Character Discussion - Suzaku

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Yeah well we don't want to like Shniezel but he hasn't done anything yet. What do you want us to say? We hate Shniezel because he looks evil and he could possibly be menacingly. As for Suzaku, well he is more badass now but I wish he wasn't constantly on the wrong side. If it looks like tyranny it probably is. I mean unless Lelouch dies and Suzaku has some inner monologue coming right out of blue being all "all according to plan".

So:

Suzaku being in Britannian side = wrong side
Suzaku betraying Emperor = wrong side
Suzaku working with Lulu = right and then convert to wrong.

You guys are fun.

@soldier: kind of. But he DOESN'T always behind excuses. He got a lot better in beginning of R2. But I rather have that than him now or him in R1.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Yeah well we don't want to like Shniezel but he hasn't done anything yet. What do you want us to say? We hate Shniezel because he looks evil and he could possibly be menacingly. As for Suzaku, well he is more badass now but I wish he wasn't constantly on the wrong side. If it looks like tyranny it probably is. I mean unless Lelouch dies and Suzaku has some inner monologue coming right out of the blue being all "all according to plan".

All I'm saying is don't jump the boat over to Schenzeil's side. Especially when the next episode is title "Schenzeil's mask"

I mean seriously, just 2 episodes ago the guy was planning to take over the Empire with him as Emperor.

@soldier: kind of. But he DOESN'T always behind excuses. He got a lot better in beginning of R2. But I rather have that than him now or him in R1.

Yeah well deaths of close people tend to do that. He got a little better after Euphie's death. Then came Nunnally....(At least for that point but he's not going to betray Lelouch this time).

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

You my friend need to snap out of it.

Other way around actually.

You seriously want Suzaku to go back to that guy who hides behind excuses and makes up stuff? That's not who he is and never was. He admitted that he was lying to himself the whole time.

No. I want him to go back to being a kind person with VALUES. He doesn't HAVE values anymore. he is a demi-Lelouch now. And I don't like that one bit. The one reason I liked Suzaku when I started watching this series is because he had those values that he tried to uphold. Now, the main reason I liked him is slipping away.

That and you don't even know the full extent of their plans yet your willing to jump to Schenzeil's boat already and bowing to him and believing every word he says.

Hey, Schneizel hasn't done anything yet. What? Drop two nukes? So did the USA to end a war. If Schneizel becomes Harry S. Truman of Code geass, I won't have complaints. Oh, and as I said in my first post in the Ep. 22 topic, "until further notice, GO SCHNEIZEL!" If Schneizel does something evil, then I will probably change my mind, but, boy, it better be really sinister and evil for that to happen.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Orga777

I think Suzaku needs to snap out of it now... For the sake of all those long debates I spent defending him. Please don't make them be in vain... Please get back to normal Suzaku...

Not going to happen. Hell, it looks like it's Suzaku who is pushing Lelouch to continue their Zero Requiem in the next episode. Suzaku is determined to stay on this path.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

So:

Suzaku being in Britannian side = wrong side
Suzaku betraying Emperor = wrong side
Suzaku working with Lulu = right and then convert to wrong.

You guys are fun.

@soldier: kind of. But he DOESN'T always behind excuses. He got a lot better in beginning of R2. But I rather have that than him now or him in R1.

Well I've always liked Suzaku because he is a bad ass pilot but Suzaku and UFN is ideal for me

[Ryu-kun]

I like Suzaku the way he tries to pursue his ideals and how passionate he can be and atleast hes honest.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Other way around actually.

My friend.

This show is about Lelouch who is the hero of the story. This is WHY I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. Remember his plans has not yet come to fruitition.

"we need to conquer the world first...."

"you will do it right?"

"yes, for the Zero Requiem"

No. I want him to go back to being a kind person with VALUES. He doesn't HAVE values anymore. he is a demi-Lelouch now. And I don't like that one bit. The one reason I liked Suzaku when I started watching this series is because he had those values that he tried to uphold. Now, the main reason I liked him is slipping away.

