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Flying Dagger · 2011-10-30, 16:17

In BC a lot of the BoEs from world bosses are sub-optimal.

Also, whoever initial the fight first in pvp svr have the disadvantage: as getting killed by boss mechanics locks you out for the next 15 minutes so you cannot really retaliate. I think in wotlk the idea of world bosses got merged into vault.

Ak3mi · 2011-10-30, 16:18

Ah right I thought that was like a lockout period.

The pet battling, doesn't interest me

I think its because I don't have a liking for vanity pets.

Xacual · 2011-10-30, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

In BC a lot of the BoEs from world bosses are sub-optimal.

Also, whoever initial the fight first in pvp svr have the disadvantage: as getting killed by boss mechanics locks you out for the next 15 minutes so you cannot really retaliate. I think in wotlk the idea of world bosses got merged into vault.

Let's be honest here, in Vanilla and BC a lot of loot was sub optimal. It wasn't really until end of BC / Wrath that stuff was really starting to actually work for classes. And even then a lot of stuff was still bad. Hell my elemental shaman had 2 or 3 pieces of cloth / leather and I would have likely had more if not for t6 having good set bonuses.

GDB · 2011-10-30, 17:41

I wouldn't say it took that long to get things to be relatively optimal. Karazhan was mostly very well itemized, as was ZA. In fact, I think I only used one mail item (helm), and I can't recall if that's because the damned plate one would never drop or if it were just outright better (I'm a Holy Paladin).

Xacual · 2011-10-30, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

I wouldn't say it took that long to get things to be relatively optimal. Karazhan was mostly very well itemized, as was ZA. In fact, I think I only used one mail item (helm), and I can't recall if that's because the damned plate one would never drop or if it were just outright better (I'm a Holy Paladin).

Well yeah Karazhan was so well itemized that it was better than the stuff from Gruul's Lair, Magtheridon, SerpentShrine Cavern and Tempest Keep so that they had to buff a lot of those items and adjust down the Karazhan stuff

Of course that was relatively early in the BC cycle so a lot of people didn't even know that happened.

Ithekro · 2011-10-30, 19:51

However they have something now that they did not have in vanilla and used very rarely in TBC. Phasing. They could phase world bosses so that the raid or group thay takes it phases out. Another group could try to take the beast ight at the same time and they are both essentially in different phases (or even semi instanced). They could also0 be taking about making the world bosses be PVE senarios in that a group can only see (or maybe just attack) the boss if they are on the quest involving it. Then they could put a lockout on it afterwords so you could only take it down once a week.

Rewards might not be an item but perhaps a statless item that looks awesome for transmogrifcation.

Same for capital raiding. They could have the regular pvp style attacks like people have been doing for years, and they could make a phased weekly style raid (not a leader kill mission, but something to hamper the war effort) that doesn't quite mess up the lifes of those that don't want to be effected (pve servers). However they could also have a capital defense pve version to stop waves of enemy raiders (not the actual players).

Xacual · 2011-10-30, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

However they have something now that they did not have in vanilla and used very rarely in TBC. Phasing. They could phase world bosses so that the raid or group thay takes it phases out. Another group could try to take the beast ight at the same time and they are both essentially in different phases (or even semi instanced). They could also0 be taking about making the world bosses be PVE senarios in that a group can only see (or maybe just attack) the boss if they are on the quest involving it. Then they could put a lockout on it afterwords so you could only take it down once a week.

Rewards might not be an item but perhaps a statless item that looks awesome for transmogrifcation.

Same for capital raiding. They could have the regular pvp style attacks like people have been doing for years, and they could make a phased weekly style raid (not a leader kill mission, but something to hamper the war effort) that doesn't quite mess up the lifes of those that don't want to be effected (pve servers). However they could also have a capital defense pve version to stop waves of enemy raiders (not the actual players).

I'd really rather they not do that for world bosses especially when they said they're going to do things to encourage more world pvp.

GDB · 2011-10-30, 21:17

If they want to encourage World PvP, don't allow flying mounts on Pandaria. Ever. Use some lore bullshit about the mists or something.

