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Blaat · 2014-07-23, 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

The MH17 also apparently was strayed off course just moment before being shot down, sparked the question whether it was navigation error or it was instructed to

MH17 being off course was a permitted clearance.

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https://youtu.be/6OJs1dksRwk

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A BUK TELAR in rebel controlled territory supposedly the location is over here and it was filmed five hours before the crash.

SaintessHeart · 2014-07-23, 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaat

MH17 being off course was a permitted clearance.

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A BUK TELAR in rebel controlled territory supposedly the location is over here and it was filmed five hours before the crash.

is it me, or is it just a kneejerk reaction of "Zat plane is following zus! Zhoot it down!"?

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2014-07-23, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

is it me, or is it just a kneejerk reaction of "Zat plane is following zus! Zhoot it down!"?

MSNBC showed a list of past military destruction of civilian jets. Including one case involving an American warship. This happens, and every time it happened: 1. It nearly is always an accident and 2. Those who did it always denied it until it was irrefutable. Russians denied it when they blew up a South Korean plane, and Americans denied it when the warship blew up an Iranian plane. I think it is more denial than anything else. People just don't want to admit the truth.

risingstar3110 · 2014-07-23, 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaat

MH17 being off course was a permitted clearance.

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A BUK TELAR in rebel controlled territory supposedly the location is over here and it was filmed five hours before the crash.

Video is deleted, man. But is there any official reply from Ukrainian on Russia accusations?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

MSNBC showed a list of past military destruction of civilian jets. Including one case involving an American warship. This happens, and every time it happened: 1. It nearly is always an accident and 2. Those who did it always denied it until it was irrefutable. Russians denied it when they blew up a South Korean plane, and Americans denied it when the warship blew up an Iranian plane. I think it is more denial than anything else. People just don't want to admit the truth.

The previous two incidents were different through, as both the US and the Russia then acknowledged that they shot the plane down, but claimed it was either because it is unresponsive to calls or fly into their respective military zone. In another word, they acknowledged that they shot the planes down, but denied it was their fault

This time however , both side denied that they made the shooting in the first place

Der Langrisser · 2014-07-23, 08:44

Planes drop like flies in Eastern Ukraine these days

That make it three in one week.

Fireminer · 2014-07-23, 09:54

I wonder whether these shot down hadn't happened if the Government had F-15E instead Su-25?

SaintessHeart · 2014-07-23, 12:45

Brawl breaks out in Ukrainian parliament over downed plane

Quote:

Rough Cut (no reporter narration) Ukraine's parliament approved a presidential decree on Tuesday (July 22) to call up more military reserves to fight rebels in eastern Ukraine, as scuffles broke out between members in the tense chamber. Some 45 days after the latest call-up of additional reserves, which has now expired, Kiev repeated the decree to conduct partial mobilisation to ensure the ranks of what Ukraine calls its "anti-terrorist operation" are filled. Brief scuffles broke out between nationalist politicians and members of the party that was led by the former president, Viktor Yanukovich, who was overthrown in February. When one member of Yanukovich's Regions party was thrown out of the chamber, Communist party colleagues also walked out in protest. He put the numbers close to the border at 41,000 and said they were equipped with 150 tanks, 1,400 armoured vehicles and 500 other weapon systems. Ukrainian troops have forced pro-Russian rebels back to their two main strongholds, the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, slowly taking villages and city suburbs around them. The army is under orders not to use air strikes and artillery in the cities, complicating operations to restore control despite Kiev's accusations that the rebels were responsible for the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner. The separatists deny the accusations. The motion was carried with 232 votes in favor in the 450-seat parliament. Russia withdrew most of the 40,000 troops it had close to the border earlier this year, reducing them to fewer than 1,000 by mid-June. But since then, it has been building up its forces again, a NATO military officer said this month. Moscow denies supplying the rebels.

Send the Marines.

kyp275 · 2014-07-23, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newhope

Russian claims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

claimsI tried to look for this, and found only mentioned in RT

If that doesn’t trip a warning flag for you, I’m not sure what will.

As for the rest, you’ll have to excuse me if I consider the “we’re not annexing Crimea…but we are!”/ ”These are not Russian troops!....well, they are Russian troops!” etc. Russia to be about as credible as your friendly neighborhood Nigerian Prince who is just dying to give you $20 mil if only you would wire him $20k first.