Dude that was all lies. You want him to go back to being a liar?

Hey, Schneizel hasn't done anything yet. What? Drop two nukes? So did the USA to end a war. If Schneizel becomes Harry S. Truman of Code geass, I won't have complaints. Oh, and as I said in my first post in the Ep. 22 topic, "until further notice, GO SCHNEIZEL!" If Schneizel does something evil, then I will probably change my mind, but, boy, it better be really sinister and evil for that to happen.

What? Not having a giant fortress that allows him to nuke any place he wants is not sinister? He literally can control the world from that point.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

My friend.

This show is about Lelouch who is the hero of the story. This is WHY I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. Remember his plans has not yet come to fruitition.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt enough times. He keeps choking it away. He is becoming less the hero, and more the villain.

"we need to conquer the world first...."

"you will do it right?"

"yes, for the Zero Requiem"

At what cost will they go to go down that road. The cost of the world?

Dude that was all lies. You want him to go back to being a liar?

How was "the ends don't justify the means" a lie? They weren't lies. He was just lost it after the FLEIJA incident and he thought this way now. Results aren't everything. Haven't we learned that already?

What? Not having a giant fortress that allows him to nuke any place he wants is not sinister? He literally can control the world from that point.

Oh? And that is any worse than Lelouch at this point? Yeah, I think not. Schneizel's hand was forced. Just like the United States hand was forced to use Nukes. And you know what? No more have been dropped since then huh?

People are looking at this as honestly nothing more than evil. When really, Nukes are a great deterrent to conflict. Schneizel used them when he had to. And until I see something to (again) change my mind, I have to say that he is (currently) the lesser of two evils.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Oh? And that is any worse than Lelouch at this point? Yeah, I think not. Schneizel's hand was forced. Just like the United States hand was forced to use Nukes. And you know what? No more have been dropped since then huh?

People are looking at this as honestly nothing more than evil. When really, Nukes are a great deterrent to conflict. Schneizel used them when he had to. And until I see something to (again) change my mind, I have to say that he is (currently) the lesser of two evils.

The United States wanted to nuke China but the president kept that order back because doing so would get the Russians involved and they would send THEIR nukes back.

Oh wait that's why nukes are great deterrant. Because the OTHER guy has them as well.

Otherwise Schenzeil's nukes are nothing more than just another death star used to intimidate and cow people into fear and under his control only. That is no more different than Lelouch taking the world under his control.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The United States wanted to nuke China but the president kept that order back because doing so would get the Russians involved and they would send THEIR nukes back.

Oh wait that's why nukes are great deterrant. Because the other guy has them as well.

Otherwise Schenzeil's nukes are nothing more than just another death star used to intimidate and cow people into fear and under his control only.

Oh really now? Guess what? The Soviets didn't have Nukes the same time we first did. They didn't get them till later. So... I fail to see your point. If we didn't drop them again or force the Soviets to back completely out of Europe with them as a threat, then I have a strange feeling that we really shouldn't jump to conclusions yet here.

[FlareKnight]

Well considering the plan is called the "Zero Requiem" doesn't seem like survival is the big plan here. Guess they intend to solve all the problems and make that kind world. Through whatever methods they need in order to get there.

Maybe they intend to die or something after that is settled. They will be remembered as a dark pair in the history books. Thus what Euphy did will be barely remembered overall. World doesn't have to be grateful in their minds long as the end result is better overall.

Anyways have to say I'm pleased since Suzaku and the Albion finally got their moment of glory.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Oh really now? Guess what? The Soviets didn't have Nukes the same time we first did. They didn't get them till later. So... I fail to see your point.

The US was never a country out to control the world. THey got the nuke so they used it on Japan to force them to surrender. End of story.

Then comes the Korean war, they wanted to nuke China(now they had a reason to) but the president held that back because doing so the Russians would enter and fire BACK nukes as well.

Therefore you get deterrance, if you shoot a nuke then the other guy shoots back then you destroy each other. Mutually assured destruction. The basis of nuclear deterrance which you so seem happy to use to defend Schenzeil.

