2011-06-24, 08:24 | Link #7761 | |
I am a Boxer
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where hot girls are fighting!
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We jumped from Asuka and Haruto get together, to Asuka and Haruto break-up.. This is not realistic...
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2011-06-24, 08:27 | Link #7762 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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The point of the storyline was "they 'are together', but there's no progress between them". And this kind of relationship development is VERY realistic actually. |
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2011-06-24, 08:46 | Link #7763 | |
I am a Boxer
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where hot girls are fighting!
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I think that, if there had been little development, good or bad, it would be better for the story in this manga.
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2011-06-24, 08:58 | Link #7764 | |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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I suppose we'll have to disagree on some points with the manga, then. You're right in that it didn't go in a direction that I liked. I think most people call it bad writing out of frustration.... but, as has been mentioned before, what people consider good and bad writing is subjective to the person reading it. For me, it's not bad writing because it's frustrating, but more because of me being a logical person, can't wrap my head around some of the illogical things that the characters do, no matter if they're realistic or not, as I mentioned in my last post. Comes from being raised from a very scientific family. Not to mention the time skip of two years to avoid developing a character or a relationship (seriously, two years and no sex is just strange). It's like Seo painted a big bullseye on Asuksa's forehead that said "Rejected" when he did that. I would have preferred him to at least make us believe she had an actual shot instead of telling us she was expendable from the get-go. Would have made things much more interesting than watching him waste chapters on useless characters like Shiori (I mean, did she even have a point other than to show us that Haruto had no problems lying to Asuka?) as people waited for Eba to come back. He handled the whole thing much better in Suzuka with Honoka. I've been in Haruto's position. I was dumped for a girl by someone else and we met up again a couple years later and wanted to start over again. I turned her down, despite being single, because I had put the past behind me and I didn't want to get stuck back in it and had moved on. Haruto's doing basically the opposite of what I did. I'm a big fan of putting the past behind you and looking towards the future and the actions in KNIM all seem to be stuck in the past-- Eba loving Haruto because he helped her in the past (once), Haruto unable to move past his feelings for her. I've never really found that to be a healthy attitude, personally, though others may disagree. And I know where you're coming from with wanting to beat your friends senseless, but it not working. One friend is now (miserably) married to a woman who used him quite a bit. My sister got played by an ex so many times that every time I stayed up late at night comforting her, it got harder to do so after every time she went back (thank goodness she finally got rid of him and is now engaged to a really great guy who loves her). I know people act irrationally when it comes to love, but I definitely don't like it. As for Eba not deserving Haruto, I don't think that. Considering some of the awful things Haruto has done lately, I'm surprised she'd want a guy like him. Honestly, though, to me it's more like they just don't belong together anymore. I was once a huge supporter of Haruto x Eba before the Tokyo arc. After that, the whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth and I began to think that they really should move on. This goes along with my whole stuck in the past thing, but imo, the characters haven't really grown or changed too much since the story started. It's almost as if after this, they'll be back at square one without any real wisdom gained from all of this. That's not just this manga, though. A lot of mangas are like that until the end and it's a shame. That includes Suzuka, where Yamato didn't really change until after he got Suzuka pregnant, and Ichigo 100% where Manaka didn't really mature until the last several chapters. I'd love to read a manga where the characters consistently change and grow throughout the story instead of it all happening at once at the end. And one more point, while it's true that Ichigo 100% became a cycle for Aya and Satsuki, Tsukasa actually grew up quite a bit throughout the series. She's really the only one who did. But, I think we're starting to get off topic here. :P Anyway. if there's one thing I've come to realize is that in any opinion we form, whether about manga, movies, politics, etc. it's all shaped by our own life experiences, which is why I doubt there will ever be a consensus on whether or not this manga is good or not. :P Depends on what you're looking for, I guess.
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2011-06-24, 09:16 | Link #7765 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I see people are having fun debating although for me the only bad writing comes from the Tokyo arc where it was irrational/illogical and out of character, the author could actually use more background to make it palatable but instead just gave everyone this wtf and well moving on lol. The rest after was meh or I stop caring. Well I would like to see someone defend the Tokyo arc with that entire BS.
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I always bring up the Yuzuki who hid in the forest only to be with Haruto showing she has no interest in other and was devoted to just one person. So I couldn't understand why there couldn't be another choice in her decision at the time. Unless people want to use she is a weak girl who is easily manipulated by puppy dog’s eye on crutches lol. Moving on from the past is a fine logic although in KniM the past was never saved nor corrected when Yuzuki was the one who needed help the most, I feel from my position she was the biggest victim in all this, I would say being stuck with someone you don't like and being with them due to obligation and in the process losing the one you do love. What do people really see in all this I wonder. I see it being unfair to burden a single character who was quite happy before this, cheerful and energetic would describe the Yuzuki of the past. Also she could never solve her own issue and Haruto was the one who would save her. I will call that fate. Characters that have a strong bond enough that made Haruto and Nanami fall apart so easily only to have it destroy by the Gods (Seo) in this case. I would characterised force writing is a form of bad writing when you take too much liberty from the characters themselves. Asuka............. no comment just a convient character there to slap Haruto and then dissapear forever lol. Last edited by Nemuru; 2011-06-24 at 09:44. |
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2011-06-24, 09:24 | Link #7766 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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KLGchaos: Well, then we're actually not THAT far apart.