At least they deserve some points for creativity this time. Even I never expected them to trot out the Dutch Bloodraider Zombie Plane theory, gotta give credit where credit’s due.

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Btw, if you think I was a bit of a nut suspecting a mass terrorists actions could take place. Then I present you Yoichi Shimatsu.

This dude, claimed to be reporters and have visited a few related site and got a few interviews with experts before putting up his claim. Was stating that the plane, along with the civilians, were carrying a horde of dead bodies in its cargo, being drained of blood and infested with deadly virus. The cargo also carried a bomb and once arrived to Malaysia airport, will explode, spreading its virus to the highly dense population in Malaysia, allowing the disease to spread like wild fire across Asia from there. The plane actually was shot down by an Ukraine airplane to prevent it from reaching its destination...

His proof includes interviewing with local of crashing sites stating some dead bodies were not fresh and have been dried of blood. Or based on pictures of crash site, the plane appeared to explode mid air from inward and so on

If your goal was to make your claim less “nuts”, you just possibly chose the worst possible person to do it with.

Yoichi Shimatsu, the guy that claims Fukushima meltdown was caused by Israel attacking the plant with Stuxnet, and that Sandy Hook massacre was actually an retaliation by the child sex industry against the crackdowns, which is also tied with Satan worshippers and the CIA.

I mean, you can’t even make this **** up. Just look at what you yourself said about his claims, what is it, a reject script for Resident Evil 7? Forget tinfoils, this is straight up tin bricks.

risingstar3110 · 2014-07-23, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyp275

If that doesn’t trip a warning flag for you, I’m not sure what will.

As for the rest, you’ll have to excuse me if I consider the “we’re not annexing Crimea…but we are!”/ ”These are not Russian troops!....well, they are Russian troops!” etc. Russia to be about as credible as your friendly neighborhood Nigerian Prince who is just dying to give you $20 mil if only you would wire him $20k first.

At least they deserve some points for creativity this time. Even I never expected them to trot out the Dutch Bloodraider Zombie Plane theory, gotta give credit where credit’s due.

If your goal was to make your claim less “nuts”, you just possibly chose the worst possible person to do it with.

Yoichi Shimatsu, the guy that claims Fukushima meltdown was caused by Israel attacking the plant with Stuxnet, and that Sandy Hook massacre was actually an retaliation by the child sex industry against the crackdowns, which is also tied with Satan worshippers and the CIA.

I mean, you can’t even make this **** up. Just look at what you yourself said about his claims, what is it, a reject script for Resident Evil 7? Forget tinfoils, this is straight up tin bricks.

Eh no. I'm just sharing a ridiculous story i found on the net, while you are being a dick about it

And if your local "Nigerian prince" has a nuclear arsenal large enough to wipe off the Earth. Then yes, we have to take his words very carefully

Der Langrisser · 2014-07-23, 17:27

The separatists are now admitting they had Buks

It's about friggin' time.

kyp275 · 2014-07-23, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Eh no. I'm just sharing a ridiculous story i found on the net, while you are being a dick about it

Eh, I read your post as you were using the crazy dude to support your theory. Regardless, I certainly wasn't "being a dick about it", unless to you being a dick means not agreeing with you.

Quote:

And if your local "Nigerian prince" has a nuclear arsenal large enough to wipe off the Earth. Then yes, we have to take his words very carefully

Great, and has completely nothing to do with what I was saying, which is Russia's CREDIBILITY.

One can have all the nuke in the universe, it doesn't make a zombie plane story any less ridiculous.

Xellos-_^ · 2014-07-23, 18:05

So Russia and the Rebel's excuse is that Ukrainian government made them fire the missile.

kyp275 · 2014-07-23, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

So Russia and the Rebel's excuse is that Ukrainian government made them fire the missile.

Well you know, it's just like criminals arguing that it really wasn't their fault, their victim just made them rob them, if only they didn't have money.

Oh yea, and they totally got in the way of the bullet, it was totally their fault there too!

Blaat · 2014-07-24, 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Video is deleted, man.

