[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Pinguma

'...The bright-red paint that had been slathered on was dripping down, and even though no one said it, it made us think of blood.'

I think it implied it was wet, though it could be translation? I dunno...I think it could also be recent if it was real blood. I mean to say that the colour changes may just be fresh blood (bright-red) against blood that has been there for a while (darker red).

The painter knowing of the charm to draw the hands is quite likely, I think Jessica would have to let the culprit know though, deliberately or coincidentally. Coincidentally being like telling someone like Shannon since they are friends, or telling Maria that she gave the charm to Natsuhi, with Maria being in contact with the culprit, 'Beatrice'.

What I think happened is the culprit entered her room (considering how likely it is that one of the servants is an accomplice or has had their key relieved of them. Remember, they didn't check whether or not Shannon had her key with her in the shed), noticed the scorpion charm hanging from the doorknob, and since they were hiding behind the Illusion of the Witch, let her be. Then the culprit or an accomplice came by a few hours later to put up the bloody hands.

[Pinguma]

Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki

What I think happened is the culprit entered her room (considering how likely it is that one of the servants is an accomplice or has had their key relieved of them. Remember, they didn't check whether or not Shannon had her key with her in the shed), noticed the scorpion charm hanging from the doorknob, and since they were hiding behind the Illusion of the Witch, let her be. Then the culprit or an accomplice came by a few hours later to put up the bloody hands.

Ah that is true. I wonder what the idea was in EP2 though... the hands are there again and they did not 'protect Natsuhi', or rather they were possibly done after her death instead...

It could be that rather it was painted on for the three that died to observe. If one of the three were an accomplice (most likely Shannon), or even if they weren't, they could have simply stated something like 'it was surely the power of the mirror that protected this room from Beatrice being able to enter, and therefore they should use it to protect themselves from the witch', and so they go inside where the closed room murder can be set up.
The three did tell Genji that they were going to go to Natsuhi's room and that they were going to get the key. It might be that Genji simply scribbled and moved away before the three got to Natsuhi's room, or someone else did it before they return to tell Rosa about the death of Nanjo and Kumasawa, making it appear as if 'the witch did it'. This could be what Shannon really disappeared from the room to do when 'Kanon attacked them'.

Originally Posted by RockReborn

Could George, Shannon, and Gohda have been attacked and only managed to lock the door (to prevent the culprit from coming in) before dying from their wounds?

With the way they were spread out across the room and their positions, it seems extremely strange for them to die from just their wounds. Seems more likely that they were killed in those respective positions or were placed like that after their death. George was staked in the stomach, so he would have had to walk to the wall and not towards Shannon, and then sit/collapse downwards without bothering to remove the stake, and the fact that Shannon was staked in the head, so one of them inside would have to do it if they died in such a manner.

[imaginari]

I had assumed that the markings on Natsuhi's door had something to do with whatever the three victims were searching for, which was definitely not a mirror and probably had something to do with Kinzo's body. But the markings only appear twice whereas Kinzo is sacrificed during all four of Beatrice's games.

I've now just thought of another pattern: Krauss is a first twilight during EP1 and 2. He also died in EP5, but the culprit hid this from Natsuhi. But there's a flaw in this theory as well - the markings in the second game were apparently made after Natsuhi died, and I don't know who else the markings could have been intended for.

[J the Drafter]

Originally Posted by imaginari

I had assumed that the markings on Natsuhi's door had something to do with whatever the three victims were searching for, which was definitely not a mirror and probably had something to do with Kinzo's body.

This thought is completely out of the blue, so there's no reasoning backing it, but could they have been searching for proof that Natsuhi sent the letters that claimed to be written by Beatrice?

[speculusfracta]

Spoiler for Red Truth/Blue Truth Speculation:

Okay. I've been thinking about this for a while, and I don't know if it's been brought up before (what with ~300 pages), but there's something I just realized...

Red Truth is the power to speak the absolute, certain truth.
Blue Truth is the power to present a possible truth forward, that can only be defeated if it is responded with a Red Truth that makes it impossible.

... Something I noticed about the Witches.

Lady Lambdadelta is known as the "Witch of Certainty". She has the power to 'kill' anyone without fail. She has a reddish, pinkish color scheme.

Lady Bernkastel is known as the "Witch of Miracles", who has the ability to make a miracle happen, no matter how low the probability, as long as the chance is not equal to zero. She has a bluish, purplish color scheme.

Red Truth = Certainty = Lambdadelta?
Blue Truth = Miracle = Bernkastel?

[Judoh]

DAMN! I can't beleive I never noticed this!

