2013-04-06, 04:01 | Link #681 |
The Unpronounceable
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clock Tower
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Personally, I would prefer if we explored more of Earth. Might just be my "inner Earth fanboy" speaking, but hey.
For example, how would Vivio react to her mother's home planet? If Nanoha is on vacation, why didn't take the girl home and properly introduces her to her family? Talking over the phone can do so much, and personal interactions are much more interesting. Then there's Suzuka's implied vampire lineage. Now I know it isn't evident - Sansker, ignore this since this is under element - but well, the fact that Suzuka reversed Fate's dodgeball without any injuries provoke a few questions, namely where did that strength come from? She's 9 at the time, remember? |
2013-04-06, 04:09 | Link #682 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Also, there's Innocent in which none of the cast has tragic pasts too. |
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2013-04-06, 04:10 | Link #683 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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I'd say Tsuzukas strength would be surprising if anime didn't always have inhumanly strong characters for no apparent reason. I'm gonna have to assume that's the case here too since nothing was ever mentioned about it that I know of.
____________ And yeah, Kaijo's pro at making baseless assumptions and flaunting them around like factual evidence.
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Last edited by Demi.; 2013-04-06 at 04:20. |
2013-04-06, 06:38 | Link #685 | |||||
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So Dr. Tofu helps round off Akane's character a bit, and makes it clear that Akane is not necessarily adverse to romance itself. Which, of course, makes things more interesting. But once Dr. Tofu makes that clear, his role beyond that is problematic. Like Kaijo wrote, Tofu's a smooth, caring, emotionally mature man. In a chaotic slapstick-comedy world like Ranma's, where you have to drag romantic conflict out as much as possible, he could actually counteract the mood of the property. With all of this in mind, do you know what I think is the main reason Yuuno is all but gone? Because the series shifted heavily from magical girl to mecha. And Yuuno is much more "magical girl" in his character design and role than he is "mecha". Yuuno starts out as the classic magical girl familiar (hence his ferret form). Such a character type almost needs a Sakura Kinimoto to work with. Unfortunately for him, his "Sakura Kinimoto" (i.e. Nanoha) was rather mature, only needed MGF help/instruction for a short time, and soon outgrew any practical need for Yuuno's help (this was especially true after the mecha shift that began with cartridges in A's). Arf is similar. She's literally a magical girl familiar (i.e. she's Fate's familiar). Magical girl familiars typically have two purposes: 1. Introduce the main mission of the narrative to the magical girl(s), and support her (or them) in it up until that mission is completed. This could be collecting Clow Cards, collecting Jewel Seeds, or simply raising awareness to the existence of powerful antagonists that need to be defeated. 2. Be teachers and training wheels for magical girls. For Yuuno and Arf, No. 1 was accomplished (or kinda failed, in Arf's case) at the end of the original anime. And for No. 2, Nanoha and Fate soon outgrew the need for teachers and training wheels. Again, the introduction of cartridges in A's spelled Yuuno and Arf's fate as much as anything did. For Yuuno and Arf to maintain significant screen-presence and roles going forward, you need to either create new roles for them out of whole-cloth (the librarian role means that Yuuno doesn't totally disappear, but in a property this action-oriented it does greatly minimize his presence) or find a new Sakura Kinimoto for them. Here is where Vivio could have saved Yuuno and/or Arf from obscurity. However, Vivid didn't go in that direction. Quote:
Too much cast enlargement creates redundancy, which is deadly to supporting cast characters. Characters must serve specific narrative roles, or their relevancy quickly dwindles. Before creating a new character to serve a specific role, a writer should ask himself/herself "Is there a existing character that could fulfill this role and benefit from having that role given to him/her?" You're right, giving Verossa's role to Yuuno would be better than having people going "Who the hell is this green-haired guy?" (which honestly is how I recall reacting to Verossa's action scenes in StrikerS ). Quote:
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But Star Trek has fans beyond the Trekkies. And similarly, Nanoha has fans beyond the hardcore of the hardcore. For some anime fans, Nanoha is their favorite anime show of all-time. So they care about every last nook and cranny of the Nanoha franchise. But for numerous other anime fans, Nanoha is simply one of many anime shows they liked. For these less hardcore fans, dwindling character presence naturally means they care less about those characters. In some cases, they may literally forget about certain characters. Quote:
Anyway, Keroko already addressed the logical issues with your anti-NanoFate argument, so I'll skip that.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2013-04-06 at 07:07. |
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2013-04-06, 07:53 | Link #686 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Vivid features Nanoha and Fate's adopted daughter, and Nanoha and Fate show up often enough in cute homey scenes or in large practice battles or in the stands, cheering. In a big way, Vivid is "proof" of NanoFate, especially since Yuuno doesn't get one appearance or mention.
Force would have been an awesome story if Nanoha and Fate had never shown their faces and taken over the show. Force didn't need anything but Touma, the other new characters, and maybe just Subaru, Teana and the other reformed Numbers. Quote:
I don't mind that, really. But it's still about the moe. |
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2013-04-06, 08:55 | Link #687 |
Senior Member
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Some people on this thread have really tipped their hat to their passionate anti-NanoFate bias (and even to a possible anti-Nanoha and/or anti-Fate bias in some cases).
You're not fooling anybody any more, guys. It's time to drop the pretense of objectivity, and admit that you just don't like the pairing. That's fine. We all have anime pairings we don't like.
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2013-04-06, 09:01 | Link #688 |
Left for TFF
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I never once stated that I was a NanoFate fan.
