(L) Ichigo 100%

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by MINAMI KOTARO

but that doesn't mean the whole story is finished too...

The story is over since there is no further material.
The day that Kawashita make a sequel, your point will be granted.

[MINAMI KOTARO]

yes the story is over...
but its over with an unconcluded story for aya and satsuki.
i didin't say that aya and satsuki must ended going out with junpei.
the match for junpei and tsukasa is ok for me...
i just want aya and satsuki got a clear finish.
maybe by something similiar to misuzu&uchiba's additional chapter.
to conclude their story.
and indeed, satsuki got a special chapter too in the last volume.
but why the hell that was only for fan service purpose?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by MINAMI KOTARO

but its over with an unconcluded story for aya and satsuki.

Satsuki and Aya's history is over. Satsuki had her ending doing her stuff at Kyoto (lame, but and ending) an Aya is a well-renowned writer (yeah, kinda lame too from fan's POV).

As you can read, both stories are concluded inside the title that Ichigo 100% is. Again, if Kawashita write a sequel... ok... the plot will restarted and will last until that work ends.

[kayote]

i started reading it and i am at v12 now, but i'm starting to feel sorry for Satsuki, she will never get him. i think it was in the earlier chapters but the time when she tried to give him a i think it was a B-day present, he would not accepet it. that was quite sad.

also she did not get the message that day, cause she is still trying. even though the two have her beat hands down.

i made sure not to read any spoilers but i think that, in the end it feels like he wil go with tsukasa. he is most attracted to her. with Aya it's more like he like the thought of them together. but when he is with tsukasa he is really with her.

[MINAMI KOTARO]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Satsuki and Aya's history is over. Satsuki had her ending doing her stuff at Kyoto (lame, but and ending) an Aya is a well-renowned writer (yeah, kinda lame too from fan's POV).

yes, aya and satsuki deserved more than that.
the mangaka made a special ending for misuzu, but didn't make one for aya and satsuki. thus really disappoint me a lot.
it seems aya and satsuki's story were left without any clear conclusion.
u said it was lame, right? thats why i'm very disappointed with their finish

Originally Posted by Fran~

As you can read, both stories are concluded inside the title that Ichigo 100% is. Again, if Kawashita write a sequel... ok... the plot will restarted and will last until that work ends.

concluded but without any clear conclusion.

[taelrak]

Originally Posted by MINAMI KOTARO

no, i still don't see aya's will was weak.
u should put ur opinion in the box with a label : "subjective opinions" on it.


perhaps, u should put "I" on the subject...not "We"...and that means, its ur personal statement, not mine or the other's.

every girl has their own way to show her feeling to someone.
tsukasa showed it explicitly. and aya showed it implicitly.
and even though aya didn't say it in words, even a stupid fool would knows that she likes junpei. and some characters on the manga knew that too. (misuzu, sotomura, amachi, satsuki and even junpei himself)
it was junpei who didn't try his best in order to win her.
junpei is a man, so he is the one who should act first. but when he saw aya with her brother who junpei thought was her boyfriend, he suddenly gave up. made him looks like a coward.
a man who only waiting to be picked by a girl is not a man. and it happened to junpei.
what made aya and junpei relationship didn't make out, wasn't because of aya, but it was because junpei already gave up at the moment he thought aya already got a boyfriend.

i just don't like ppl who said something like "this girl is better than that girl, or these girls are no better than those girls..." like they know everything. i mean, what are they ? a psychiatrist ???
if they said that it was a personal view, then its okay...

what makes me disappointed is, the manga seems unfinished.
i mean the mangaka only finished the story for tsukasa and misuzu.
while, aya and satsuki's story were left unfinished.

Isn't it obvious which are opinions and which are observations? The fact that I think one girl is "better" than another because of a trait is an opinion. Whether or not a character possesses a certain trait is an observation of fact.

It's like me saying, "Nishino has short hair." That's an observation. Sure, there are line-drawing problems in that statement and some people will ask "how short is short" or "short compared to what" or even disagree with that statement entirely. However, it doesn't change the fact that by most reasonable standards, it's simply a valid observation of empirical facts.

The same applies when I say "Aya is weak-willed." I'm not making a judgment call or opinion in that statement about whether that's good or bad. Yes, you might point out a line-drawing problem between "shyness" and "weak-willed" if you really stretch, but it's fairly reasonable to say that Aya does suffer from lack of willpower. Perhaps I should say she's "motivationally challenged" instead?

One of the central themes of the manga was in how people find the will and resolution to move forward--particularly Aya. It was to show her growth from a weak-willed, shy girl without confidence into an independent woman capable of walking on her own feet. Are you simply denying the manga's theme entirely or rather the manga entirely?

Shyness is a reluctance to express yourself. Weak-willed means she lets people walk over her. Aya is both. Besides, even if shy was all she was, then she has no right to complain when she doesn't get the guy - since she was too shy to go for him right?

