(L) Seirei no Moribito (Guardian of the Sacred Spirit)

[Slice of Life]

What he said. They can always let that-one-big-swedish-site do the tracking or whatever.

[TinyRedLeaf]

The subs for Episode 15 are out.

Spoiler for the time being:

A plot development episode, where nothing much exciting happened. Shuga continued his investigation, and discovered the vital clue that could confirm whether Chagum was still alive. Meanwhile, Torogai revealed that the La Lunga will eventually come to eat the egg, and thus kill Chagum in the process.

Sagum's health takes an unexpected turn for the worse. By the end of the episode, we're left wondering what happened to him, but the clues are pretty ominous -- it seems that he has passed away, and was in fact well aware that he was dying.

[On a more somber note, I'm reminded of how some people seem aware of when the end is near, particularly old or sickly people. It seems that when you live very close to death, you become keenly aware its imminent approach. It's almost as though they developed a kind of sixth sense. ("The busier one is, the more acute one's senses become," said Sagum.)]

After watching this episode, I think I can better understand why I.G. spent so much time developing Chagum's character for the past several episodes. I say this in reflection to some of Sagum's last words: "There is one crucial quality I lack: the Grace of Heaven to captivate other people's hearts. Even though I can sway others with my rank, it is difficult to sway their hearts. Chagum had that quality -- the power to naturally charm others."

Without the benefit of the previous episodes, we would not have been able to appreciate the truth of Sagum's insight. In a strange way, this makes Sagum a sympathetic character. In his beloved brother's memory, he tried his best to live up to a role he knew he couldn't handle, and exhausted himself in the process. That makes him very noble, in my opinion.

By the way, is that crane-like bird a nahji? That final farewell was fairly touching, because it seemed like it "understood" what was going to happen to Sagum. At least, that's how I'd like to interpret that scene.

I also like how a subtle cultural point was developed in this episode. In a Confucian society, scholars are held in very high esteem. People like Sagum and Chagum would be held in extremely high regard for their intelligence and superb education. Emperors and kings are expected to be enlightened sages who would lead their people through virtuous wisdom, rather than brute force.

So it's fairly heartwarming when Balsa says, "Maybe I'll buy a writing desk for Chagum." Here in East Asia, it's not unusual for parents to put everything on the line to ensure that their children get a good education. It's an aspect of my cultural heritage I'm very proud of, and it's nice to see that reflected in this episode as well.

[SeijiSensei]

Sagum said many insightful things during this episode. Here's one of my favorites:

"Gifts are defined by the tact of the recipient. What's important is the mindset of both the giver and receiver." -- Sagum

Spoiler for Chagum in ep. 15:

Chagum wants to grow up to be someone who can continue to learn and help people? Is that going to be as an Emperor who is also the "enlightened sage" that TRL describes, or does Chagum really think he'll never return to his imperial life? He certainly seems to be enjoying his freedom from imperial demands, and his new-found sense of control over his future. Earlier I thought that Chagum's exposure to ordinary life would encourage his development as a benevolent ruler when his turn came. Now it sounds like he'd prefer to live a more ordinary life. Somehow I doubt things are going to work out that way.

We've also eliminated another possible plot development, internecine conflict over the succession between Chagum and Sagum. Yet if Shuga thinks everyone at court will welcome the news of Chagum's survival, he is much more naive than I imagined.

[lommm]

Spoiler for 15:

so i think Chagum will be the type of emperor who spends more of his time out among the people than couped up in the emperial palace.

and yeah, Shuga is being pretty naive to assume that everyone at court would want Chagum back. i have a feeling that the emperor might end up saying something like, "We are not amused."

[TinyRedLeaf]

A point of translation I've been wanting to ask: the Emperor uses the second-person pronoun "we" whenever he refers to himself. What is the Japanese original, and why was it translated to "we"?

Is it because he speaks on the behalf of his predecessors? Or is it because, as Head of State, he speaks on the behalf of all Yogo people?

[EasyPrey]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

A point of translation I've been wanting to ask: the Emperor uses the second-person pronoun "we" whenever he refers to himself. What is the Japanese original, and why was it translated to "we"?

Is it because he speaks on the behalf of his predecessors? Or is it because, as Head of State, he speaks on the behalf of all Yogo people?

The "we" the emperor speaks of is the royal 'we'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_majestatis

You will find that similar language is in use today where the person is (or places themselves) of importance. For example, if you go to a court hearing. The judge will never say "I find the defendant guilty". Instead the judge will say "The Court finds the defendant guilty". A judge will always refer to himself in the third person ("The Court").

Anime Kraze is just doing an awesome job of translation. Their translation includes proper nuances of the language. Kudos to Anime Kraze!

-EasyPrey

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by EasyPrey

The "we" the emperor speaks of is the royal 'we'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_majestatis

You will find that similar language is in use today where the person is (or places themselves) of importance. For example, if you go to a court hearing. The judge will never say "I find the defendant guilty". Instead the judge will say "The Court finds the defendant guilty". A judge will always refer to himself in the third person ("The Court").