Schenzeil is the only one that has nukes so he's pretty much the guy with the death star and no one can voice their own opinions if they don't want to be under his control.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

You need to brush up history.

The US was never a country out to control the world. THey got the nuke so they used it on Japan to force them to surrender. End of story.

You are right... but we have evidence right now that Schneizel is out to control the entire world? What we know of him so far is... well, going against that.

Can it change? Sure can, but right NOW, I don't see it, and if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt right now, it is Schneizel.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Orga777

You are right... but we have evidence right now that Schneizel is out to control the entire world? What we know of him so far is... well, going against that.

Can it change? Sure can, but right NOW, I don't see it, and if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt right now, it is Schneizel.

The guy himself was talking about taking over the empire TWO EPISODES ago and becoming emperor. He even discussed with Gino and Cornelia about what it takes to be a true leader.

[El_Negro]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The US was never a country out to control the world. THey got the nuke so they used it on Japan to force them to surrender. End of story.

Then comes the Korean war, they wanted to nuke China(now they had a reason to) but the president held that back because doing so the Russians would enter and fire BACK nukes as well.

Therefore you get deterrance, if you shoot a nuke then the other guy shoots back then you destroy each other. Mutually assured destruction. The basis of nuclear deterrance which you so seem happy to use to defend Schenzeil.

Schenzeil is the only one that has nukes so he's pretty much the guy with the death star and no one can voice their own opinions if they don't want to be under his control.

I guess that's why Nina is in hiding, the episode showed that she was hiding out in Ashford since the other countries probably the UFN are seeking her out, is it to get her to construct more Freya warheads 4 them so as to balance out the power? It's a question of who has the biggest gun

[yezhanquan]

Er.... this is the Suzaku thread....

Anyway, finally, we can call him the White Devil. Finally.

[Micante]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Er.... this is the Suzaku thread....

Anyway, finally, we can call him the White Devil. Finally.

White Reaper.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by El_Negro

I guess that's why Nina is in hiding, the episode showed that she was hiding out in Ashford since the other countries probably the UFN are seeking her out, is it to get her to construct more Freya warheads 4 them so as to balance out the power? It's a question of who has the biggest gun

I'm willing to bet that if it was up to her she'd rather take the secrets about FREIYA down to the grave with her.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The guy himself was talking about taking over the empire TWO EPISODES ago and becoming emperor. He even discussed with Gino and Cornelia about what it takes to be a true leader.

Um, hold on now. First off, he may have been planning to take out his father from the beginning, but really, look at the reasons why. He can't stand him and he found him to be delusional and an unfit ruler. Also, remember what he said to Cornelia and Gino in that discussion? "Maybe." What is his other definition of authority? Is it aggression? Or is it kindness? We will know next episode won't we?

Why would he say "Maybe" if he was so sure he was good enough for the thrown? Perhaps he doesn't even see himself as someone that can do it right (I did say when someone brought up the Damocles story of what Schneizel is, I said he could possibly be the Sword even then, and that may indeed be true.)

Also, if he was so dead set on that, he could have taken the thrown while Lelouch was away for that month. He didn't and he waited. Why would he do that? He could easily plan around it so Lelouch couldn't be able to use Geass after all. But he waited instead? Why is that?

So again, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he turns out to be worse than Lelouch next episode, I will be the first one to say I was wrong. But until I see it, he gets what I gave Lelouch about five times through this entire series. A benefit of the doubt.

EDIT: here is the Damocles story by the way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damocles

[NoLongerSane]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Er.... this is the Suzaku thread....

Anyway, finally, we can call him the White Devil. Finally.

I thought White Devil was from the second Ace Ventura film that the fool was being called by the natives.

Anyway, I wonder how Suzaku is going to react to Gino now? There is a high chance that Gino will want to change his friend's mind. Also add Kallen to the mix since it is a probablity that she will be teaming up with Gino just for that purpose.