[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[roriconfan]

Haha, that was hilarious too!
Well, if you think about it Naruto did insert samurais to get into Bleach fandom and Bleach does have its own ninja division to get some Naruto fandom.

In the meantime, One Piece is doing just fine by using good old Dragonball gags. Divide and conquer is the name of the game.

[RadiantBeam]

So... my friend just let me borrow her volumes of Zombie Powder, Kubo's first work before he started Bleach...

...

And is it a bad thing that I wish he'd continued it instead of canceling it after four volumes and starting Bleach?

[WhiteWings]

What went wrong? Bad guys died like flies in a very short amount of time and no clear future is in sight at this time. I mean the Espada is pretty much almost gone.

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

So... my friend just let me borrow her volumes of Zombie Powder, Kubo's first work before he started Bleach...

...

And is it a bad thing that I wish he'd continued it instead of canceling it after four volumes and starting Bleach?

That's not a bad thing, that's a common thing XD
Zombie Powder might have more planned plot :P

Originally Posted by WhiteWings

What went wrong? Bad guys died like flies in a very short amount of time and no clear future is in sight at this time. I mean the Espada is pretty much almost gone.

Well, to make things right maybe Kubo will kill Vaizards now (not SS cast, god No, they have higher poll ranking).

[paradox13]

Bleach is boring

[Wiggy Fuzz]

thanks for digging up this old topic and putting it on the front page with that useless comment.

you could have picked something more useful to talk about >.>

[kitten320]

^Well it's not like you said anything useful either

Anyway the big thing where it went wrong is with positive cast becoming immortal... change it and Bleach might become exciting again.

[Langus]

Things Kubo needs to do to redeem Bleach:

1.) Kill off a main character - someone close to Ichigo.
-> This could be his father, Rukia, Orihime, or Chad. Take your pick. This has to be hard, sad, unexpected and absolutely gut wrenching to read (see point 4). Have the death of this character be a pivotal life changing moment for Ichigo (read: the thing that gives him what he needs to defeat the main antagonist whether it's power/insanity/drive whatever)

2.) Get rid of Aizen as the main antagonist. Have someone behind Aizen pulling the strings, someone we couldn't have suspected. Make that reveal the most ultimate mind blowing moment ever.

3.) Kill off about 75% of the cast. There are far too many characters floating around and only about 1/3 of them are important. Given that they're supposed to be in a war the casualty list is laughably thin.

4.) Create emotional conflict that DOESN'T revolve around Ichigo's feelings of insecurity with regards to his fighting abilities.
-> Readers need to be emotionally invested in the characters and currently I don't think many are.

The reason the SS arc was so successful was that readers wanted to know what was going to happen to Rukia (among other reasons of course). Ichigo's sole purpose for training and going to SS was to rescue his friend from imminent death. The plot had a clear start, middle, climax and end. Until the moment he actually did rescue Rukia no one could have predicted how it would turn out and it wasn't obvious that Aizen was the true mastermind behind everything.

5.) Scrap everything that happened after the SS arc.

Feel free to add to the list.

[kitten320]

^A very good list with which I need to agree.

1. For Ichigo finally failing to protect someone, it sure will have huge impact and he might re-think everything and actually become cool instead of being plain lame as he usually is. And it also would make all upcoming fights so much more entertaining since you wouldn't know the outcme.

2. Also true, Aizen started great but now it is just getting repetitive and boring. I really wouldn't mind Gin in his place though it won't be unexpected... or Urahara

[kakakka]

1.) Kill off a main character - someone close to Ichigo.

Eh, even if they kill a main character now, for me, it's not going to have any impact except the fact that they did kill a main cast. The focus was already long gone away from them because of the pace the authour was doing in his story. Attempting that in the future would end up either as: predictable because of the pace (flashback) the authour would put into it; or it would be too fast there is no time for anything.

3.) Kill off about 75% of the cast.

The war has gone down long ago, there is no way to redeem it even if they kill the characters off now and became the casualties of that war.

Setting aside characters that aren't important in the future and focus on the characters that are important, are already enough for me.

[Kafriel]

1.) Kill off a main character - someone close to Ichigo.
-> This could be his father, Rukia, Orihime, or Chad. Take your pick. This has to be hard, sad, unexpected and absolutely gut wrenching to read (see point 4). Have the death of this character be a pivotal life changing moment for Ichigo (read: the thing that gives him what he needs to defeat the main antagonist whether it's power/insanity/drive whatever)

I pick Chad, because he is his best friend from school, which represents Ichigo's actual life of peace.

2.) Get rid of Aizen as the main antagonist. Have someone behind Aizen pulling the strings, someone we couldn't have suspected. Make that reveal the most ultimate mind blowing moment ever.

I don't mind Aizen being the final villain, as long as it's done right....white body suit ain't right! Barragan could have played an important role as villain, being the HM king and all, but alas, he's gone.