Anime Kraze is just doing an awesome job of translation. Their translation includes proper nuances of the language. Kudos to Anime Kraze!

-EasyPrey

And its something you wont find in domestics nuances of language or setting gets "replaced" with localization >>

It seems while Fan subs get better most domestics get worse, at least dubbing on a whole...or I suck at finding worth while dubs .

[KiNA]

Oh god.. I never thought a calm death scene could be so .. enchanting.

And damn that bird scene are touching >.<

T^T*manly tears*

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Kira_Naruto

Oh god.. I never thought a calm death scene could be so .. enchanting.

And damn that bird scene are touching >.<

T^T*manly tears*

this is the most enchanting series I have seen in years its like Hayao Miyazaki films rolled into a series,well maybe not that grand but damn close.

[TinyRedLeaf]

The "we" the emperor speaks of is the royal 'we'.

First of all, I got something wrong. "We" isn't a second-person pronoun. It's the plural form of the first-person pronoun "I".

Secondly, I guessed that it would be something like the royal "we" (although I didn't realise it applies that way to European monarchies; that's something new I learnt). I suppose the closest equivalent in a Chinese dub would be the "朕" (zhen in pinyin). I was curious though about the Japanese original -- how does the Emperor refer to himself in Japanese? I can't quite catch it.

[EasyPrey]

My understand is that Anime Kraze is translating (rather than inserting) the "royal we". I don't know what that term is called in Japanese, but they have a similar concept.

I recommend that you watch Saiunkoku Monogatari. It contains several dialog, where the monarch (disguised as a commoner), several times start to speak "we believe ...", only to catch himself and rephrase as "I believe ...".

Perhaps a native Japanese speaker could explain the Japanese nuances. That is a little beyond me.

-EasyPrey

[Aniki Meiski]

余（よ）：君主が使う。（漢籍の「寡人」のようなもの）死語。
朕（ちん）：中国に由来。皇帝のみ使う。

The male members of the royal or imperial family use "Yo" as first person singular pronoun. "Yo" is derived from classical chnese.

[lommm]

Aniki Meiski to the rescue!!

i happen to love that he speaks with the royal we! hence my joke, "We are not amused," which, by the way, comes from Monty Python, for those who don't know.

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by lommm

Aniki Meiski to the rescue!!

i happen to love that he speaks with the royal we! hence my joke, "We are not amused," which, by the way, comes from Monty Python, for those who don't know.

Actually, it comes from Queen Victoria, who, in this case, was in fact referring not just to herself, but to her whole party, so that wasn't a royal "we".

A funny coincidence.

[lommm]

and yet as a pop culture reference it comes from monty python. even if they were making reference to queen victoria, i was making reference to monty pythong, who are in fact responsible for popularizing that phrase in a silly high pitched voice as they said it (terry jones i think).




edit: pythong. i typed pythong. i wonder what a monty pythong would look like...

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by lommm

and yet as a pop culture reference it comes from monty python.

A statement so vague it can hardly be proven or disproven. But are you sure you don't underestimate the level of education on this planet and overestimate the reach of Monty Python?

[TinyRedLeaf]

"We are the knights who say NI!!"









<--- take a look at my location by the way....

[Slice of Life]

Yes, and? *confused*

To try and bring this thread on track again: Two remarks about recent episodes.

I found Torogai's constant repetition of the Kappa-like creature's talk in ep. 14 a bit unelegant. It would have been better if they had just subtitled it to gain the freedom to reduce Torogai's part to more naturally sounding comments instead of the constant "So, you say ...".

I probably didn't pay enough attention but I was surprised by Sagum's death. Was it really forshadowed? Maybe they should have let him look weaker from the start.

All in all, SnM is not only "according to my highly subjective, fuzzy, and always fluctuating ranking" the best show of 2007 (with LovCom being a close second). Trying to be as objective as I can, I'd say it hovers well above everything else that airs at the moment and I really wonder why it is seen to be not all that popular in Japan according to wao.

[kujoe]

Spoiler for episode 15:

I wouldn't say that Sagum's death was foreshadowed, but from the very moment he was introduced way back, he was already portrayed as the "weak and frail prince" just by looks alone.

Other things fall into place as well, such as Sagum receiving the sword, and that last conversation he has with Shuga that further keep the thought of "him dying one day" lingering at the background somewhat. And while I find his death scene in episode 15 to be quite the moving one, I also don't find it surprising at all.

But those scenes only happen in this episode, and indeed perhaps it would've been better if he was portrayed more sickly looking to emphasize his fate. Personally however, it's enough.

On another note, is the bird the same one from Sagum's flashback? The one that got injured when he and Chagum were playing?

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Trying to be as objective as I can, I'd say it hovers well above everything else that airs at the moment and I really wonder why it is seen to be not all that popular in Japan according to wao.

I don't know... Well, compare it with what's popular now—let's say, Lucky Star or something—and maybe it's just a matter of trends and what gets the mainstream otaku population take notice.

[KiNA]

Its just didn't have enough moe char in it ._.

just like the current banner contest.. every nook and corners are filled with moe banners ._.