AnimeSuki Forums

Ithekro · 2011-11-29, 18:24

I see. I looked it up and there was basically a single paragraph that says about that in the section about lightsabers (the increased use of personal shields and all in the Old Republic series). I knew about the metals and things that can resist lightsabers, but they were supposely rare...at least in Luke's time. To make the blade rather common seemed odd. But then again we don't see personal shields (for the most part) in the Clone Wars and afterwards (outside games like Dark Forces where the player needs it to survive going solo against armies and bases).

It is I guess like the concept from Dune with slow blades and slow weapons piercing the shields and such in order for there to be a reason to have high class nobles knife fight in a sci-fi world.

lightbringer · 2011-11-29, 19:03

The training blade does look silly but you gotta use something until you get your lightsaber. I just wish enemies used vibroblades and not training blades, they look just as silly as you do at the start.

If you're worried about minor stuff like that, you'll likely be disappointed when you see all the pre-order people running around with their yellow-with-black-core lightsabers come release... might want to give it a couple of weeks for them to upgrade to other crystals

HurricaneHige · 2011-11-29, 23:18

Hm...I'm little divided on the pre-order now....wondering if I should cancel it.

On one hand, the game isn't too bad, story wise its the best mmo story since...ever. The VO is amazing, and the lightsabers are plenty awesome.

On the other hand, the community seemed god awful, worst I've seen since I started playing MMO more than ten years ago. The game is unpolished, imba, and not exactly ground breaking. After going through two betas with 3 different classes, I feel the game is too heavily influenced by WoW (not a WoW clone, but influenced by). A lot of games after WoW are, and they failed to escape the shadows. I myself do not like WoW, and what it stood for...so for me to play another game heavily influenced by it is a pill difficult to swallow.

Going to have to give it some more thoughts.

Xacual · 2011-11-29, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHige

Hm...I'm little divided on the pre-order now....wondering if I should cancel it.

On one hand, the game isn't too bad, story wise its the best mmo story since...ever. The VO is amazing, and the lightsabers are plenty awesome.

On the other hand, the community seemed god awful, worst I've seen since I started playing MMO more than ten years ago. The game is unpolished, imba, and not exactly ground breaking. After going through two betas with 3 different classes, I feel the game is too heavily influenced by WoW (not a WoW clone, but influenced by). A lot of games after WoW are, and they failed to escape the shadows. I myself do not like WoW, and what it stood for...so for me to play another game heavily influenced by it is a pill difficult to swallow.

Going to have to give it some more thoughts.

If you are talking about the community during the stress test there was a lot of people there that weren't planning on getting it and just trying it out for nothing else to do. There are a decent amount of people though that just don't stop talking about other MMOs and bashing them or bringing up WoW telling people to go back there whenever the game is criticized at all.

Honestly other than my computer not being able to run the game(which reminds me I still need to cancel my preorder) I'm more worried about what is going to be at endgame. Since it seems like it's just the same flashpoints and one raid(operation?) I foresee a lot of people running out of things to do unless Bioware is on the ball for content. A large portion of the MMO community is really harsh when it comes to that.

Ithekro · 2011-11-29, 23:54

Well I would assume that the player community is made up of WoW players, so of course it will seem the same. I'm pretty sure that when I was reading the General chat it was mostly WoW like comments. Of course people were playing around since I saw a few LGF RFC ot LFG Hogger on there. But you could mostly ignore that. Plus that was mostly in the starting area and I think the second area before you get a starship. After that the chat got quieter and all I saw was spam her the local heroics.

I was playing basically like a single player game, just that there were other people running around...sometimes killing my mob (but that was really rare since I usually didn't have any "kill this mob" quests. But sometime it took a little while for things I needed to click to reset, making some quests take a while. Plus the trouble with the bonus quests that you don't get until you've killed X mobs, leading to a Kill this Mob quest that is usually at the end of an area...an area I was just leaving due to the number of people killing mobs (which for the actual quest if fine since you are going ot do something or get somewhere, not kill mobs) There are a few kill quests for drops that can be annoying, but those are rather few in number.

I don't imagine you will find a "good" community in an MMO. They are generally targeted towards high school and college students that might have free time to play. Some days are good, some days aren't (in WoW).

If you want a different style MMO, I guess you would need to wait for Guild Wars 2, but I can't think the community would be any better. Only the style of play.

(What dd WoW stand for anyway...I'm not sure what you mean by that statement)

creb · 2011-11-29, 23:54

There is no such thing as a decent MMO community as long as an MMO allows single player play and gear progression via "warzones" battlegrounds.