Spoiler for Jessica 6 years also pony theory confirmed:

Obsessed much?






sources:
http://07th-expansion.net/umi/cha/kla.html#jes
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-boar...94767#p4494767

I'm actually kind of pissed because this is impossible to deny now.

[imaginari]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I'm actually kind of pissed because this is impossible to deny now.

Really? I don't know about that.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by imaginari

Really? I don't know about that.

Yeah I guess I just stopped thinking. Damn though Pony theory? That was one of my favorites when I first heard of it (Although I understand that most of the theory is based on assumptions, but what theory isn't?). If it wasn't for the whole episode 6 thing I'd totally be claiming that Jessica is the culprit. At the same time though I want to beleive that Beatrice isn't the mastermind so I have a double standard.

[Jan-Poo]

The only relevant part on that list of images is the one referring this:

http://07th-expansion.net/umi/cha/kla.html#jes

which really says Jessica is waiting for a prince on a white horse to come and rescue her from that island.

The rest doesn't tell me anything unless I'm missing something...

Anyway it's funny how this "image" of a prince on a white horse which is at the basis of the pony theory has been used here. But then again in my case I've always been in the doubt among Jessica and Shannon (and Kanon), and I've always seen hints about them being "Beatrice" in both cases. This is yet another one pointing to Jessica but nothing groundbreaking, and nothing that could beat all the hints pointing to Shannon after EP6. At least... imho...

[Kitsu]

Also, I don't think the pony theory is that stable anymore, mayber the ground of the promise but nothing more. While I do want to add that Jessica's carefree and happy behaviour while talking to Battler on the phone is a strike against Pony/Promise/Jessi loves Battler etc. because she is just normally talking to him, she is neither angry nor somehow different then she is usually talking to Battler, George or her friends I guess. I don't find it strange at all that she is happily chattering away with him. Sorry I can't follow your point with that one.
Furthermore people are saying that Jessica was the first one that wanted Battler to find the truth and therefore is Beatrice (as she wants Battler to find the truth as well) I find that really..I don't know? Stupid? As she says that she didn't want to suspect her firends, family etc. that means that she doesn't know truth (which Beatrice does) and that she herself stopped thinking. I don't see any Beatrice in that also she is talking in "plural" meaning her AND George.

Am I only one that finds utterly ironic that she wants a prince and is all over her servant? Sheesh, sorry I forgot all those scenes are fake and she loves Battler, sorry.
Being serious I don't really think you should build something on something only been said on the website and if you do you might think about it some more as it actually pretty natural that girls dream of their prince charming.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Judoh

DAMN! I can't beleive I never noticed this!

Spoiler for Jessica 6 years also pony theory confirmed:

Obsessed much?






sources:
http://07th-expansion.net/umi/cha/kla.html#jes
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-boar...94767#p4494767

I'm actually kind of pissed because this is impossible to deny now.

Um...wow. You're using 4chan as a reliable source :|

Pony theory is anything but confirmed. If anything it was denied out of existence thanks to EP 6.

Besides, Jessica isn't the only one who told Battler to solve the mystery of the murders. Heck Kyrie was the first one who encouraged Battler to solve how Maria got the letter.

People are just overthinking things sometimes. This is one of those cases.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Marion

Um...wow. You're using 4chan as a reliable source :|

Pony theory is anything but confirmed. If anything it was denied out of existence thanks to EP 6.

Besides, Jessica isn't the only one who told Battler to solve the mystery of the murders. Heck Kyrie was the first one who encouraged Battler to solve how Maria got the letter.

People are just overthinking things sometimes. This is one of those cases.

Since I haven't read 6, how? I know that 6 pretty much eliminates Jessica as Beatrice, but how does it eliminate the theory as a whole?

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Since I haven't read 6, how? I know that 6 pretty much eliminates Jessica as Beatrice, but how does it eliminate the theory as a whole?

Spoiler for EP 6 spoilers:

Pony theory says that there was a little girl on the island, who we know now as our Beatrice. She switched with Shannon one day for the family conference, for whatever reason, and met Battler. He promised to see her again, but never came next year. Then Kinzo abuses her sexually (because Kinzo is apparently a pedophile too) and Kumasawa and Genji hide her away somehow. In EP 4 she is apparently the Beatrice that Battler sees on the balcony.

Now here is EP 6: in the game it is made VERY clear that our Beatrice was born from the feelings of a girl who was in love with Battler. Beatrice is literally an imaginary being, created as a vessel for a girl's feelings - this is why during the game the young Beatrice is always saying how she was born to love Battler, but the elder Beatrice isn't (since the elder is the personification of the witch legend, rather than the broken promise.)

