Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (take 3)

[El_Negro]

Probably when C.C. gives him her immortality and he's forced 2 live 4 eternity and watch the people he loved and cherish die before his eyes

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Again, mass Geass spamming will only bend the wills of everyone around them. You know, like his damn father tried to do. Is that hard to get for some people or something?



Oh please. If Lelouch is half as smart as he is supposed to be, intelligence should get him farther than Geass.

He's mass spamming the nobles. Sorry, but I don't have much sympathy for them. If he needs to do this to get Britannia to change I certainly don't have a problem with it. Once he gets the job done and Britannia becomes a constitutional monarchy or something he will be finished with geass.

And no, all the intelligence in the world would not have helped him grab the throne of Britannia like that. No one would buy anything he could possibly spout out. Now if you are talking about getting the throne YEARS down the line, sure....he could return to court and slowly make progress in that direction. But he sure as hell does not have years. He needs to act quickly.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Orga777

SO why the fuck didn't he do that in teh first place then?
Sorry, no matter the intentions, it is still wrong and it still isn't how they should do things. Maybe Lelouch just isn't convincing enough though. Or maybe his intellect was overrated. Either way, I don't agree with how he did it. Geass causes more problems than good. I wonder when Lelouch will finally learn that.

Cause the response would have been

Guinevere Britannia "No way Lelouch. First everyone thinks you are dead, and now you come back wanting to be emperor? And you are only 17th in line."

Odysseus u Britannia- "Seriously Lelouch, stop with this joke and get out of your father's throne."

^And that's if he doesn't mention him killing his father. I don't think Spinzaku has enough kicks to fight an entire palace off.

[Dream_Traveller]

Originally Posted by Orga777

SO why the fuck didn't he do that in teh first place then?
Sorry, no matter the intentions, it is still wrong and it still isn't how they should do things. Maybe Lelouch just isn't convincing enough though. Or maybe his intellect was overrated. Either way, I don't agree with how he did it. Geass causes more problems than good. I wonder when Lelouch will finally learn that.

Didn't you see what I typed? It was rife with sarcasm. Lelouch couldn't have hoped to have convince them otherwise. Odysseus, Carline, Guinevere (her especially) and all the family were up in arms. Without Geass, there was no way that his ascension would have been accepted. The family wouldn't even listen to a Number if Suzaku defended him, and Lelouch would have been deposed or shot immediately otherwise.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Not quite. but I WAS hoping for pure mind game, strategic battle of epic proportions between Schneizel and Lelouch. But it looks like I will be denied that because Geass is still around.

OMG, you just stated earlier Schneizel would probably be smart enough to avoid face to face confrontation to Lelouch. There is plenty of possibility for mind games without them getting near each other. Heck, geass adds to the mind game with how Schneizel plans to counter it.

[TheDisruptiveOne]

I don't know much about Odysseus...but part of fixing Britannia is purging it of it's rotten elements. The world will be better off without Carline and Guinevere. The nobility in Britannia has also been presented as a problem throughout the series...if Lelouch can destroy the nobility and the monarchy...I think it's possible that Britannia will become a better country.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

Didn't you see what I typed? It was rife with sarcasm. Lelouch couldn't have hoped to have convince them otherwise. Odysseus, Carline, Guinevere (her especially) and all the family were up in arms. Without Geass, there was no way that his ascension would have been accepted. The family wouldn't even listen to a Number if Suzaku defended him, and Lelouch would have been deposed or shot immediately otherwise.

Well maybe he should have thought of a better way to enter the room rather than "Yo, I killed dad and will be Emperor now. Yeah..."

Again though, I don't care what his reasons are. Both he and Suzaku were so damn angsty about Geass and having wills bent and then they turn around and contradict that? Am I REALLY the only one that sees a problem here?

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

OMG, you just stated earlier Schneizel would probably be smart enough to avoid face to face confrontation to Lelouch. There is plenty of possibility for mind games without them getting near each other. Heck, geass adds to the mind game with how Schneizel plans to counter it.

Now he knows Lelouch still has Geass though. It would have been BETTER to have a face to face confrontation instead of one at a distance like it will have to become due to Geass that will have to be planned around.

There is a problem though. Lelouch relies on his Geass TOO much. He may not have the needed intelligence to get around that if he is forced to not use Geass.

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Well maybe he should have thought of a better way to enter the room rather than "Yo, I killed dad and will be Emperor now. Yeah..."

Again though, I don't care what his reasons are. Both he and Suzaku were so damn angsty about Geass and having wills bent and then they turn around and contradict that? Am I REALLY the only one that sees a problem here?

Maybe they planned something other from just using Geass to Geass everyone to obey/acknowledge them/ rape the puppies?
If Lelouch is so intelligent, don't you think he planned something?

[TheDisruptiveOne]

And the reason I don't criticize Lelouch and Suzaku for their actions in episode 21 is because we don't know their full plan. I don't think they intend to sit back and admire their handiwork. I think Lelouch intends to change things even if he has to use his geass and bare all of the sins. And I also think he intends to die after he has done so.

I don't know what the Ragnarok would have accomplished...it seems like it would have taken away free will. Lelouch saved everyone from that fate...so I don't have a problem with giving him the benefit of the doubt for a few episodes until I know his complete plan.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Well maybe he should have thought of a better way to enter the room rather than "Yo, I killed dad and will be Emperor now. Yeah..."

Again though, I don't care what his reasons are. Both he and Suzaku were so damn angsty about Geass and having wills bent and then they turn around and contradict that? Am I REALLY the only one that sees a problem here?