I was at one point, however. But then I *DARED* to write a Non-NanoFate fic and what I got from the fanbase has forever put me off on pure NanoFate. I'm a Nanoha fan, plain and simple. I'm not a Fate fan, I LIKE her, but I'm not a fan of hers. Remember, Fan is short for Fanatic. So, yes, I'm a fan of Nanoha, it took me awhile, but I eventually became a fan of Hayate and Yuuno both. Interestingly enough, it was Subaru, Nove, Wendi and Teana from StrikerS that I ended up liking the most. That being said, Sette is still one of my favorite characters in the franchise. In fact, it's easier to give a list of character that I do NOT like instead of a list I do like. Precia Quattro Graham Regius and even Rio. Yes, I don't really like Rio much at all, is she unlikable, no, I just don't like her. I don't have much to say about most of the new characters in ViVid or Force (Einhart, Isis, Touma, Arnage, Lolo! <3) due to the fact that I fell behind and I still haven't caught up yet.
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2013-04-06, 09:11 | Link #689 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Sometimes I wonder if every active member left on this board has been wronged by a NanoFate fan at one point and lead them to hold some undying grudge against the pairing...Because I hear this sob story brought up often.
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2013-04-06, 09:13 | Link #690 | ||
Banned
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And Force and Vivid prove another point I made before, about how you don't need NanoFate focus to make this series successful. Hence, you can drop the NanoFate scenes and the dream eater sequence, and the A's movie would still have been successful. Otaku will still buy everything regardless. Not every show has moe, but it has crept more and more into many anime shows. For those of us who grew up on 80's and 90's anime, moe was practically nowhere to be found, so we notice it more than the young who came in much later. In early anime, the female type most desired was the Yamato Nadeshiko type that anime fans would go for. Take K-On for example, a show about nothing. Oh, it's something about girls making a band, but they hardly play their instruments, and spend their time doing cute things... and it's hugely popular with otaku. Madoka gets its major lift from moe. If, Demi, you need proof, then I suggest you check out anime like Macademi WAsshoi! The moe/otaku phenomenon is pointed out and/or lampshaded. Also see: anime like Midori Days and Genshiken. What sells, what appeals to the otaku, is very well-known. Quote:
If you truly think I hate NanoFate, then you haven't read chapter 21 of Future Tense. You haven't read any of my fics, like Pleasant Dinner Conversation or Whipped. And you haven't read the fanfiction of people have written here. If you had, you'd know damn well that they do like Fate and NanoFate, but it is a tempered, more nuanced position. Oh, it's not just that, although there has been plenty of it. I doubt you'd find someone here who hasn't spent time on another forum where the NanoFate bias destroyed any semblence of honest conversation. Me? I don't care too much what happens to me. But I've had people try to post my fics like Future Tense to a NanoFate board, only to have it deleted and the person banned. And that fic had one of the best NanoFate chapters people feel I have ever written! |
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2013-04-06, 09:16 | Link #691 | |
Senior Member
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You're not one of the people I'm talking about. You've been admirably up-front and honest about your likes, dislikes, and biases.
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Because I don't think we're supposed to like the personality of Precia or Quattro. But they are supposed to be compelling/entertaining antagonists, and they were for me at least. Still, I wouldn't particularly want to be there friends, lol.
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2013-04-06, 09:22 | Link #692 | |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Though I really would like to know where you guys meet these people, I frequent NanoFate.us all the time and they are nothing like that.
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2013-04-06, 09:34 | Link #693 | ||
Left for TFF
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Part of it is personality, but while I sympathize with Precia, I doubt I'll ever truly like her (even if Innocent has her likeable and I did make her somewhat more likeable in my fic). Same with Graham, I sympathize with him, but he needed more comeuppance, or at least he should have had to face Hayate (we KNOW she'd forgive him, but he should have had to face her). Regius, again, you can sympathize with his situation, but he went about it the wrong way. Quattro, my favorite moment of her will always be... "She's going to blast through here? Oh dear mother of god!" "Blaster THREE! DIVINE!" *Clack, clack, clack, drop clip, reload* "BUSTER!" "NYAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!" *BOOOM!* As for Rio, just something about her that I don't like, that's all. (Just a bunch of little things that add up together that bugs me about her) Quote:
As for who... Try Haru. He STILL gets Super defensive about NanoFate EVERYWHERE! Hell, even HINT that Fate could be shipped with someone else (like Erio for example) and he'll show up and start slamming the idea and how only Nanoha is the only person for Fate and no one else is. Trust me, he goes around DA doing that.
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2013-04-06, 09:45 | Link #694 | |
Banned
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But as I said, it is a complicated fic, with complicated releationships, and a bit long. So I don't expect too many people to get into it. |
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2013-04-06, 09:52 | Link #695 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Well Haru must turn into a completely different fellow when NanoFate is threatened, because he seems like a very helpful/friendly guy to me.
Though not romantically involved? Were they romantically involved with some one else?
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2013-04-06, 09:56 | Link #697 |
Professor Lech
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Somewhere in Asia
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So can one be a Nanoha and Fate fan without being a NanoFate fan?
Because I am a Nanoha and Fate fan. However, I don't really believe that Nanoha likes Fate or vice versa in that way. In my eyes, they're more like really best friends, or I think the term is platonic life partners. And arguing with rabid fans of a certain pairing, while fun to do, gets old after a while.
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2013-04-06, 09:58 | Link #700 |
Left for TFF
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I would like to think so.
Sure, it's fun to ship two characters you're a fan of together, but you don't have to be a fan of the ship to be fans of the characters. Case in point, I'm a fan of Yuuno and Hayate, but I don't ship them together (unless I feel like exploring what that relationship could be like).
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