I hope I don't have to explain why.

What you do is find yourself a decent group of friends, and turn off all public channels so you can pretend all those other people on your server are just NPCs.

kuroishinigami · 2011-11-30, 00:01

Give me the preorder privilege then

. Joking aside, probably gonna buy this within the first 6 month and treat playing it as a single player game with occasional not-so-serious group with the non-hardcore player(I met a few on the beta). So, anyone who want people to group with just to have fun, feel free to give me a call on weekends after I get the game( I'll probably won't play much on weekdays due to work lol).

I'm tempted to buy it within a month, but I want to let the hardcore players leave the beginner area first. And if I'm lucky, there might already a price drop as a bonus

Ithekro · 2011-11-30, 00:14

I think I only grouped twice the entire weekend. Once in the first Heroic I wondered into. A guy came in behind me after I wiped three times and we proceeded to alternate who died on a pull. We made it though.

The second time was at one of those Bonus named elites that everyone was taking down. I was waiting my turn and eventually group with two other people who arrived...after seeing the guy die twice to other groups.

I did like that some quests give you a tough elite to kill, put if you've managed to complete the quest, you can just walk away on respawn, since killing it isn't part of the quest. The other times were you had to kill the named elite were more difficult solo. But in the Class event regions that's what you got to do. Like the Sith I had to kill to finish a quest...took six tries I think to kill him, and only after having a real look at my companions skills was I able to, barely, kill him.

I didn't test a lot of stuff. Never did any space battles. Never rally trained any skilled (took Synweaving for the XP quest only). I never raised my companions skills (He didn't ahve levels that I was aware of). I never got around to looking for what the badges could get you. that waws probably the one thing I should have checked..what gear or mods I could buy from the right dealer. I barely even looked at the ship parts seller just before I grabbed my ship, and that was to sell crap and repair really.

Never got a speeder since I only made it to level 19. I don't think I ever saw anyone with one come to think of it. mainly because I hadn't made it off the third planet yet.

creb · 2011-11-30, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

Give me the preorder privilege then

. Joking aside, probably gonna buy this within the first 6 month and treat playing it as a single player game with occasional not-so-serious group with the non-hardcore player(I met a few on the beta). So, anyone who want people to group with just to have fun, feel free to give me a call on weekends after I get the game( I'll probably won't play much on weekdays due to work lol).

I'm tempted to buy it within a month, but I want to let the hardcore players leave the beginner area first. And if I'm lucky, there might already a price drop as a bonus

I'm actually thinking about breaking my three year fast from MMOs to buy this, despite almost seven months of playing it in beta.

It's unclear how restrictive Bioware will be on how many copies will be available after Dec. 20. What many people don't realize is one of the other reasons for WoW's success is they carefully controlled how many boxes they sold, so if you didn't pre-order, or buy at release, you ended up paying $200 on ebay to buy a box for the next few months after release. If memory serves, Blizzard continued keeping an iron fist on the boxes they sold for a good four to five months after release.

I'm hoping Bioware won't be that restrictive on box sales, as they attempt to mimic a similar strategy (they've said they will be limiting sales in a similar fashion to how Blizzard had initially done so), but I will likely put in a preorder later this week regardless of whether I intend to actually play upon release, because I don't want to run the risk that it ends up being the WoW scenario all over again, and impossible to find outside of getting ripped off on ebay.

HurricaneHige · 2011-11-30, 00:18

Hmm, I actually managed to find good community in most MMO i played. In RO i had a tightly knitted guild. In L2 I was part of the dominant guild in my server, despite being assholes to other people we were close friends within. In Rohan I was in a very laid back and fun guild, even my enemies show respect after town wars. In Aion there were some bad apples, but enemies and friends were all relatively respectful. In TOR so far, nothing short of complete crap.

creb · 2011-11-30, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHige

Hmm, I actually managed to find good community in most MMO i played. In RO i had a tightly knitted guild. In L2 I was part of the dominant guild in my server, despite being assholes to other people we were close friends within. In Rohan I was in a very laid back and fun guild, even my enemies show respect after town wars. In Aion there were some bad apples, but enemies and friends were all relatively respectful. In TOR so far, nothing short of complete crap.

/shrug

I've played pretty much every MMO that came out in the west up 'till three years ago. Ever since MMOs stopped making people group and socialize and made it entirely optional, communities went to the crapper (though, obviously, player populations exploded when socializing and being a functional member of society was no longer required). L2, btw, I consider an oldschool MMO, where I suppose technically you can go "solo play", but that definitely wasn't the norm when I played it.