Flying Dagger · 2011-10-30, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xacual

I'd really rather they not do that for world bosses especially when they said they're going to do things to encourage more world pvp.

Its not rly "world pvp", more like which ever guild has more people online at an awkward hour wins.
Even if you have all the latest tier of equipment and the most skillful players, you can still wipe because the grievers chained CC and snipe your healers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

If they want to encourage World PvP, don't allow flying mounts on Pandaria. Ever. Use some lore bullshit about the mists or something.

misted vision flying skill, 10k gold, thx?
I actually like the ability to fly while leveling a lot. I don't really care for travelling on the ground. I do not want to rid on a slow ass mount on a continent that is supposed to be big. Esp on a new zone where its just easier to fly from point A to point B and ignore all the potential mazes (via elevation) that I have to go through.

oh well - I am still not motivated enough to pay another $40 for an xpac and another $15 for a month of subs: it will rly depend on how the other games are doing and how many of my friends return to WoW.

Xacual · 2011-10-30, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Its not rly "world pvp", more like which ever guild has more people online at an awkward hour wins.
Even if you have all the latest tier of equipment and the most skillful players, you can still wipe because the grievers chained CC and snipe your healers.

That's why you have to have prepared for the eventuality that you will be attacked. Honestly it's not like it's anything new to be ready on pvp servers for a possible other faction attack. Especially during fighting a world boss which like I said before, you'd normally have half your group at least ready to protect the group, maybe everyone if necessary but the tanks and their healers. If you don't want to deal with that, you play on a pve server.

Ithekro · 2011-10-30, 22:29

What if you already play on a pve server?
I do.
My suggestion works on both types to make it seem like there is a war on without forcing pvp on people that don't want to pvp. Basically it could phase you if you are flagged so you can fight all over the place in these battle zones, but if you are not flagged (especially in the cities) you won't be effected all that much by the pvpers. This would also work in the old raid areas like Crossroads or Tarren Mill (Southshore is gone though) that people use to do because they were bored, but not get in the way of the levelers (nor get into the way of the quest storylines, since those seem to be important and heavily phased since CATA).

Xacual · 2011-10-30, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

What if you already play on a pve server?
I do.
My suggestion works on both types to make it seem like there is a war on without forcing pvp on people that don't want to pvp. Basically it could phase you if you are flagged so you can fight all over the place in these battle zones, but if you are not flagged (especially in the cities) you won't be effected all that much by the pvpers. This would also work in the old raid areas like Crossroads or Tarren Mill (Southshore is gone though) that people use to do because they were bored, but not get in the way of the levelers (nor get into the way of the quest storylines, since those seem to be important and heavily phased since CATA).

If you play on a pve server what are you worried about? The opposite faction can't attack you and mess with the attempt anyway. Unless they flag and your raid group is too dumb not to attack them and get flagged too. The only way they could mess with the attempt is if the bosses have some kind of heal mechanic like Kazzak or Emeriss did.

Flying Dagger · 2011-10-31, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xacual

That's why you have to have prepared for the eventuality that you will be attacked. Honestly it's not like it's anything new to be ready on pvp servers for a possible other faction attack. Especially during fighting a world boss which like I said before, you'd normally have half your group at least ready to protect the group, maybe everyone if necessary but the tanks and their healers. If you don't want to deal with that, you play on a pve server.

pvp and pve do not really mix well together even on a pvp server. I am fine with people ganking/raiding towns.

For world bosses usually we just dps down any opposing faction members who try to interfere with us. However we do not bother with world bosses unless they spawn around raid time: and we are for the most part overgeared for kazzak/doomwalker anyway. I have been spoiled enough that in BC we are always on the "griefing end" where we steal bosses from other people... (the easiness in which we can wipe another raid is 1/2 the reason why I think world bosses is a terrible idea - the other 1/2 being the RNG nature)

My svr was not too populated so world dragons @ 2am in the morning isn't that big of a deal.

Ithekro · 2011-10-31, 00:06

I am thinking about cities and towns more than world bosses now. Since they said they wanted to give incentive to engage in pvp like actvities, thus it will happen on pve servers as welll.

