Madoka Magica - Character Discussion - Kyubei

[Sageblink]

I'm no defender of Q-B, but maybe the "thing" he is incubating is not THAT evil. Dharma and MeoTwister pointed out that an incubator if to create an ideal environnement.

If Q-B is some sort of device, getting the grief seeds could make him created something immune to despair, sorrow, etc. Maybe his purpose is to eliminate those feelings from humanity, at the cost of some girls who experiment the full extend of the said feelings.

But it is very unlikely. Gathering such powerful yet negative emotions / karma can't really lead to something positive. But, maybe... Who knows (yet).

[Sekirei07]

I more wonder if QB has a creator or is there someone QB is working for.

[gsilver]

Another thing, this time (oddly) pro-Kyubey:

It's been said on this show that for every positive thing, there's an equal negative reaction. A wish, no doubt, would cause some massive negative reaction elsewhere.

At the same time, if the statement is correct, any horrible event that happens, under that system, would be counteracted by positive events elsewhere.

This type of karmatic system could ultimately make Kyubey a neutral force.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Sageblink

I'm no defender of Q-B, but maybe the "thing" he is incubating is not THAT evil. Dharma and MeoTwister pointed out that an incubator if to create an ideal environnement.

If Q-B is some sort of device, getting the grief seeds could make him created something immune to despair, sorrow, etc. Maybe his purpose is to eliminate those feelings from humanity, at the cost of some girls who experiment the full extend of the said feelings.

Interesting speculation. I mean, we've been working under the assumption that he is incubating grief seeds. But really, a soul gem is much like a double-edged sword. It can hurt you as well as your opponent, but it should go without saying how to best use it without hurting yourself. If the only way to beat back the evil creatures is by taking up the sword, then the sword itself is not a bad thing. It's merely a tool used in the war.

And if he really is trying to incubate grief seeds, he's doing a terrible job of it. 1 magical girl out of how many? And if Sayaka could break down so easily just by telling her, then he could have told her earlier. In fact, if Madoka hadn't of tossed the soul gem over the bridge, he never would have told them, and Sayaka would have gone about her life just like Mami.

So what is he incubating, really?

[daimonth]

Doing necessary evil doesn't change the fact that the act is evil and that so long as you are doing it then you are evil as well. Necessary evil only matter on whether or not you can be forgiven for it.

Being an alien being doesnt matter either because we are human and should judge using human standard. It's not a matter of what it is universally (can't really observed anyways) but a matter of what it is to us.

[creb]

QB is an evil bastard. I still love the little git though. If I had a young daughter, I would totally buy her a QB plush doll.

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

And if he really is trying to incubate grief seeds, he's doing a terrible job of it. 1 magical girl out of how many? And if Sayaka could break down so easily just by telling her, then he could have told her earlier. In fact, if Madoka hadn't of tossed the soul gem over the bridge, he never would have told them, and Sayaka would have gone about her life just like Mami.

So what is he incubating, really?

As we refer to an "incubator", we should consider what he actually takes into his body or hive subdimension/whatever. A girl naturally grows into a woman, but seeds and eggs both need nourishment and care to grow.

[Mentar]

That's one explanation. Another possible explanation would be that he's incubating MGs with Grief Seeds. When they mature (see what QB said at the end of ep8), they're gonna turn into witches. MGs carry the seed of their own destruction within themselves.

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Mentar

That's one explanation. Another possible explanation would be that he's incubating MGs with Grief Seeds. When they mature (see what QB said at the end of ep8), they're gonna turn into witches. MGs carry the seed of their own destruction within themselves.

Wait, how would he be incubating MGs with grief seeds? They come from dead witches...and Sayaka turned into a witch by other means...

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

Wait, how would he be incubating MGs with grief seeds? They come from dead witches...and Sayaka turned into a witch by other means...

Rewatch the scene. Sayaka's Soul Gem shatters, and the Grief Seed constructs itself in its place. The pointy thing. Like a chicken that hatches from its egg.

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Rewatch the scene. Sayaka's Soul Gem shatters, and the Grief Seed constructs itself in its place. The pointy thing. Like a chicken that hatches from its egg.