I know there's a lot of anger over the misunderstanding about her brother, but is their relationship really so fragile that they couldn't fix the misunderstanding? And if it was merely the misunderstanding, wouldn't it be horribly unfair to Nishino, Satsuki, Junpei and everyone involved for him to have made his decision that way? The fact is, even after finding out about the misunderstanding, he still made his decision all over again during Aya's confession.

I don't disagree that Junpei is just as weak-willed as Aya. It takes 2 people to work out a relationship after all. On the other hand, doesn't that also show the rather tenuous relationship between them? Junpei did go out of his way to do things for the other girls - for example, Nishino's birthday, the trip together, the shrine, that cram school girl's phobia, etc.

Anyway, my last post on this subject. This is pointless if you're such a fan of Aya that you deny one of the overarching themes of the story itself.

[MINAMI KOTARO]

i didn't say she has the right to complain about when she doesn't get the guy.
i didn't say it was horribly unfair to Nishino, Satsuki, Junpei and everyone involved for him to have made his decision that way?
what i did was just to oppose about that weak-willed thing.
so please don't mix it with the ending issue etc.
really, this made the argument became more complex.
if u said that junpei picked tsukasa because junpei feels that tsukasa has the strongest bond with him, i'm totally agree with that.
besides, the ending doesn't have anything connected to weak-willed thing.
its just junpei like tsukasa the most, then she picked her.
and if u said she USED to be weak-willed, ok...i'm agree with it...
but it was when she was in her middle school.
and it doesn't have any connection to the ending, since junpei already gave up the moment he thought aya already had a boyfriend.

really, i thought i said in previous post that we should get another topic. because i already knew that its pointless to continue this.

anyway, my post above is a reply for ur post before u edited....this is it

Originally Posted by taelrak

Isn't it obvious which are opinions and which are observations? The fact that I think one girl is "better" than another because of a trait is an opinion. Whether or not a character possesses a certain trait is an observation of fact.

It's like me saying, "Nishino has short hair." That's an observation. Sure, there are line-drawing problems in that statement and some people will ask "how short is short" or "short compared to what" or even disagree with that statement entirely. However, it doesn't change the fact that by most reasonable standards, it's simply a valid observation of empirical facts.

The same applies when I say "Aya is weak-willed." I'm not making a judgment call or opinion in that statement about whether that's good or bad. Yes, you might point out a line-drawing problem between "shyness" and "weak-willed" if you really stretch, but it's fairly reasonable to say that Aya does suffer from lack of willpower. Perhaps I should say she's "motivationally challenged" instead?


Shyness is a reluctance to express yourself. Weak-willed means she lets people walk over her. Aya is both.

Besides, even if shy was all she was, then she has no right to complain when she doesn't get the guy - since she was too shy to go for him right?

I know there's a lot of anger over the misunderstanding about her brother, but is their relationship really so fragile that they couldn't fix the misunderstanding? And if it was merely the misunderstanding, wouldn't it be horribly unfair to Nishino, Satsuki, Junpei and everyone involved for him to have made his decision that way? The fact is, even after finding out about the misunderstanding, he still made his decision all over again during Aya's confession.

I don't disagree that Junpei is just as weak-willed as Aya. It takes 2 people to work out a relationship after all. On the other hand, doesn't that also show the rather tenuous relationship between them? Junpei did go out of his way to do things for the other girls - for example, Nishino's birthday, the trip together, the shrine, that cram school girl's phobia, etc.

I skimmed through the manga again, and although Aya is probably the sweetest of all the girls, I still can't find any real substantive moments where her and Junpei's relationship developed compared to Nishino. They just weren't there. Fate was really all she had going for her.

Anyway, my last post on this subject. I'm all for rooting for certain characters, but if you refuse to admit even simple observations that are not opinions but settled issues of fact, then there's no real point in continuing this discussion. I mean, I'm not sure why you'd ever get the idea Aya wasn't weak-willed--it was one of the major themes of the manga in how Aya got confidence in herself to become stronger-willed...are you just denying the mangaka's theme entirely?

I can't remember which of the ending chapters it was in - but she actually comes out and says that she lacked confidence and the resolution to move forward, was relying on him, and now she can walk forward on her own feet etc.

ps:
i don't get it why some ppl really wants me to have a same thought as them that badly.
even decreasing my rep point just because i have a different thought. funny

[AyaToujo]

bah aya is the perfect girl, end of the story.

[BetoJR]

Well, some people do say perfection is boring, so...

I couldn't contain myself.

[Mephiles]

Aya was my favorite girl and I finally fell in love with her, but i didn't hate the ending of the manga. Because Manaka for male char was so annoying for me. (I feel really sorry for Nishino about her choice, she deserves more) He doubt so much realizing his feelings, that ended up making me angry.