Pony Theory has always been very paper thin at times however. There is no proof that there was ever a switch between Shannon and another girl. The idea that Shannon was hired at a young age for the little Beatrice can easily be countered with the idea that Shannon was rather hired to be Jessica's playmate.

What I listed is the main reason why the pony theory can be considered dead in the dirt, but there are other factors to it. The fact is I doubt Ryukishi will spring something like a switchup between a Beatrice and Shannon at this point in the story. Anyone hoping for such is just denying the fact that Shannon has at one point been in love with Battler, which is made pretty obvious by the game.

[ameskitty]

Hmm, here there might just be confusion on what exactly the pony theory is. Even I thought it was just the theory that Battler broke a promise to Shannon to "return on a white horse" and the portion of her longing for Battler to return became Beatrice. No rape or switching or anything.

And that theory's still pretty valid, if not partially confirmed.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by the_rogue

Hmm, here there might just be confusion on what exactly the pony theory is. Even I thought it was just the theory that Battler broke a promise to Shannon to "return on a white horse" and the portion of her longing for Battler to return became Beatrice. No rape or switching or anything.

And that theory's still pretty valid, if not partially confirmed.

That portion can really standalone however - pony theory as a whole has the switch involved and everything. And the pony theory always involved Beatrice and Battler, never Shannon and Battler. It has a very big bias towards BatBeato as anyone can plainly see.

[imaginari]

I never, ever, understood the reasoning behind the Shannon switch, why she would be identical to a stranger or why 1986 Shannon would repeat what Battler said to someone else. I think that whoever thought of this was trying to keep all of the ships afloat.

[RockReborn]

I can't help but wonder, if the pony theory as stated by the_rogue is indeed valid, then why is murdering the Ushiromiya family and its servants necessary at all?

The reds we are given in EP5 (as quoted from http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Text) that are relevant are as follows:
This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph.
The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
Whether the epitaph's riddle is solved or not, this child stands nothing to gain at all.
Regardless of whether the epitaph is solved or not, Beato has nothing to gain.
Her goal is not to make someone experience fear.
And it isn't to have revenge on someone either.
Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure.

If the murders are never for pleasure, does that necessarily mean Beato doesn't enjoy them? And what about the letter given to Maria concerning the gold?

[Kitsu]

Hmm, here there might just be confusion on what exactly the pony theory is. Even I thought it was just the theory that Battler broke a promise to Shannon to "return on a white horse" and the portion of her longing for Battler to return became Beatrice. No rape or switching or anything.

And that theory's still pretty valid, if not partially confirmed.

Marion is right. The pony theory Judoh was talking about was the one that was on 4chan for a long time and was pretty popular. The core of it was that there was a real Beatrice

I can't help but wonder, if the pony theory as stated by the_rogue is indeed valid, then why is murdering the Ushiromiya family and its servants necessary at all?

The reds we are given in EP5 (as quoted from http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Text) that are relevant are as follows:
This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph.
The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
Whether the epitaph's riddle is solved or not, this child stands nothing to gain at all.
Regardless of whether the epitaph is solved or not, Beato has nothing to gain.
Her goal is not to make someone experience fear.
And it isn't to have revenge on someone either.
Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure.

If the murders are never for pleasure, does that necessarily mean Beato doesn't enjoy them? And what about the letter given to Maria concerning the gold?

Well I always had problems seeing Jessica/Shannon whoever run around killing people because Battler doesn't remember that he promised her something.
But maybe Beatrice hersef isn't the one who pulls the strings or the real motive Beatrice murders for was triggered by that sin and isn't the motive itself.

[RockReborn]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

Well I always had problems seeing Jessica/Shannon whoever run around killing people because Battler doesn't remember that he promised her something.
But maybe Beatrice hersef isn't the one who pulls the strings or the real motive Beatrice murders for was triggered by that sin and isn't the motive itself.

Yeah, that's what makes the most sense to me, but that then raises the question of whether Beatrice is even an accomplice, let alone a culprit. If not, then can the motive of the true mastermind be for the gold without contradicting the red?

[Renall]

As I always point out, the red isn't contradicted in any way if Beatrice never committed a murder at all. Depending on how you read it, that either means the red is totally useless (if it refers to Meta-Beatrice, as she never kills anyone anyway), or it only applies to the character who is "Beatrice," which it is now very clear is a single person.

But that doesn't mean someone isn't killing for that reason who isn't Beatrice. Or that such a person isn't exploiting the Beatrice legend. They just aren't "Beatrice."