It's a basic rule of humanity really. When people are anonymous and have no need to rely on each other, social etiquette gets thrown out the window. That's why most internet forums are a morass of filth. We're very lucky the Animesuki moderators are as active as they are, or this forum would be very different.

kuroishinigami · 2011-11-30, 00:46

I also always manage to find some great friends in mmo I played. The key is stay away from the hardcore one who only cares about gaining levels and/or items I guess. One thing I don't like about mmo nowadays is the binding system of item. Exchanging gifts and giving items you don't need to someone is a good way to start makint casual online friend IMO, and it also reveals people's true nature much easier.

I just remember one more thing I didn't like in beta. I wish they include subtitle option in the voiced conversation in the game. Being a non native english speaker, hving subtitle will really help m enjoy the story a lot more.

lightbringer · 2011-11-30, 04:57

It'll probably be a bit better once we only have paying members, but not much. I don't hold much hope there - a PUG is like a dice roll:

1 - silent people who probably don't speak English
2 - loot ninjas
3 - people who will break every CC you do
4 - people with no patience whatsoever
5 - general asshats
6 - actually decent group members who are polite and competent

And the dice are loaded in favor of the first five

It's like this in every MMO I've ever played. Unfortunately, none of my IRL friends want to play MMOs. On the other hand, I am glad I can solo most of the time since what little spare time I have after work is also needed for manga, anime, and other games

I've grouped with many different players in the weekend beta and there were two or three people among them who were #6. The forums are full of crap over at SWTOR but I didn't feel that the actual players were any worse than any other MMO. Then again, my base standard is Eve Online so I have a thick skin.

What eventually happens is you run a PUG with someone who is not in the first five categories, and both of you are impressed enough that you friend each other and play together whenever an opportunity presents itself and help each other with your quests. Do this a couple of times and you have all the social interaction you need from an MMO as a casual player. Once you hit 50 you'll do PVP or other end-game content together. And if you find seven people like that you even have enough for SWTOR raids.

Keroko · 2011-11-30, 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHige

Hmm, I actually managed to find good community in most MMO i played. In RO i had a tightly knitted guild. In L2 I was part of the dominant guild in my server, despite being assholes to other people we were close friends within. In Rohan I was in a very laid back and fun guild, even my enemies show respect after town wars. In Aion there were some bad apples, but enemies and friends were all relatively respectful. In TOR so far, nothing short of complete crap.

Huh, the servers I was on (Khoonda Militia US and Handmaidens of Atris EU) had some of the best communities I've seen in a new MMO for a long time.

Hit or miss I guess.

But I notice that MMO communities often seem to improve or worsen in relation to the games success. The more successful a game, the worse the community, and the more a game fails and becomes niche, the better the community.

Kyero Fox · 2011-11-30, 08:02

you forgot 7. people who complain about someone taking loot that isn't exactly for their classs when no one else needed it, and its BETA!

Nixl · 2011-11-30, 08:59

HurricaneHige, I too noticed how toxic the chat and community was on Kita Tran, but to be perfectly honest that probably describes most mainstream MMOs nowadays. WoW and ToR are cut from the same clothe so to speak.

As strange as it sounds, even if you decide to play I would suggest waiting perhaps a month due to the fact that often the first month is a paid beta test. The only exception I heard of was Rift's launch.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2011-11-30, 09:23

People stopped being nice when they no longed needed each other. Yeah, instances, raids and completely soloable questing helped murder community (not saying that you should always need a group to level just that you should have to interact. At least TOR has co-op quests and the like to help balance it out). That and when it became 'cool' to play an MMO, I guess. That always attracts the douches.

At least back in the days of yore in EQ if someone was a douche, they were almost universally shunned and ignored, and were pretty much rendered unable to succeed and were left to a solitary life since no one would group with them. At least that's what I remember from Tarrew Marr, ninja from any of the top guilds and you were so boned you may as well quit the game. But in general, inter-guild relations were mostly friendly. Which I think had something do with with the non-instanced raids and having to share a 3-7 day lockout with other guilds because anything else would mean complete and total anarchy. Not that things didn't get heated from time to time, over crowded popular zones (Bastion of Thunder anyone?) had numerous contested spawns, which groups were fiercely protective of when you were on a grinding session.