[taelrak]

ps:
i don't get it why some ppl really wants me to have a same thought as them that badly.
even decreasing my rep point just because i have a different thought. funny

I've no interest in making your opinions the same as mine. That would be boring.

It does annoy me when people deny facts (not opinions) that the mangaka tried so hard to portray just out of being stubborn.

No clue about your rep point comment. Certainly wasn't me since I never bother with a system that's pointless anyway.

I don't think perfection is boring....but since I've never seen anyone who's perfect, I guess I'm not qualified to give a solid opinion on that. Well...except when I look in the mirror of course

[MINAMI KOTARO]

@taelrak:
oh well...if it wasn't u, then some annoying ppl did that...
lets end this that way...sorry if it wasn't u, bro...
really, that person is a coward...
really funny...decreasing my rep points just because i'm different.
and he did it again...and didn't even show his name.
if he doesn't agree with me, just discuss it here, not at my back.

ah~ lets find another topic...

[DragoZERO]

I just finished reading this manga, it was really good too.

Spoiler for Satsuki:

The only problem I have is how he remained to be so innocent, especially after what Satsuki put him through. Granted its the nature of the manga, but still. Those scenes with her were awesome though.

Spoiler for Ending:

I think it was done wonderfully. Jumping four years into the future and seeing everyone happy and then Manaka meeting up with Nishino. The one thing I wished they addressed was Toujo's bra that Manaka found in that classroom. It just stayed at home with Yui the whole time? That would have made for some good chapters.

[Fran~]

One of the biggest mistery is what happen to Aya's bra...

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by MINAMI KOTARO

@taelrak:
oh well...if it wasn't u, then some annoying ppl did that...
lets end this that way...sorry if it wasn't u, bro...
really, that person is a coward...
really funny...decreasing my rep points just because i'm different.
and he did it again...

Just so you know, reputation can only be given from a specific person once in a long cycle -- so if you've gotten two reps, they were given by different people. Also you should be aware that complaining about reputation in public violates the forum rules. Be sure and read the forum rules...
------
Hmmm, when I look at your posts - I think the problem people may be having is that you're saying that all the girls "are equal" and you can't compare them. But then you contradict yourself and say the protagonist chose based on his taste. The very definition of "taste" implies comparison. A particular viewer may *like* a specific girl based on their own preferences/taste (which means they've compared the girls) that doesn't correspond to our "hero's" taste. I've noticed a fair number of harem genre fans don't seem to notice how the story plays out, they just 'ship for their girl with no regard for the storyliine.
------
The real question is - did the author convey Junpei's taste clearly enough that it finally became *clear* that choosing Nishino was right for HIM? My assessment is the author did not make her case. My recollection of the manga was that the hero was totally indecisive all the way to the end; every few chapters it was just musical chairs, there was no plot progression or real evolution in the relationship chain --- the epilog solution was just the result of a few coin flips (or survey polls or whatever). An epilog ending with any of the girls would have made just as much sense.

The only rationale I can see was that Nishino was his first real confession and girlfriend and at the end - that's how the author made her choice when having to write the epilog. When the publisher says "shut it down, sales are dropping and your story isn't making any progress" - an epilog is all you've got.

A minor counter-example: Love Hina. It was rambling but as it progressed to the end, you understood why Keitaro made the choices he did (even if you thought he was an idiot for making them).

Spoiler for Discussion of Love Hina progress and ending spoiler:

By some accounts he should have ended up with Motoko (even Naru thought so) but Keitaro was fixed on his notion of "the promise girl" and even if he had trouble getting along with Naru he was determined to make it work.

[kayote]

just finished the whole thing. and i do think he chose the right girl. as i said when i was reading it along the way for him Aya was a thought, but, Nishino was the only one for him. he loved the idea of Aya but, in the end he always felt more comfertable with Nishino.

liked the last couple of pages a lot. loved the last page where he drops the camera and lifts Nishino like crossing the threshold sort of image. in the end it was very good and i enjoyed it a lot.

felt very bad for satsuki who's feelings could never be answerd.

in the end he went with the right girl. Nishino was the right girl.

[kakakka]

The real question is - did the author convey Junpei's taste clearly enough that it finally became *clear* that choosing Nishino was right for HIM? My assessment is the author did not make her case. My recollection of the manga was that the hero was totally indecisive all the way to the end; every few chapters it was just musical chairs, there was no plot progression or real evolution in the relationship chain

This. That's why in the way the story is told, in a perspective where we want to see the protagonist evolve, the ending is bad.

[BetoJR]

I felt differently. Ever since the middle of the story, ever since Manaka started working at that theater, I just had a clear impression that he favored Nishino heavily. Maybe that's just me.

[Fran~]

He favoured Nishino from the first chapters... just read the manga... he confessed to Nishino and she accepted him...

Spoiler:

Game Over... enough shipping

[taelrak]

I think we've exhausted the Aya vs. Nishino debate for now. Let's head over to the Canvas 2 forum and start talking about that ending instead