and saying how bad each others' shows were. Like many things that he does with Turn A, Tomino probably came up with this to either troll the fans who did that or just generally mess with their obsession with trying to make sense of everything.

[Gundam888]

No there's no buts it is not canon

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Gundam888

No there's no buts it is not canon

Look man, I know you don’t like Dark History (believe me, you’re not alone in this thread). But it is official. You have to accept that first before criticizing the thing.

Let me give you an example: if Sunrise/Bandai pointed at a horse and said that it’s a Gundam then that horse is officially a Gundam. But being official doesn’t mean it can’t be stupid, and we can criticize on that stupidity without denying its official status. Look at Victory Gundam, it has some really stupid shit, but it’s official nonetheless. So criticizing Dark History after accepting its official status is more healthy than being in denial.

[Rising Dragon]

Plus your constant screaming of "non-canon" is getting incredibly annoying. We get it. You don't think it's canon. Give it a rest already.

[Gundam888]

to me for for dark history to be official you have to follow the rules of there physics that there using
which dark history does not there for it is not canon.

[S.Freedom]

Oi with the repetition...

You constantly harping that it's not canon isn't going to make it suddenly no longer canon. Bandai/sunrise probably gives less than two sh!t's weather or not you personally think Dark/Black history is canon.

Your constant harping is coming off like the boy who cried wolf or said the sky is falling. Sooner or later people are going to start ignoring what you say. Even if what your saying winds up being the truth about something.

[shadow1296]

the only problem that i have is, the fact A. 00 is not the start of the timeline because its era is Anno Domini and B. the world that Mobile fighter G Gundam set up can't exist in an era after a Moonlight butterfly Reset because the manmade landmarks of the countries they have in there are still there heck the act those countries even exist after a Moonlight butterfly reset would be an impossibility in itself