I remember having two guilds at a final boss in a raid instance (Emperor Ssraeshza), and we each took turns at trying to kill him with our entire raids just sitting, watching and not interfering with the other guilds attempt. Then I compare it to the complete cluster that were the green dragons from WoW, or that demon guy I can't remember the name of.

Mmm, that anecdote kinda got away from me.

Point is, MMO's need more (forced?) player interaction to help build community, that's how a community is made.

(Lets not mention getting away from the tried and true, yet long in the tooth, hotkey style of play.)

Nixl · 2011-11-30, 10:14

I agree that part of it is due the prominence of solo progression, but at the same time I think the expectation that everyone should raid was far more prominent. In WoW, instances often became a race against time for collecting points, so that one could attend raids. If a member was not performing the job then it slowed down progression, which thus stalled point collection and thus impacted raid progression. That or, someone standing in the fire. Such an environment definitely creates impatience and stigma for players that don't keep up. That is not to say I hated WoW, I enjoyed my time, but I am way too busy to play at the moment.

I do not think TOR will escape that problem though. With the endgame being raids or instanced PVP I just see it walking down WoW's same path.

lightbringer · 2011-11-30, 10:35

I'll be honest here, I want to play TOR, and I am usually quite friendly in groups even when I am forced to tank or heal against my will (and against my spec), but if it had forced grouping like you describe I'd be the first to ragequit. Being often only able to login for an hour or two means I'd not be getting anything out of the game most of the time. Half the reason I wanna play TOR is because for me it's KOTOR 3, anyway

If the price of TOR being applicable to a wider audience is the prevalence of asshats, so be it. I will take it into account. Not every player you come across will be like that, you can surely find someone to group with.

kuroishinigami · 2011-11-30, 11:09

^ Couldn't agree more. I will treat it as a single player game with a multi-player feature like final fantasy type 0. It will be nice if I can find people who will casually do quest together, but that won't be my primary goal in playing this.

2011-11-29, 18:24	Link #681
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	I see. I looked it up and there was basically a single paragraph that says about that in the section about lightsabers (the increased use of personal shields and all in the Old Republic series). I knew about the metals and things that can resist lightsabers, but they were supposely rare...at least in Luke's time. To make the blade rather common seemed odd. But then again we don't see personal shields (for the most part) in the Clone Wars and afterwards (outside games like Dark Forces where the player needs it to survive going solo against armies and bases). It is I guess like the concept from Dune with slow blades and slow weapons piercing the shields and such in order for there to be a reason to have high class nobles knife fight in a sci-fi world. __________________

2011-11-29, 23:18	Link #683
HurricaneHige Uguu~ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada	Hm...I'm little divided on the pre-order now....wondering if I should cancel it. On one hand, the game isn't too bad, story wise its the best mmo story since...ever. The VO is amazing, and the lightsabers are plenty awesome. On the other hand, the community seemed god awful, worst I've seen since I started playing MMO more than ten years ago. The game is unpolished, imba, and not exactly ground breaking. After going through two betas with 3 different classes, I feel the game is too heavily influenced by WoW (not a WoW clone, but influenced by). A lot of games after WoW are, and they failed to escape the shadows. I myself do not like WoW, and what it stood for...so for me to play another game heavily influenced by it is a pill difficult to swallow. Going to have to give it some more thoughts. __________________ Sig's coming soon ~_~ (since 07....) My rant blog (omg i'm blogging now, and not just anime)

2011-11-29, 23:54	Link #685
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	Well I would assume that the player community is made up of WoW players, so of course it will seem the same. I'm pretty sure that when I was reading the General chat it was mostly WoW like comments. Of course people were playing around since I saw a few LGF RFC ot LFG Hogger on there. But you could mostly ignore that. Plus that was mostly in the starting area and I think the second area before you get a starship. After that the chat got quieter and all I saw was spam her the local heroics. I was playing basically like a single player game, just that there were other people running around...sometimes killing my mob (but that was really rare since I usually didn't have any "kill this mob" quests. But sometime it took a little while for things I needed to click to reset, making some quests take a while. Plus the trouble with the bonus quests that you don't get until you've killed X mobs, leading to a Kill this Mob quest that is usually at the end of an area...an area I was just leaving due to the number of people killing mobs (which for the actual quest if fine since you are going ot do something or get somewhere, not kill mobs) There are a few kill quests for drops that can be annoying, but those are rather few in number. I don't imagine you will find a "good" community in an MMO. They are generally targeted towards high school and college students that might have free time to play. Some days are good, some days aren't (in WoW). If you want a different style MMO, I guess you would need to wait for Guild Wars 2, but I can't think the community would be any better. Only the style of play. (What dd WoW stand for anyway...I'm not sure what you mean by that statement) __________________

2011-11-29, 23:54	Link #686
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	There is no such thing as a decent MMO community as long as an MMO allows single player play and gear progression via "warzones" battlegrounds. I hope I don't have to explain why. What you do is find yourself a decent group of friends, and turn off all public channels so you can pretend all those other people on your server are just NPCs. __________________ http://myanimelist.net/animelist/creb http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/creb It feels like years since they've been updated, btw. Also, cake.

