2011-03-05, 18:46 | Link #701 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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2) Are you really applying real physics to this show? Seriously? 3) There are many meanings to the word "lost". He was explaining the concept to Madoka in laymen's terms. You usually wouldn't use the campfire analogy to explain entropy concerning the universe. And actually, yes, the universe is "losing" energy found in a usable state, that's where "heat death occurs". It is conceivable, given enough high-tech cultures that are using energy to the point in which there is an imbalance in the equilibrium required to maintain a certain state of energy for life to exist. Quote:
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2011-03-05, 19:22 | Link #702 | ||
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 31
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2) You may as well not apply anything to this show. Physics is how Urobuchi is able to let Kyubey talk about entropy, so I can also use it to evaluate Kyubey's claim. 3) Kyubey also said that energy was created out of emotion. It is not unreasonable to assume that when Kyubey said that energy is being lost, that it is destroyed as well. Quote:
I will not define evil because whatever definition I pose will be argued as not evil by you, therefore leading to a never-ending back and forth. It has happened before. I will not limit myself to a definition. Madoka thinks Kyubey is evil. She does not explain herself, she just feels Kyubey is evil. But I will, because you continue to call me a troll. Kyubey says he is making young girls suffer for the sake of the universe. Physics states that energy is never lost, so Kyubey is already lying if I take his words for face value. If Kyubey meant that heat death is happening, then physics says that is not going to happen for billions of years. Unless there is some agent sucking out all the useful energy from the universe at an alarming rate, there is no reason for Madoka to be concerned. Now Kyubey is suggesting that energy can be created out of emotion. But Kyubey would only need that if energy was being destroyed as well. In our universe, energy is neither created nor destroyed. There must be something strange about the Madokaverse - something that can destroy energy. Kyubey is the one begging for Madoka to create energy. I claim that Kyubey is the one destroying energy for his own purpose, and seeking created energy to fuel that purpose. Kyubey is responsible for both threatening the universe's survival and torturing Madoka, making him evil. There are enough hints to suggest that Kyubey is lying. We do not have to have a discussion. Just pretend I do not exist, or put me on one of the ignore list (if this forum has one). It is simply my obligation to respond to anyone who responds to me. |
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2011-03-05, 20:49 | Link #703 | ||||
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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The notion of heat death is when the universe reaches a maximum level of entropy and no more "work" can be done. QB has stated his reason here is to deal with the problem relating to entropy. You are selectively choosing what you want to hear-- You believe QB when he says that there is a problem associated with entropy, yet you don't believe the urgency of the issue. Our science is based on a lot of faulty assumptions. The current calculated estimate for when heat death will occur is based on a number of known and unknown variables such as dark matter or black holes. Quote:
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Also you have a number of logical inconsistencies in your argument. You state: Quote:
According to your logic, anyone who causes another individual grief is evil, even if it is for a greater good, unintentional, etc. |
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2011-03-05, 21:05 | Link #704 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Anyway Kyuubei being evil in his personality or not is moot. His actions have the consequence of leading innocent people down to ruin even if what he says he's doing is true. And if the pattern in this show continues then everyone reaps what they sows in the end. I suppose you could compare him to a scientist who butchers thousands in human experimentation to develop a cure for cancer in the end.
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2011-03-05, 21:28 | Link #705 | |
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2011-03-05, 21:53 | Link #706 | |
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 31
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Kyubey did not tell Sayaka about the specifics of the Soul Gem. Kyubey did not tell any of his Puella Magi that they were going to turn into witches. One of them did. There never is any direct evidence to accuse Kyubey of ulterior motives, but Kyubey has had them. He wants his Puella Magi to turn into witches. Homura says he has a true plan; Kyubey says his true plan is to save the universe. If that is so, why is Homura trying to stop him? Because she is emotionally attached to Madoka? I assume that Kyubey is not lying. He may be trying to save the universe. But, my guess is Kyubey is simultaneously also the threat to the universe. Kyubey is evil. In your terms, he is using up all of the universe's useful energy for his own purposes, and needs more. So he goes to Earth and farms magical girls for useful energy. In my terms, Kyubey is destroying that energy in the process of using it. The differences are not that important so much in suggesting that Kyubey is responsible. There is no direct evidence to suggest that my theory is true. But, you see, I don't care. It merely fits with the pattern of Kyubey giving an incomplete briefing of the situation, and later revealing that he has other secrets. It also fits with the idea that Kyubey is evil. Last edited by Deconstructor; 2011-03-05 at 22:17. |
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2011-03-06, 02:24 | Link #707 | |
Banned
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2011-03-06, 02:27 | Link #708 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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2011-03-06, 02:39 | Link #710 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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How exactly does Word of God automatically mean that everyone else is wrong?