I saw. I don't see the connection between QB swallowing grief seeds and that though. Way I see it he just swallows the grief seeds after the witches are defeated, and the grief seeds are what soul gems become once they're tainted enough.

What did you mean by incubating MGs?

[Sageblink]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

I saw. I don't see the connection between QB swallowing grief seeds and that though. Way I see it he just swallows the grief seeds after the witches are defeated, and the grief seeds are what soul gems become once they're tainted enough.

What did you mean by incubating MGs?

I think Mentar means that by swallowing Grief Seeds, he's able to create Soul Gem which will turn into GS etc etc.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Decagon

As we refer to an "incubator", we should consider what he actually takes into his body or hive subdimension/whatever. A girl naturally grows into a woman, but seeds and eggs both need nourishment and care to grow.

Perhaps he incubates grief seeds into a soul gem, the ultimate purification. Once an MG has used a seed enough that it has accumulated enough darkness that the witch could be reborn, he takes and works like a filter, straining all that darkness off. I won't speculate as to whether that is to a good or evil purpose; just dealing with the process itself.

He pulls out the soul, grabs one of his shiny new cases that has been cleansed, and puts the soul into it. It can degenerate into another grief seed, but that's only if the MG is stupid like Sayaka and never cleanses it.

Another thought; if the soul is in the gem, and the gem cracks open, then it is the soul itself that has turned into a grief seed. It makes sense that magic, like most weapons, can be dangerous for the user as well. But that doesn't make it inherently good nor bad.

[AvatarST]

Well, what we know is this:

1. Kyuubey contracts a girl to become a magical girl, making a soul gem out of her soul from the process.

2. Girl fights witches, but it's a losing battle; witches don't always drop a soul gem, so eventually the gem will be tainted enough to turn into a witch herself, or she'll die in the fight (we don't know yet if such cases turn into witches or not).

3. Witches make familiars that also turn into witches (dunno whether this is definitely true since it's Kyoko's speculation) which enforces the idea of fighting a losing battle.

4. Kyuubey eats the grief seeds the magical girls collect, but we don't know the purpose yet.

I also found it interesting that he stopped Sayaka from sending too much taint into the grief seed, and swallowed it, claiming it's also "one of his jobs". What would have happened if Sayaka kept sending taint into the gem?

As for his motivation, all we know is that he accepted he has ulterior motives. When Homura told him that she knows exactly what he's trying to do, he admitted, "so that's why you're trying to stop me". I'd say this sounds more evil than anything, but we don't know 100% yet.

And finally, Madoka is naturally at the center of all this. What awaits her? Death? Kyuube's words about her to Homura were, "Do you think you can change Kaname Madoka's fate?"

The conversation between Madoka and Kyuube was very interesting too. Is he after the most powerful grief seed possible? Does he want her to change how the system works? Why exactly does he want Madoka's power?

The last episode raised a lot of questions...

[Sageblink]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

What would have happened if Sayaka kept sending taint into the gem?

I think he stated that the witch could be revived. But we don't know if that's true...

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Rewatch the scene. Sayaka's Soul Gem shatters, and the Grief Seed constructs itself in its place. The pointy thing. Like a chicken that hatches from its egg.

I think the grief seed is more like an egg yolk to the soul gem's egg white and both arise from the gem creation and the girl, but with the outside gone you just see what was hidden under the swirly colors.

Originally Posted by AvatarST

I also found it interesting that he stopped Sayaka from sending too much taint into the grief seed, and swallowed it, claiming it's also "one of his jobs". What would have happened if Sayaka kept sending taint into the gem?

He warns her that the witch inside could come out again if there is too much taint.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

2. Girl fights witches, but it's a losing battle; witches don't always drop a soul gem, so eventually the gem will be tainted enough to turn into a witch herself, or she'll die in the fight (we don't know yet if such cases turn into witches or not).

This is mostly speculation. Mami seemed to do just fine, and so did Kyoko. Neither one seemed in danger, despite how long they may have been doing it. Perhaps Homura, too. In fact, Kyoko had done so well that she was considerably stronger than Sayaka. And Sayaka had to deliberately not cleanse her jewel after repeated fights in order to have it get tainted.