2011-11-30, 00:14	Link #688
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	I think I only grouped twice the entire weekend. Once in the first Heroic I wondered into. A guy came in behind me after I wiped three times and we proceeded to alternate who died on a pull. We made it though. The second time was at one of those Bonus named elites that everyone was taking down. I was waiting my turn and eventually group with two other people who arrived...after seeing the guy die twice to other groups. I did like that some quests give you a tough elite to kill, put if you've managed to complete the quest, you can just walk away on respawn, since killing it isn't part of the quest. The other times were you had to kill the named elite were more difficult solo. But in the Class event regions that's what you got to do. Like the Sith I had to kill to finish a quest...took six tries I think to kill him, and only after having a real look at my companions skills was I able to, barely, kill him. I didn't test a lot of stuff. Never did any space battles. Never rally trained any skilled (took Synweaving for the XP quest only). I never raised my companions skills (He didn't ahve levels that I was aware of). I never got around to looking for what the badges could get you. that waws probably the one thing I should have checked..what gear or mods I could buy from the right dealer. I barely even looked at the ship parts seller just before I grabbed my ship, and that was to sell crap and repair really. Never got a speeder since I only made it to level 19. I don't think I ever saw anyone with one come to think of it. mainly because I hadn't made it off the third planet yet. __________________

2011-11-29, 19:03	Link #682
lightbringer M9000 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SBC Gurokken	The training blade does look silly but you gotta use something until you get your lightsaber. I just wish enemies used vibroblades and not training blades, they look just as silly as you do at the start. If you're worried about minor stuff like that, you'll likely be disappointed when you see all the pre-order people running around with their yellow-with-black-core lightsabers come release... might want to give it a couple of weeks for them to upgrade to other crystals

2011-11-30, 00:01	Link #687
kuroishinigami Ava courtesy of patchy Join Date: Jan 2009	Give me the preorder privilege then . Joking aside, probably gonna buy this within the first 6 month and treat playing it as a single player game with occasional not-so-serious group with the non-hardcore player(I met a few on the beta). So, anyone who want people to group with just to have fun, feel free to give me a call on weekends after I get the game( I'll probably won't play much on weekdays due to work lol). I'm tempted to buy it within a month, but I want to let the hardcore players leave the beginner area first. And if I'm lucky, there might already a price drop as a bonus

2011-11-30, 00:18	Link #690
HurricaneHige Uguu~ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada	Hmm, I actually managed to find good community in most MMO i played. In RO i had a tightly knitted guild. In L2 I was part of the dominant guild in my server, despite being assholes to other people we were close friends within. In Rohan I was in a very laid back and fun guild, even my enemies show respect after town wars. In Aion there were some bad apples, but enemies and friends were all relatively respectful. In TOR so far, nothing short of complete crap. __________________ Sig's coming soon ~_~ (since 07....) My rant blog (omg i'm blogging now, and not just anime)

2011-11-30, 00:46	Link #692
kuroishinigami Ava courtesy of patchy Join Date: Jan 2009	I also always manage to find some great friends in mmo I played. The key is stay away from the hardcore one who only cares about gaining levels and/or items I guess. One thing I don't like about mmo nowadays is the binding system of item. Exchanging gifts and giving items you don't need to someone is a good way to start makint casual online friend IMO, and it also reveals people's true nature much easier. I just remember one more thing I didn't like in beta. I wish they include subtitle option in the voiced conversation in the game. Being a non native english speaker, hving subtitle will really help m enjoy the story a lot more. Last edited by kuroishinigami; 2011-11-30 at 01:46.