4.) Create emotional conflict that DOESN'T revolve around Ichigo's feelings of insecurity with regards to his fighting abilities.

Sounds close to impossible, I just can't put my finger on why...

Feel free to add to the list.

Directly involve Ichigo in whatever adventure he's supposed to be taking part in. Currently he's a sub working for a military organization he barely knows, his life consists of being everyone's puppet and having little to no say in what he does and how he does it. Not really a suitable attitude for the protagonist.

[Haak]

I think it would be quite difficult to convincingly kill off the main character at this point without making it look odd. If he was killed then it would have to be a 'end of part 1' or something like that, like in Naruto.

But I agree with killing off 75% of the cast. A good Aizen massacre would be just what he need.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I don't mind Aizen being the final villain, as long as it's done right....

I think the ship has sailed on that one. I don't think there is anything Aizen can do to redeem himself as a villain imo. Really, Aizen just proves how an all powerful, incredibly intellgent, and infallible villain can make for a very boring villain.

honestly, i roll my eyes at the end of every chapter now since it either ends with "OMFG Aizen's so powerful" or "Aizen just took a really powerful blow but everyone knows he's not at all hurt because he's just so powerful"... even when he's striking down every other good guy, I fail to see anything even remotely entertaining about him

frankly Gin makes for a better villain... his personality makes it more entertaining to hear him talk... he's got more badass points; slicing hiyori in half was much more badass then striking down half-dozen captains (it's not how many you defeat, but how you do it)... and his background with Matsumoto might give some potential to make him a more complex character than Aizen ever was.

[kitten320]

Aizen is simply becoming lame. It is always "As I planned" or "Look! I have another mega power!".

Of course it is better him than Ichigo, but somehow even though I hate Ichigo he still looks way cooler when doing that...

[King Lycan]

Two people
Inoue And Aizen -_-

[Taco Bell]

have yama come back with his one arm and bankai blow up the city to end bleach.

[Haak]

Aizen is quite possibily the best example of Only The Author Can save Them Now.

[Langus]

Couldn't agree more with all of the above.

@ kakakka - I think Kubo could reasonably kill off Isshin (Ichigo's Dad) at this point in time and have it work out. Since everyone else he cares about is in HM it would really be the only option.

Losing his mother when he was younger was a life altering moment for Ichigo. It took him nearly a decade to get over the guilt. One can only image the impact the death of his only living parent left, his father, would have on him. Especially given that Isshin is a shinigami, still with no explanation, and how he has been owning so far in his fight with Aizen.

@ Kafriel - My problem with Aizen is that he's too much of everything. He's all powerful, he's all knowing, you can't touch him or kill him...and all of that has made him boring. There's nothing left that I find even remotely interesting about the guy. I almost choked on my beer when I read his admission that Urahara was smarter than him because it seemed so out of character. He's become a pun and a crappy one.

Slayerx - I love this idea. Gin makes an incredible villain because he just doesn't give a shit and his connection to Matsumoto creates drama and interest. I hope he sticks around till series end, I really do.

[roriconfan]

Sometimes I think Aizen is Monster's Yohan twin brother.
I think we all learned that you must never make your archvillain indestructible. It never works.

[Mangs]

Originally Posted by Langus

Things Kubo needs to do to redeem Bleach:

1.) Kill off a main character - someone close to Ichigo.
-> This could be his father, Rukia, Orihime, or Chad. Take your pick. This has to be hard, sad, unexpected and absolutely gut wrenching to read (see point 4). Have the death of this character be a pivotal life changing moment for Ichigo (read: the thing that gives him what he needs to defeat the main antagonist whether it's power/insanity/drive whatever)

2.) Get rid of Aizen as the main antagonist. Have someone behind Aizen pulling the strings, someone we couldn't have suspected. Make that reveal the most ultimate mind blowing moment ever.

3.) Kill off about 75% of the cast. There are far too many characters floating around and only about 1/3 of them are important. Given that they're supposed to be in a war the casualty list is laughably thin.

4.) Create emotional conflict that DOESN'T revolve around Ichigo's feelings of insecurity with regards to his fighting abilities.
-> Readers need to be emotionally invested in the characters and currently I don't think many are.

The reason the SS arc was so successful was that readers wanted to know what was going to happen to Rukia (among other reasons of course). Ichigo's sole purpose for training and going to SS was to rescue his friend from imminent death. The plot had a clear start, middle, climax and end. Until the moment he actually did rescue Rukia no one could have predicted how it would turn out and it wasn't obvious that Aizen was the true mastermind behind everything.

5.) Scrap everything that happened after the SS arc.

Feel free to add to the list.

Man, after reading that list, I'm starting to get upset over the fact that YOU aren't the one writing Bleach.

You pretty much summed up everything I hate about it, and if just one of your points had been implemented the series would be so much better.