3. Witches make familiars that also turn into witches (dunno whether this is definitely true since it's Kyoko's speculation) which enforces the idea of fighting a losing battle.

She seemed to really believe it. Given that she's been at this awhile, one would presume she knows what she is talking about. The rest of your points are factual, though

I also found it interesting that he stopped Sayaka from sending too much taint into the grief seed, and swallowed it, claiming it's also "one of his jobs". What would have happened if Sayaka kept sending taint into the gem?

According to Kyube, the witch would have been reborn. Kyube took it, apparently, so he could store it in a safe place so the witch wouldn't be reborn. If he wanted the witch to be reborn so she could make more familiars and thus more witches, then he would have had to be lying here.

As for his motivation, all we know is that he accepted he has ulterior motives. When Homura told him that she knows exactly what he's trying to do, he admitted, "so that's why you're trying to stop me". I'd say this sounds more evil than anything, but we don't know 100% yet.

And finally, Madoka is naturally at the center of all this. What awaits her? Death? Kyuube's words about her to Homura were, "Do you think you can change Kaname Madoka's fate?"

The conversation between Madoka and Kyuube was very interesting too. Is he after the most powerful grief seed possible? Does he want her to change how the system works? Why exactly does he want Madoka's power?

The last episode raised a lot of questions...

Same. What I found interesting, was that Kyube talked of hope. If she really is all powerful and can change things, why would he want that? It feels to me more like his interest is just in seeing what she can do, even if that ultimately ends up changing the system.

Could have been lying, but considering he hasn't actually lied yet, then it's interesting to speculate on, heh.

[Sageblink]

Originally Posted by Decagon

I think the grief seed is more like an egg yolk to the soul gem's egg white and both arise from the gem creation and the girl, but with the outside gone you just see what was hidden under the swirly colors.


He warns her that the witch inside could come out again if there is too much taint.

If it's true.

Then... Killing Witch-Sayaka is not of a big deal. You could wait for the seed to be full with taint so she should come out, and with Madoka super-latent-potential-yet-to-be-use powers, you turn her back to a human.

[AvatarST]

About the witch being reborn (thanks everyone for reminding me of that): I don't think QB would outright lie since as far as we've seen he's not lied yet. So it's probably true that the witch would be reborn, although we don't know in what form or shape. I suppose if he's after the grief seeds however, it'd have gone against his plans, so he had good reason to stop Sayaka.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

This is mostly speculation. Mami seemed to do just fine, and so did Kyoko. Neither one seemed in danger, despite how long they may have been doing it. Perhaps Homura, too. In fact, Kyoko had done so well that she was considerably stronger than Sayaka. And Sayaka had to deliberately not cleanse her jewel after repeated fights in order to have it get tainted.

Yeah, like you've said in other posts, his success rate, at least from the characters we've seen, is alarmingly low. And Sayaka turned into a witch due to her own stubborness to not cleanse her soul gem. Moreover, he seems to be happy about Kyoko cleansing her soul gem and being strong, and all the girls know about this fact. If he wants them to turn into witches ASAP, why would he even tell them that they have to cleanse their soul gems? Is the extra taint the girls send into the grief seeds all that important? Because otherwise, it'd be best to have them fight witches and give him the grief seeds, then the girls turn into witches sooner, who in turn get defeated by new magical girls, etc. It's not like he's been adverse to omitting information before, yet he tells them about this fact for some reason.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Same. What I found interesting, was that Kyube talked of hope. If she really is all powerful and can change things, why would he want that? It feels to me more like his interest is just in seeing what she can do, even if that ultimately ends up changing the system.

Could have been lying, but considering he hasn't actually lied yet, then it's interesting to speculate on, heh.

Yeah, I honestly don't think he's lying. Honestly it's hard to speculate what his intentions are at the moment.

[SagaraSouske]

The whole witch may reborn if grief seed from QB IMHO is just a excuse that QB give so that MGs don't use it to keep on absorbing darkness from their SG and also for him to take it away from MGs to eat it.