For world bosses phasing and quest styles makes more sense in that it prevents sniping/griefing

Also phasing allows for your group to appear to be doing something that effects the war, rather than the old style of just doing it out of boredom or griefing. While it won't prevent ganking, it would give someone on either a pvp or a pve server the feeling that they are doing something so they aren't bored. Also gets them out of cities and doing things.

Sort of like version.of either the Rift events in Rift or the moving event in the upcoming Guild Wsrs 2. Thus allowing WoW to keep up with the Jones, so to speak.

Flying Dagger · 2011-10-31, 00:20

WoW also need things which people can do to "get ahead".
I want to be able to do something outside of raids (that is not RD - I guess gather professions count too - esp archaeology - but my guild paid all consumables and repairs) that allow me to become stronger.

No I don't want to play pokemon with my pets.

I think in cata archaeology is one of the biggest failure (yes I realize you get epics from digging). Flying around the world digging things up over and over is NOT fun. That is the epitome of why WoW suck: doing something over and over and over (and over and over...) just to get better stuff.

It wouldn't be as bad if archaeology is not that "boring". What if we get fragments for killing dungeon bosses as well so we don't have to hang ourselves in the digging process? What if arch is not a boring fly around the world and hit the button many times thing, but a fun minigame like hmmm.... starjeweled in sc2?

Xacual · 2011-10-31, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

WoW also need things which people can do to "get ahead".
I want to be able to do something outside of raids (that is not RD - I guess gather professions count too - esp archaeology - but my guild paid all consumables and repairs) that allow me to become stronger.

Yeah that was back in Vanilla and BC, and then Blizz realized guilds and their players were spending just as much if not more time farming all the mats for all the different consumables / buffs possible than they were raiding. So they nerfed it down to either a flask or 2 elixir buffs.

Ithekro · 2011-10-31, 00:29

My thought is that it is the war aspect of the game that would push the idea of having something fun to do that might not get old. Especially if there were a lot of different ones in different zones, so if you get bored with one you can go to another zone for a different experiance.

The thing is that whatever they do for the war needs to work effectively on PVE servers as well as PVP servers. And not just in Pandaria, and all of Azeroth.

Flying Dagger · 2011-10-31, 03:32

I suppose world pvp is also a sensitive issue to blizzard since they do not like to admit imbalances between factions on different servers. if you are horde on an alliance dominated svr you are going to suffer, or vice versa.

Keroko · 2011-10-31, 10:35

*returns from a two week vacation and checks the web* Pandarens and a monk class? Goddammit Blizzard, why do you tossing expansions with stuff I like just at that time I think I finally quit...

Then again, with what's on the horizon, I guess I'll wait and see if this expansion can pull me away from SWTOR and GW2 first.

Skane · 2011-10-31, 10:48

Actually, I'm more interested in the Pet Battles.

Undercity Cockroach! I choose you!

2011-10-30, 16:18	Link #7562
Ak3mi Tumble Rumble Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Imagination Land Age: 39	Ah right I thought that was like a lockout period. The pet battling, doesn't interest me I think its because I don't have a liking for vanity pets. __________________

2011-10-30, 19:51	Link #7566
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	However they have something now that they did not have in vanilla and used very rarely in TBC. Phasing. They could phase world bosses so that the raid or group thay takes it phases out. Another group could try to take the beast ight at the same time and they are both essentially in different phases (or even semi instanced). They could also0 be taking about making the world bosses be PVE senarios in that a group can only see (or maybe just attack) the boss if they are on the quest involving it. Then they could put a lockout on it afterwords so you could only take it down once a week. Rewards might not be an item but perhaps a statless item that looks awesome for transmogrifcation. Same for capital raiding. They could have the regular pvp style attacks like people have been doing for years, and they could make a phased weekly style raid (not a leader kill mission, but something to hamper the war effort) that doesn't quite mess up the lifes of those that don't want to be effected (pve servers). However they could also have a capital defense pve version to stop waves of enemy raiders (not the actual players). __________________