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2011-03-06, 04:10 | Link #711 |
Your wife is hot...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At your house fixing A/C
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1st law energy cannot be created or destroy, it could only change form
2nd law S = Q/T [J/K], there is no 100% efficiency in any system So QB is not lying, he is just teaching Modoka some fundamentals of thermal dynamics some intro in thermal dynamic if anyone is interested I want my mahou shoujo to be created by CLAMP's mascot instead, something like Kero-chan and Mokona Last edited by kk2extreme; 2011-03-06 at 04:22. |
2011-03-06, 04:46 | Link #712 | |
Hiding Under Your Bed
Join Date: May 2008
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99% of the QB isn't evil arguments fails to understand this very simple concept. People saying QB is evil are saying so from their perspective. If it helps, I'll use an exaggerated example to make this crystal clear. Let's take a child rapist. The child rapist has a few screws loose and doesn't think anything he's doing to children is wrong. In fact, his screws are REALLY loose, and he thinks his abuse is actually helping children. From his perspective, he's a shining hero. Now, from my perspective, he's evil. Do you understand what perspective has to do with labeling something evil or not? |
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2011-03-06, 05:23 | Link #713 |
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Damn, do we really have to argue on Kyuube's explanation on entropy?
He was simplifying the explanation to a kid. Guess how highschool teachers teach the atomic structure? Using the Bohr model, because its simplification is "generally" correct. You're driving in a car at 10kph and a car is heading your way at 10kph. From your perspective, the other car's coming at you at 20kph. Oh despite it not really being 20kph, Kyuube's gonna omit time dilation to simplify things. That lying bastard! I have yet to see Kyuube say anything that is an outright lie, unless you really want to count simplification as a lie. Furthermore, where does Kyuube state energy is created out of emotion? The energy that Kyuube collects is difference between hope and grief. |
2011-03-06, 05:45 | Link #715 |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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When he told Kyoko he absolutely didn't know of what the outcome will be when she wanted to go save Sayaka, then later blatantly say at the end he knew all along it was useless and that it was planned to force Madoka to take up a contract by making Homura fight Walpurgis Nacht alone
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2011-03-06, 06:23 | Link #716 | |
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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In some ways I still don't think Kyuube was lying when he said he didn't know the outcome. He did say Puella Magi's are against reason, so anything's possible (though not necessarily probable). The way he told Homura that converting back was "foolish" and "obviously impossible" (assuming the subs are accurate), to me, seemed more like he's just saying "oh, it hasn't happened before, so I've yet to be proven wrong about this", but yes I can see this as a lie if he really meant it to be impossible. There's definitely a question on whether Kyuube is foreseeing events or influencing things to reach certain events... |
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2011-03-06, 06:37 | Link #717 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2011-03-06, 06:44 | Link #718 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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As I said before, for someone to be evil in my book, there has to be mens rea, or intent. I think you will agree with me. The issue I have with deconstructor, is that there is NO evidence (and rather, evidence for quite the contrary) of QB having evil intent. However, he just wants to insist that QB is evil because of the acts he is doing. Claiming that QB has evil intent because his actions are evil is a logical fallacy and circular in argument. What I have issue with is not if someone's definition of evil doesn't correspond to my own, but rather the logic one uses to arrive to that conclusion is fundamentally flawed. I asked him to consult the Churchill Dilemma. It is actually quite a similar situation. I didn't view it as gloating, but rather arrogance and condescension. |
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