2011-11-30, 04:57	Link #693
lightbringer M9000 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SBC Gurokken	It'll probably be a bit better once we only have paying members, but not much. I don't hold much hope there - a PUG is like a dice roll: 1 - silent people who probably don't speak English 2 - loot ninjas 3 - people who will break every CC you do 4 - people with no patience whatsoever 5 - general asshats 6 - actually decent group members who are polite and competent And the dice are loaded in favor of the first five It's like this in every MMO I've ever played. Unfortunately, none of my IRL friends want to play MMOs. On the other hand, I am glad I can solo most of the time since what little spare time I have after work is also needed for manga, anime, and other games I've grouped with many different players in the weekend beta and there were two or three people among them who were #6. The forums are full of crap over at SWTOR but I didn't feel that the actual players were any worse than any other MMO. Then again, my base standard is Eve Online so I have a thick skin. What eventually happens is you run a PUG with someone who is not in the first five categories, and both of you are impressed enough that you friend each other and play together whenever an opportunity presents itself and help each other with your quests. Do this a couple of times and you have all the social interaction you need from an MMO as a casual player. Once you hit 50 you'll do PVP or other end-game content together. And if you find seven people like that you even have enough for SWTOR raids.

2011-11-30, 08:02	Link #695
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 36	you forgot 7. people who complain about someone taking loot that isn't exactly for their classs when no one else needed it, and its BETA! __________________

2011-11-30, 08:59	Link #696
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	HurricaneHige, I too noticed how toxic the chat and community was on Kita Tran, but to be perfectly honest that probably describes most mainstream MMOs nowadays. WoW and ToR are cut from the same clothe so to speak. As strange as it sounds, even if you decide to play I would suggest waiting perhaps a month due to the fact that often the first month is a paid beta test. The only exception I heard of was Rift's launch.

2011-11-30, 09:23	Link #697
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 41	People stopped being nice when they no longed needed each other. Yeah, instances, raids and completely soloable questing helped murder community (not saying that you should always need a group to level just that you should have to interact. At least TOR has co-op quests and the like to help balance it out). That and when it became 'cool' to play an MMO, I guess. That always attracts the douches. At least back in the days of yore in EQ if someone was a douche, they were almost universally shunned and ignored, and were pretty much rendered unable to succeed and were left to a solitary life since no one would group with them. At least that's what I remember from Tarrew Marr, ninja from any of the top guilds and you were so boned you may as well quit the game. But in general, inter-guild relations were mostly friendly. Which I think had something do with with the non-instanced raids and having to share a 3-7 day lockout with other guilds because anything else would mean complete and total anarchy. Not that things didn't get heated from time to time, over crowded popular zones (Bastion of Thunder anyone?) had numerous contested spawns, which groups were fiercely protective of when you were on a grinding session. I remember having two guilds at a final boss in a raid instance (Emperor Ssraeshza), and we each took turns at trying to kill him with our entire raids just sitting, watching and not interfering with the other guilds attempt. Then I compare it to the complete cluster that were the green dragons from WoW, or that demon guy I can't remember the name of. Mmm, that anecdote kinda got away from me. Point is, MMO's need more (forced?) player interaction to help build community, that's how a community is made. (Lets not mention getting away from the tried and true, yet long in the tooth, hotkey style of play.) __________________

2011-11-30, 10:14	Link #698
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	I agree that part of it is due the prominence of solo progression, but at the same time I think the expectation that everyone should raid was far more prominent. In WoW, instances often became a race against time for collecting points, so that one could attend raids. If a member was not performing the job then it slowed down progression, which thus stalled point collection and thus impacted raid progression. That or, someone standing in the fire. Such an environment definitely creates impatience and stigma for players that don't keep up. That is not to say I hated WoW, I enjoyed my time, but I am way too busy to play at the moment. I do not think TOR will escape that problem though. With the endgame being raids or instanced PVP I just see it walking down WoW's same path.

2011-11-30, 10:35	Link #699
lightbringer M9000 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SBC Gurokken	I'll be honest here, I want to play TOR, and I am usually quite friendly in groups even when I am forced to tank or heal against my will (and against my spec), but if it had forced grouping like you describe I'd be the first to ragequit. Being often only able to login for an hour or two means I'd not be getting anything out of the game most of the time. Half the reason I wanna play TOR is because for me it's KOTOR 3, anyway If the price of TOR being applicable to a wider audience is the prevalence of asshats, so be it. I will take it into account. Not every player you come across will be like that, you can surely find someone to group with.

2011-11-30, 11:09	Link #700
kuroishinigami Ava courtesy of patchy Join Date: Jan 2009	^ Couldn't agree more. I will treat it as a single player game with a multi-player feature like final fantasy type 0. It will be nice if I can find people who will casually do quest together, but that won't be my primary goal in playing this.