2010-09-17, 01:59 | Link #582 |
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^Actually Ace did not have perfect control of his powers. Crocodile emphasized that true mastery of a Logia allows for a permanent intangibility in the face of the unknown. Specifically, you cannot be surprised any more. Smoker and Ace were both surprised by Luffy during the initial chapters of the Alabasta Arc, and consequently were both hurt by his sudden comedic entrance/attack. With Crocodile, though, he emphasized that it is impossible to attack a Logia user in this way once they had attained true mastery of their fruit.
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2010-09-17, 03:47 | Link #584 | |
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can't say about his level of mastery compared to Croc's though Ace = fire, Aokiji = ice .. plain as that .. no blue shifts, no plasma, no 0K - that's too much even for OP .. and Akainus fruit is stronger (in 1v1) then both of them, but that's ok, Akainu is going to one of the main antagonists in the '2-nd part' of OP, he needs that power |
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2010-09-17, 04:08 | Link #585 | |||
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We also saw Whitebeard stab a piece of Akainu's magma and turn it into solid rock by simply blowing at it, do you likewise presume that Whitebeard could have done the same to Akainu himself (turn him into solid rock by blowing at him)?
Akainu evaporated a block of ice, which is well and good, but we can't take that as conclusive proof that he would be able to do the same to Aokiji, since the block of ice was just a block of ice - it wasn't ice that was actively maintained by Aokiji's chilling power. Quote:
Regardless, Aokiji, in my opinion, has been the most impressive character in terms of Devil Fruit power. For example, when first introduced, he froze dozens of square miles of the sea into solid ice almost instantly. Quote:
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That being said, I think Aokiji's powers is more dangerous to face than Akainu's or Kizaru's, because while you can tank a magma fist or a laser, it's a bit harder to soldier on with a frozen body - even as a top tier (ala Jozu). |
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2010-09-17, 04:49 | Link #586 | ||||||
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Kizaru's hits are like sword pierces .. but he can do a lot of them .. and of course that speed of his Jozu was distracted long enough for Aokiji to do Ice Time on his arm .. I'm pretty sure the regular instant Ice Ball can be broken by regular force - be it just strength or shockwaves from WB's fruit .. pretty common theme - something strong is frozen in a block of ice (not the insides, just the outside) and then it's just shattered .. but not just anyone could do it - probably the likes of Garp, Sengoku, WB, Jozu (again - the Ice Ball, not Ice Time) .. or possibly armor-haki could help breaking it but you're right about Ice Time - it's really dangerous, just like Croc's Death Touch .. pretty much no way to guard or counter (except having flame powers .. I'm reasonably sure both Ace & Akainu could thaw themselves out of Ice Time .. just speculation of course) and the only option is to avoid and the only 'weakness' is that Aokiji has to personally touch the opponent + it takes a few seconds at least to work |
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2010-09-17, 06:33 | Link #587 | ||||
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Consequently, if Ace and Aokiji were unable to overpower each others element in a one panel clash, I expect it either was because they were equally powerful with their Devil Fruits, or because the difference in Devil Fruit strength wasn't significant enough to have an impact so quickly (which I believe). Quote:
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2010-09-17, 08:09 | Link #589 | |
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Frankly, Ace is quite inferior to all of the admirals. In terms of battle experience and DF mastery, the admirals have Ace beat by a decent margin. Just because Ace's fire may be somewhat effective against Aokiji's ice, it doesn't automatically mean he would fight equally with said admiral in a prolonged fight. Aokiji is amongst the elites; Ace isn't. DF match-up is only going to do so much for Ace. We also have to account for haki. VA's and above can all use haki, whereas Ace never showed himself adept at using it.
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2010-09-17, 09:32 | Link #590 | |
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I was talking ONLY about DF's
they clashed and Aces fire was equal to Aokijis ice who of the 2 users would win in a 1v1 fight is an entire matter altogether and it was used to sum up my 'logic' : ice = fire + lava > fire = lava > ice .. although lava > ice should be a plain fact (as opposed to lava > fire), so I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion it's irrelevant anyway even if Akainu can burn through Aokijis insides like he did with Ace (which I believe he absolutely can .. that was the original point) - it doesn't mean he'd get the chance to do so if they fought Quote:
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2010-09-17, 10:27 | Link #591 | |
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Taking their clash as proof that Ace's fire power is as strong as Aokiji's chilling power would be similar to assuming Crocodile's strength, speed and hand-to-hand skills is equal to Mihawk's and Doflamingo's since he matched them equally in his one-panel clashes with them.
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That being said, I think a fight between Aokiji and Akainu would be decided by individual attributes (e.g. physical prowess, Haki aptitude, martial skill, Devil Fruit proficiency etc.) rather than natural Devil Fruit superiority (like Akainu vs. Ace). |
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2010-09-17, 11:58 | Link #592 | |||
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2) Croc parried Mihawk with his hook - I merely assume that Croc is proficient enough to do that .. but since we know Mihawk is the greater swordsman - that's probably all he can do the big difference here is that in the first case it's merely a matter of how hot/cold the fruit itself is capable of being .. in the second it's skill Quote:
1) see above underlined statement 2) Akainu evaporated Aokiji's iceberg instantly .. now I assume the iceberg was made of mere ice - the same ice that Aokiji himself is made of .. while there is a difference in that Aokiji generates ice - the difference in power (humongous iceberg gone in a flash, no chance ) makes me reasonably sure the same would happen to Aokiji tbh if Aokiji can freeze up Akainu or at least keep his lava attacks at bay the same as Aces (which shouldn't be the case because Aokijis and Aces fruits clashed equally, even if in one panel, whereas Akainus and Aces obviously didn't) then, in my eyes, that makes Aokiji kinda broken and overpowered - not even extreme heat can win against him (which should be ice-man's #1 enemy) + all those extra uses we discussed above on a side-note - how low would the temperature have to be to freeze a constantly flowing stream of generic lava ? |
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2010-09-17, 12:17 | Link #593 |
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Bah, nothing about a character's strength can be shown in one panel. That's like Blackbeard D. Kuma's claim that Jinbei was inordinately stronger than Luffy simply because it took one hit from Jinbei to lay out the half-dead Luffy. Nothing can be determined from one panel, or even one page. So, let's leave it at that.
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2010-09-17, 12:55 | Link #596 | |||
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That being said, I don't think Aokiji would be able to freeze Akainu, considering I think they are equally powerful in their respective Devil Fruit and would stalamate each other in that aspect. Quote:
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If Akainu can overcome Aokiji's extreme coldness (which would be the enemy to his magma), wouldn't that make him broken and overpowered by your reasoning? |
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2010-09-17, 13:17 | Link #597 | |||
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this is of course based on the assumption that Aces and Aokijis fruits clash equally, which I firmly believe and which makes perfect sense WB blowing on that magma rock and cooling it was really over the top I think, even for OP Quote:
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and lava overpowering ice (equal quantities) makes much more sense to me then vice versa I noticed we're starting to repeat ourselves |
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2010-09-17, 14:53 | Link #599 | |
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