2009-08-26, 11:57 | Link #61 | |
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Carried over from the 0079 discussion thread:
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2009-08-26, 13:42 | Link #62 |
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[QUOTE=Rawinder;2606016]Carried over from the 0079 discussion thread:
I would consider ZZ's treatment of characters like Bright, Haman, Yazan--and just the whole situation in general--as both disrespectful and a betrayal of what happened in Zeta. /QUOTE] I feel the same. When I think about ZZ, the first thing that comes to my mind is Bright chasing chickens.
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2009-08-26, 17:26 | Link #63 | |
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I found the idea of a super uptight guy like Bright chasing chickens quite hilarious, thank you very much. And a spiteful guy like Yazan deserved being the butt of jokes. And what's wrong with what they did to Haman? The fact that she got overly attached to Judau? Well, she got overly attached to Char too, so its not exactly new. I don't find any of that "disrespectful". In fact, I find it quite silly that one can "disrespect" a fictional character.
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Last edited by brightman; 2009-08-26 at 17:38. |
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2009-08-26, 18:11 | Link #64 | |
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And I don't think it's silly to say you can disrespect a fictional character. If you have a character act a certain way, and then put them in a situation where they're acting stupidly or out-of-character for the sake of humor/plot contrivance/whatever, then it feels like a slap in the face to both the character and the person invested in that character. I'm not talking about just Gundam here, but any tv show. |
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2009-08-26, 19:17 | Link #65 | |
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I know, but IMO its not me, its you.
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2009-08-26, 21:21 | Link #66 |
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I don't think Bright beating the insubordination out of people can really be construed as silly. Yazan was a straight up killer in Zeta, so watching him monkey around in ZZ (parachuting with a jacket?) was out of character. And as for Haman, I don't think her relationship with Char is all that comparable to the one with Judau, but that wasn't really what I was getting at in the first place. While her having any sort of relationship with Judau is stupid, it's the way she goes out that disappoints me more; it was a pretty anti-climactic end to her character and to the show.
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2009-08-26, 21:32 | Link #67 | ||
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As for the anti-climatic ending, that goes for most of Tomino's villains, unfortunately. I wouldn't single out Haman when Char just abruptly disappears in CCA with the stupidest last line, Katejina just disappears from the final battle after Uso waves his shiny wings (only to resurface as a blind begger for no reason), and Gym Ghingnham decides to duel Loran for no reason and stupidly gets wrapped up in a cocoon, also seemingly for no reason.
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2009-08-26, 21:40 | Link #68 |
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I don't think the staff were disrespectful in the treatment of Haman. She just happened to be very attached to Judau, it happens to newtypes all the time(She kept trying to get Judau to join her many times even during the last fight). Her end was an disappointment but hey she died with an smile.
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2009-08-26, 21:56 | Link #69 | |||
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And that anti-climactic remark goes for the whole finale. In addition to the Judau/Haman fight, I was also disappointed with how the Mark II and Zeta go down so easily and lamely. Though at least the Zeta still got one last shot off, which was badass. Last edited by Rawinder; 2009-08-26 at 22:24. |
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2009-08-27, 06:07 | Link #70 | ||
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2009-08-27 at 08:21. |
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2009-08-27, 06:08 | Link #71 |
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But all in all, back on topic. I don't think naming something worse can justify the mistakes of ZZ. The fact remains that it built a certain atmosphere and developed characters in a certain way in Z, just to completley change the mood of it in ZZ. That doesn't always mean bad writing, but it always alienates your original fans, and that's never a good thing.
Speaking of Haman, I really didn't enjoy the way she went out as well. In fact I didn't think Judau was a worthy final boss for her. Last edited by 4Tran; 2009-08-27 at 08:21. |
2009-08-27, 06:21 | Link #72 | ||
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2009-08-27, 06:33 | Link #73 | |
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Even if it wasn't intended as a sequel, it sure is advertised as one. If it wasn't a sequel at all then it is a trap. Double Zeta also tried to change the tone of the series in the second half, making it more dark and gritty like Zeta. I don't know what the real reasons of the sudden change is for, but from what I can tell it seems like Tomino is just trying to salvage what's left of the show. Last edited by 4Tran; 2009-08-27 at 08:22. |
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2009-08-27, 08:38 | Link #75 | |||||
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2009-08-27, 09:29 | Link #76 | ||||
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And as jonli pointed out, I don't think your example works. Char is still fighting against the Earth on the behalf of spacenoids; the only people he double-crossed were the Zabis, who are all dead; and he's still quite the badass. Last edited by Rawinder; 2009-08-27 at 09:42. |
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2009-08-27, 10:36 | Link #78 | |
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I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me here, though, I thought we were on the same side! :P Last edited by Rawinder; 2009-08-27 at 11:02. |
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2009-08-27, 12:45 | Link #79 | ||||||
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Of course, you can say the same exact thing about Zeta being a continuation of MSG too. But Zeta is not MSG, Season 2 either, even though its also got a totally different tone from it. Its noticably darker and overly serious, and in fact, that was a big complaint of TV viewers back then, and a big reason why it wasn't as popular with viewers as the first MSG (according to Tomino) Quote:
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IMO there was really not much of a Zeta-like atmosphere in the show anyway. Characters were still resorting to slapstick. A lot of sneaking around and playful antics that were noticably more light-hearted. The Tigerbaum arc was anything but Zeta-like. Just because there was a noticibly darker tone, doesn't mean they were trying to recreate Zeta. In fact, Tomino already said one of the reasons why ZZ isn't more like Zeta was because he didn't like that it was way too depressing for people.
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Last edited by brightman; 2009-08-27 at 12:59. |
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2009-08-27, 13:49 | Link #80 | |||||
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It is if one show is a direct sequel to another. Why do you think the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi got such a bad rap?
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I also find it hard to believe that Zeta was at all unpopular with viewers. All I've ever heard is praise for Zeta, many people calling it the best Gundam series. The fact that the movies were as successful as they were, 20 years after the series came out, is a testament to how popular the show is. Quote:
Anyway, at this point I'm just repeating myself. I can't really make myself any clearer than I already have, and if you're not going to acknowledge something like ZZ being a sequel to Zeta, then there's no point in me continuing. No offense intended, it just seems that the debate is going in circles now. Last edited by Rawinder; 2009-08-27 at 14:39. Reason: sounded meaner than I intended |
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