I'm going to ask this one final question.

What could he have done to gain power and have the chance to fix what he sees wrong in the world without geassing the Royal Family into placing him as Emperor?

Remember, it was only Suzaku (who doesn't even have a knightmare frame), CC, and himself from what we know so far of that month. We don't know what happened to Anya or Jeremiah, but a couple of people wouldn't factor in really with how helpless they would be against the supreme powers.


EDIT- And I agree with Disruptrive. Maybe he is using Geass for the good of the overall picture this time. While yes, geass did bend the wills of everyone against what they normally would have done, it is no different then pointing a gun at someone's head and forcing them. He used the weapon available to him. We have to sit back and see the outcome now.

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by TheDisruptiveOne

And the reason I don't criticize Lelouch and Suzaku for their actions in episode 21 is because we don't know their full plan. I don't think they intend to sit back and admire their handiwork. I think Lelouch intends to change things even if he has to use his geass and bare all of the sins. And I also think he intends to die after he has done so.

I don't know what the Ragnarok would have accomplished...it seems like it would have taken away free will. Lelouch saved everyone from that fate...so I don't have a problem with giving him the benefit of the doubt for a few episodes until I know his complete plan.

Just for lulz...
Benefit of doubt for few episodes? I think 3 episodes are few.
In 25 it will be revealed that Lelouch is planning to Geass everyone. Lol.

[El_Negro]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Well maybe he should have thought of a better way to enter the room rather than "Yo, I killed dad and will be Emperor now. Yeah..."

Again though, I don't care what his reasons are. Both he and Suzaku were so damn angsty about Geass and having wills bent and then they turn around and contradict that? Am I REALLY the only one that sees a problem here?

Think of geass like this:

It's like being a Jedi, u have the force, u know it's powerful, it how u utilize it

Jedi's use the force for good intentions (peace throughout the galaxy & all that other mushy crap), that's what makes the Jedi good

Sith use the force for bad intentions (to enslave, rule the galaxy), that's what makes the Sith bad

So can lelouch actions be seen as good or bad? U see it as bad since from all the previous episodes paints geass in a totally bad light.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

What could he have done to gain power and have the chance to fix what he sees wrong in the world without geassing the Royal Family into placing him as Emperor?

His wit? His smarts? Plan something out rather than usuper the thrown? He could have done something different. We just watched a couple episodes ago Schneizel turning the BK's completely against Lelouch. And Lelouch is supposed to be as smart as him right? So why didn't he do something similar?

I am not saying what Lelouch didn't work or that it isn't effective. But I don't like how it contradicts what he said in that SAME episode.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Orga777

His wit? His smarts? Plan something out rather than usuper the thrown? He could have done something different. We just watched a couple episodes ago Schneizel turning the BK's completely against Lelouch. And Lelouch is supposed to be as smart as him right? So why didn't he do something similar?

I am not saying what Lelouch didn't work or that it isn't effective. But I don't like how it contradicts what he said in that SAME episode.

Schneizel had all the evidence he needed as well as distrust of Zero being built amongst the Black Knights themself. Lelouch has nothing at the moment to convince them to come back to him.

His other option, the imperial family, showed they were happy to see him alive. However, he has no evidence of Schneizel planning anything (No one does atm. Only Charles hinted at dealing with Schneizel's world) nor would he have a chance at convincing them to let him take the thrown.

I do give you the fact that he could have potentially got in touch with Milly and jacked the weather report and said it was going to rain on Schneizel's birthday though.

I seriously think you just hate Geass so much that you'd rather not see it used at all instead of looking at all the circumstances.


EDIT: And what contradiction are you referring to? Want to make sure I am thinking of the same one.

[Dream_Traveller]

Lelouch wasn't said to have a wit on the level of his brother. The fact that Schneizel was the only member of the royal family to constantly beat him at chess suggests this.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

His other option, the imperial family, showed they were happy to see him alive. However, he has no evidence of Schneizel planning anything (No one does atm. Only Charles hinted at dealing with Schneizel's world) nor would he have a chance at convincing them to let him take the thrown.

It doesn't even have to be Schneizel. It could be his father. There is plenty of evidence to show his father was not good for Britannia. Fuck, Schneizel was doing the same thing an episode ago. And if Schneizel can somehow jump people ahead of him, then why can't Lelouch?

EDIT: And what contradiction are you referring to? Want to make sure I am thinking of the same one.

"Bending wills to suit your own needs is bad"contradiction.

[bladeofdarkness]

Schneizel used tricks to take the OOBK from him
lulu used his tricks (geass) to take britannia from Schneizel

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

Schneizel used tricks to take the OOBK from him
lulu used his tricks (geass) to take britannia from Schneizel

I don't call "telling the truth and instilling fear" as tricks...

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Orga777

It doesn't even have to be Schneizel. It could be his father. There is plenty of evidence to show his father was not good for Britannia. Fuck, Schneizel was doing the same thing an episode ago. And if Schneizel can somehow jump people ahead of him, then why can't Lelouch?

Because Schneizel is in a situation where he could. He is the 2nd prince, has some of the knights, etc. He even had Bismark asking him to 'rule the new world.' Schneizel also has quite a bit of authority and respect among his siblings.


Lelouch has nothing, absolutely nothing.

"Bending wills to suit your own needs is bad"contradiction.

Huh? Only thing I remember Lelouch going on about was
1) His parents abandoning him and Nunnally.
2) The 'new world' where thoughts were controlled for all with forced kindess, becoming one, etc.

Lelouch wants people to have freewill overall. He didn't want them to all become one mass collection of memories.