The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 1]

[Jintor]

Can Haruhi create a life-form she can't influence?

[Ithekro]

That depends...did she create Kyon? Or did she transfere him over to her new universe from his own? It brings up the question...was Haruhi the god of the world before "three years ago"? If not, then she had an awakening, and perhaps created a new universe that works the way she's like, but moved most things from her old universe into the new one because it was easier than making up everything from scratch.

[Tyabann]

Don't forget that only the espers believe that Haruhi actually created the universe.

It's more likely that she simply created some sort of massive "data" explosion when creating the espers, which also had the adverse effect of sealing off the past, thus drawing the attention of both the aliens and time travelers.

You know, this is pretty much what the series tells us.

This still begs the question of where her powers originate from.

[C.A.]

I've always thought that Kyon's behaviour is exactly what Haruhi wanted, that's why he is like this. Its not that Haruhi can't affect him, its that Haruhi wanted a guy like him who she can't boss around.

She brought Kyon into her new world in the end of volume 1 as a whole, she wanted him to be just like that.

In order words Kyon is her perfect man lol

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by C.A.

In order words Kyon is her perfect man lol

No, "John Smith" is her perfect man, remember.

I've always had the suspicion that it was he that she wanted to bring with her into the new world... but of course she doesn't know that Kyon IS John Smith.

[Jintor]

I'm not entirely convinced that she would form such a huge attachment to a mysterious figure she met only once to the point of subconsciously desiring their presence in the new universe she has created (although on that point, you could argue that she wanted to find "John Smith", and, well, she found him). But then again, it is plausible. Just not entirely convincing.

[C.A.]

lol, 'order words', seems like eating while typing creates some weird results.

But it doesn't matter whether its John Smith or Kyon, Haruhi has chosen him. And he is just what Haruhi wants, and he's behaving just like what Haruhi wants him to be, not that Haruhi can't influence him.

Haruhi does influence him by making him think that the supernatural could be quite fun though.

[Ekul]

Another theory could say that Haruhi exists inside and outside her body. If her body died, her "higher self" would bring her back to life. Credence to this theory is: She knows how to use her powers, but she doesn't know that she is. This version is the logical version that fulfills her desires with the least effort possible. If she was remaking the world, it's possible that this logical version was afraid that she would kill herself, so it tried to rewrite reality. This being is probably made of the same data that the Data Overmind is made of.

Heck, maybe it's keeping her in the dark because it thinks that she'll be happier that way. If that is the case, maybe she is incapable of believing she's God.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Jintor

I'm not entirely convinced that she would form such a huge attachment to a mysterious figure she met only once to the point of subconsciously desiring their presence in the new universe she has created (although on that point, you could argue that she wanted to find "John Smith", and, well, she found him). But then again, it is plausible. Just not entirely convincing.

John Smith was the one person who believed her and shared her views on the supernatural, ever.

Also, I'd argue that, by the end of Vol. 1, due to the fact that they look identical, she may already have subconsciously combined Kyon and John Smith together in her mind.

To Haruhi, her mental image of John Smith is "a Kyon that believes in the supernatural".

I await the day she finds out what he used to be like before the end of junior high.

Originally Posted by C.A.

But it doesn't matter whether its John Smith or Kyon, Haruhi has chosen him. And he is just what Haruhi wants, and he's behaving just like what Haruhi wants him to be, not that Haruhi can't influence him.

Poor Kyon.

Originally Posted by Ekul

Another theory could say that Haruhi exists inside and outside her body. If her body died, her "higher self" would bring her back to life. Credence to this theory is: She knows how to use her powers, but she doesn't know that she is. This version is the logical version that fulfills her desires with the least effort possible. If she was remaking the world, it's possible that this logical version was afraid that she would kill herself, so it tried to rewrite reality. This being is probably made of the same data that the Data Overmind is made of.

Heck, maybe it's keeping her in the dark because it thinks that she'll be happier that way. If that is the case, maybe she is incapable of believing she's God.

And the name of this existence is "Orihime". >_>

[C.A.]

If Haruhi really wished, Orihime and Kengyuu could really exist lol

It would be insane if her wishes came true and the world orbits around her and stuff.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by C.A.

If Haruhi really wished, Orihime and Kengyuu could really exist lol

I was more referring to the old, awesome theory that Haruhi and Kyon are actually reincarnations/avatars of Orihime and Hikoboshi, who have somehow managed to meet more than once per year.

Originally Posted by C.A.

It would be insane if her wishes came true and the world orbits around her and stuff.

Wasn't that more metaphorical?

[Ithekro]

Base problem with Haruhi's wishes are than they may have come true already, just she doesn't know.

The World basically already revolves around her...and perhaps the rotation of the Earth reversed when that explosion of data happened. While that doesn't seem likely since the sun still seems to rise and set in the correct place, perhaps it isn't since we have no "real" indication that it wasn't going the opposite way in her world before that.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I was more referring to the old, awesome theory that Haruhi and Kyon are actually reincarnations/avatars of Orihime and Hikoboshi, who have somehow managed to meet more than once per year.

Wasn't that more metaphorical?

I've heard of the theory, but my knowledge of the legend really can't make me see Haruhi and Kyon as the 2 of them lol

However metaphorical Haruhi thinks and wishes, the things that happen will turn out to be somehow physical, scientific, but still breaks logic and laws of the universe.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Base problem with Haruhi's wishes are than they may have come true already, just she doesn't know.

The World basically already revolves around her...and perhaps the rotation of the Earth reversed when that explosion of data happened. While that doesn't seem likely since the sun still seems to rise and set in the correct place, perhaps it isn't since we have no "real" indication that it wasn't going the opposite way in her world before that.

For this case, I'd like to think that her wishes will only happen in that many years it takes to reach the stars and return lol

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Jintor

Can Haruhi create a life-form she can't influence?

What's the difference between "can't influence" and "don't want to influence"?

Kyon can certainly be influenced by Haruhi magically into doing what she wants, but if she does force him by magic, then what's the point?

Haruhi has desires. And how she deal with and act on these desires is entirely her decision.

Yes, Haruhi influences Kyon, but in the traditional way. You can influence ANYONE, in a way. You just won't necessarily get what you want.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by C.A.

I've heard of the theory, but my knowledge of the legend really can't make me see Haruhi and Kyon as the 2 of them lol

It's still a great theory. Bah.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Kyon can certainly be influenced by Haruhi magically into doing what she wants, but if she does force him by magic, then what's the point?

Exactly. Haruhi wants Kyon to fall in love with her on his own. Good luck with that.

[C.A.]

Haruhi may also know that Kyon won't listen to whatever she says, which is also why she just ignores his opinions all the time lol

She knows that Kyon will most likely not agree to what she wants, but it usually ends up cleaning up whatever mess Haruhi created.

[Jintor]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

What's the difference between "can't influence" and "don't want to influence"?

I know what she is doing, I was asking on a theoretical basis.

[Ithekro]

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by C.A.

For this case, I'd like to think that her wishes will only happen in that many years it takes to reach the stars and return lol

From my POV, Haruhi came up with the light year delay explanation after 3 years of no reply. Technically her message has already been received, she just doesn't know.

The reversal of the Earth's spin, however... she probably wouldn't allow it to happen.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

Unless everything you thought of is incorrect and the truth is far to bizarre for you to imagine.