2011-10-30, 22:29	Link #7571
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	What if you already play on a pve server? I do. My suggestion works on both types to make it seem like there is a war on without forcing pvp on people that don't want to pvp. Basically it could phase you if you are flagged so you can fight all over the place in these battle zones, but if you are not flagged (especially in the cities) you won't be effected all that much by the pvpers. This would also work in the old raid areas like Crossroads or Tarren Mill (Southshore is gone though) that people use to do because they were bored, but not get in the way of the levelers (nor get into the way of the quest storylines, since those seem to be important and heavily phased since CATA). __________________

2011-10-31, 00:06	Link #7574
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I am thinking about cities and towns more than world bosses now. Since they said they wanted to give incentive to engage in pvp like actvities, thus it will happen on pve servers as welll. For world bosses phasing and quest styles makes more sense in that it prevents sniping/griefing Also phasing allows for your group to appear to be doing something that effects the war, rather than the old style of just doing it out of boredom or griefing. While it won't prevent ganking, it would give someone on either a pvp or a pve server the feeling that they are doing something so they aren't bored. Also gets them out of cities and doing things. Sort of like version.of either the Rift events in Rift or the moving event in the upcoming Guild Wsrs 2. Thus allowing WoW to keep up with the Jones, so to speak. __________________

2011-10-31, 00:29	Link #7577
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	My thought is that it is the war aspect of the game that would push the idea of having something fun to do that might not get old. Especially if there were a lot of different ones in different zones, so if you get bored with one you can go to another zone for a different experiance. The thing is that whatever they do for the war needs to work effectively on PVE servers as well as PVP servers. And not just in Pandaria, and all of Azeroth. __________________

2011-10-30, 16:17	Link #7561
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	In BC a lot of the BoEs from world bosses are sub-optimal. Also, whoever initial the fight first in pvp svr have the disadvantage: as getting killed by boss mechanics locks you out for the next 15 minutes so you cannot really retaliate. I think in wotlk the idea of world bosses got merged into vault.

2011-10-30, 17:41	Link #7564
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	I wouldn't say it took that long to get things to be relatively optimal. Karazhan was mostly very well itemized, as was ZA. In fact, I think I only used one mail item (helm), and I can't recall if that's because the damned plate one would never drop or if it were just outright better (I'm a Holy Paladin).

2011-10-30, 21:17	Link #7568
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	If they want to encourage World PvP, don't allow flying mounts on Pandaria. Ever. Use some lore bullshit about the mists or something.

2011-10-31, 00:20	Link #7575
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	WoW also need things which people can do to "get ahead". I want to be able to do something outside of raids (that is not RD - I guess gather professions count too - esp archaeology - but my guild paid all consumables and repairs) that allow me to become stronger. No I don't want to play pokemon with my pets. I think in cata archaeology is one of the biggest failure (yes I realize you get epics from digging). Flying around the world digging things up over and over is NOT fun. That is the epitome of why WoW suck: doing something over and over and over (and over and over...) just to get better stuff. It wouldn't be as bad if archaeology is not that "boring". What if we get fragments for killing dungeon bosses as well so we don't have to hang ourselves in the digging process? What if arch is not a boring fly around the world and hit the button many times thing, but a fun minigame like hmmm.... starjeweled in sc2?

2011-10-31, 03:32	Link #7578
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	I suppose world pvp is also a sensitive issue to blizzard since they do not like to admit imbalances between factions on different servers. if you are horde on an alliance dominated svr you are going to suffer, or vice versa.

2011-10-31, 10:35	Link #7579
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	returns from a two week vacation and checks the web Pandarens and a monk class? Goddammit Blizzard, why do you tossing expansions with stuff I like just at that time I think I finally quit... Then again, with what's on the horizon, I guess I'll wait and see if this expansion can pull me away from SWTOR and GW2 first.

2011-10-31, 10:48	Link #7580
Skane Anime Snark Join Date: May 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 41	Actually, I'm more interested in the Pet Battles. Undercity Cockroach! I choose you! __________________ Hearthstone Battletag: Skane#1425 [Can't GIF This], [Jail's House of Rock], [Kanon In The Snow], [She Ain't Dead Yet... She's In Quantum], [She Stabs] Founder of "The Cult of Psycho-Moe", Member of "ARIA the Social Group" & the "Belkan Saint Church".