Nope I failed at tags, I believe the video is now working correctly.

risingstar3110 · 2014-07-24, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyp275

Eh, I read your post as you were using the crazy dude to support your theory. Regardless, I certainly wasn't "being a dick about it", unless to you being a dick means not agreeing with you.

Great, and has completely nothing to do with what I was saying, which is Russia's CREDIBILITY.

One can have all the nuke in the universe, it doesn't make a zombie plane story any less ridiculous.

It's totally valid using a theory about zombie apocalypse to support the theory that the plane was attacked by terrorists, right?

And did the Russia Chief of staff mentioned anything about zombie plane story? Or did you mistake that Japanese reporter dude as Russian Chief of Staff? You know reporter can't own a nuclear arsenal, right?

SaintessHeart · 2014-07-24, 12:02

Can you guys refrain from personal attacks here? We are trying to have a proper discussion here.

kyp275 · 2014-07-24, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Can you guys refrain from personal attacks here? We are trying to have a proper discussion here.

Pretty sure I haven’t attacked anyone >_>

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

It's totally valid using a theory about zombie apocalypse to support the theory that the plane was attacked by terrorists, right?

And did the Russia Chief of staff mentioned anything about zombie plane story? Or did you mistake that Japanese reporter dude as Russian Chief of Staff? You know reporter can't own a nuclear arsenal, right?

I have no idea what you’re trying to say with the zombie + terrorist bit.

I’m pretty sure the zombie plane theory was not started by that JP conspiracy nut. IIRC that idea, along with others like the missiles were intended for Putin’s planes were floated by Russian media at around the same time.

Given how tightly Russian medias are controlled by the state, I see no meaningful distinction between what their media and their govt. says, it’s all part of the same propaganda machine.

risingstar3110 · 2014-07-24, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyp275

Pretty sure I haven’t attacked anyone >_>

I have no idea what you’re trying to say with the zombie + terrorist bit.

I’m pretty sure the zombie plane theory was not started by that JP conspiracy nut. IIRC that idea, along with others like the missiles were intended for Putin’s planes were floated by Russian media at around the same time.

Given how tightly Russian medias are controlled by the state, I see no meaningful distinction between what their media and their govt. says, it’s all part of the same propaganda machine.

That is a bit too suspicious, my friend. People can be nut even when they are not part of Putin propaganda machine

I simply just take RT more or less as Russian spokesman in this case. And i know you can simply discredit them. But when the investigation come back, there would have to be solid arguments to debunk their points. On the other hand if it is really the Russian doing this, they will keep it murky, as, as long as it was still unconfirmed there will still doubt in people mind, they won't have to be responsible. Innocent until proven, kinda things. A bit like that Korean warship incident

Gravitas Free Zone · 2014-08-09, 16:06

I've seen this IS-3 photo in two different Ukraine news pieces today.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28724487

And it's getting further and further out of context each time, considering that it's a museum piece that the rebels grabbed.

SaintessHeart · 2014-08-09, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

I've seen this IS-3 photo in two different Ukraine news pieces today.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28724487

And it's getting further and further out of context each time, considering that it's a museum piece that the rebels grabbed.

Spare a thought for journalists - they have rice bowls to fill. [/sarcasm]

2014-07-23, 18:05	Link #752
Xellos-_^ Not Enough Sleep Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: R'lyeh Age: 48	So Russia and the Rebel's excuse is that Ukrainian government made them fire the missile. __________________

2014-07-24, 12:02	Link #756
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	Can you guys refrain from personal attacks here? We are trying to have a proper discussion here. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2014-07-23, 08:44	Link #745
Der Langrisser Valkyrie pilot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rouen, France Age: 40	Planes drop like flies in Eastern Ukraine these days That make it three in one week.

2014-07-23, 09:54	Link #746
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	I wonder whether these shot down hadn't happened if the Government had F-15E instead Su-25?

2014-07-23, 17:27	Link #750
Der Langrisser Valkyrie pilot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rouen, France Age: 40	The separatists are now admitting they had Buks It's about friggin' time.

2014-08-09, 16:06	Link #759
Gravitas Free Zone Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012	I've seen this IS-3 photo in two different Ukraine news pieces today. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28724487 And it's getting further and further out of context each time, considering that it's a museum piece that the rebels grabbed.