I mean look - in "Suzuka", I raged hard at how Seo treated Honoka, a girl much more deserving of the male lead's love. Two times lookswise and five times personalitywise compared to Suzuka. Trust me, I understand the irritation all too well. The point is that I'm convinced that Seo has a psychological defect. He even partly admitted to it in an interview. He is living his male leads, and emotional compulsion - to be hardwired on one girl no matter what - is the name of his game. No matter how abusive (Suzuka) or needy (Eba) these girls are, he's forced back to them. That's the only kind of story he can write. Why do I still read them? First of course, naturally, because his artwork is amazing. The girls drawn by him are hotter than hotterson on the physical side, and he also knows how to make them appealing personalitywise aswell. The SIDE characters, that is. Think Miki, Yui and especially Honoka in Suzuka. Think all the girls sans Shiori in KNIM. They're making it all worthwhile, even when the male lead bumbles around again. It's a slice of life you can watch and sometimes bear with a slight sigh. Don't let it get to you too much ^_^; ... he's writing about real life, no sweet romance fantasies. It's much more grey... |
2011-06-24, 09:25 | Link #7767 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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2011-06-24, 09:34 | Link #7768 | |
I am a Boxer
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where hot girls are fighting!
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I think, in Suzuka, the break-up between Yamato and Honoka is different between that Asuka and Haruto...
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2011-06-24, 09:44 | Link #7769 | |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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And yeah, Honoka was 1000 times better than Suzuka. The latter eventually came around in the last 20 chapters or so of the series, but it still made me wonder just what he saw in her abusiveness. I will admit, though, Suzuka had a lot more "moments" than KNIM has had-- the firefly scene when they visited Hiroshima being one of my favorites. They helped take the edge off of Suzuka's general bitchiness. The ice flower thing is probably the closest this series has produced and it definitely didn't really have the impact it should have. Of course, I felt the whole part with them getting together didn't come close to the graveyard confession in Suzuka either. Accepting a confession while getting a train doesn't quite have the same "oomph" as a girl telling her dead ex-love that she really loved someone else at his grave. I still can't see this as too realistic, though. I think I was spoiled by GE, which portrayed lots of character growth through it's chapters and much more down to earth characters.... though that's starting to take a turn for rageville as well with these last few chapters. Can understand where the main girl is coming from, but it's still seriously messed up. I do have to wonder if Seo is married or has a girlfriend in real life. If his characters really are a reflection of how he really is... I'd be scared.
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2011-06-24, 10:01 | Link #7770 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I remember you did wrote a post saying how you found her action (Yuzuki) admirable while writing about the difference in opinion you have with the many others that dislike the entire arc. Answer me this, do you intend to debate again on this topic enough that warrants me to take the next step? Or would it be consuming more of my time than neccessary. |
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2011-06-24, 10:59 | Link #7771 |
.: A bad doggy :.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I consider it bad writing because he's just tossing characters left and right to the whim of whatever's convenient for him. Sure some of these resulting actions might be realistic but I really can't believe that it was intended to be that way. I was fine with Eba and Haruto before the Tokyo arc and there's still a part of me that clearly wants to see them together in some form, but not at the expense of having to fucking ruin other characters to do it. There's no point in having side characters in KNIM at all now. They might all be obstacles but when the lead runner is just forced to go in circles then shit doesn't go anywhere. I sincerely believe the side characters are little more than fanservice fodder at this point and while I love fan service I would enjoy it more as a bonus to being developed as a character then just a fucking distraction. Good Ending is a perfect example of it being done right.
Fuck it. Bring back the retardedly hot older classmate who black mailed him. What about that absurdly delicious chef he worked with for like two god damn chapters? Get them bother together and throw in Kiyomi for good measure. AWESOMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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2011-06-24, 11:06 | Link #7772 | |
Part Time Translator
Join Date: May 2011
Location: East Coast
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we all knew eba is coming back for the ending. ... and it was going to get ugly... we just didn't know how exactly it was going to go down until now. i'm going to accept this and move on. |
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2011-06-24, 12:26 | Link #7773 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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It was you who complained about how illogical the Tokyo arc was. I say it wasn't, and yeah, I considered Yuzuki's actions in Tokyo to be admirable. Whether or not you want to debate the point is up to you. Quote:
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2011-06-24, 12:35 | Link #7774 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Oct 2007
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What would "save" this series in my mind is if Yuzuki pulls some utterly charming shit for the next 10 chapters to make readers fall in love with her until the very end. Of course Haruto will need to acquire a set of nuts to complement such development.
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2011-06-24, 12:42 | Link #7775 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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We also have Kiyomi, who has her standards and is picky about who she likes. Then Haruto says that Takashi likes her and all of a sudden she becomes a tsundere towards him in an instant. |
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2011-06-24, 12:56 | Link #7776 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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So that's "ruining" characters for you? My my... |
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Tags |
a town where you rage, adult romance, drama, ecchi, logic doesn't apply, manga, nice christmas gift seo, power ups, romance, seo kouji, shounen, slice of life |
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