2010-08-18, 16:54 | Link #61 | ||
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Lets see if I can poke some more holes into this belief.
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-Barry mistook his own evolution from Adjuchas to Arrancar for Adjuchas to VL or -Barry is so incredibly arrogant and stupid that he would still proclaim himself as the strongest hollow and a King despite knowing full well of the existence of hollows that are stronger than him. Needless to say, those possibilities aren't very likely IMO. It's also hard to believe he could establish himself as a ruler without having once ever encountered a real Vasto Lorde. Finally it would imply that Vasto Lordes live completely isolated lives. And despite their need to consume hollows, they can remain completely off the radar and that they're perfectly fine being ruled over by beings supposedly weaker than themselves. Besides, there's no evidence to suggest Aizen was ever able to increase the strength of pre-hougyoku arrancar. In fact, their's evidence to suggest only the opposite. Remember the Privaron Espada? Last time I checked, the only thing that happened to most of these guys after the Hogyoku came into play was their demotion from the top 10. So much for getting stronger. Yeah. Halibel comes off as such an arrogant egomaniac. So she'd probably never deny false praise and claims of being a VL. Quote:
(http://bleachasylum.com/threads/1542...=1#post2451952) the definition "mostly" was admittedly the definition that was likely intended. Of course, that won't stop people who wish to believe otherwise from debating hotondo to mean "almost" instead. |
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2010-08-18, 17:26 | Link #62 |
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I don't see why there's still a VL hype, after seeing:
a) Barragan established as king of HM, and b) Stark splitting into two after killing piles of hollows with so much as a sneeze. I mean, cmon, what MORE could new VLs possibly offer to the story at this point? About the episode: damn, it's good to have characters with a backstory! I welcome this kind of episodes anytime. |
2010-08-18, 19:25 | Link #63 | |
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Stark- Didn't a fair shot. Kyoraku's zanpaktou can take out any hollow obviously Barragan- lost by his own ability to age himself Tia Halibel- Could have won probably, but of course was killed by Aizen. Toshiro used his strongest attack on Halibel and this is what originally happened. This not really a spoiler Spoiler for Bleach NOT MANGA SPOILER this is what the anime alternated:
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2010-08-18, 20:27 | Link #65 | |
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2010-08-19, 04:06 | Link #69 |
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Barragan I can understand, since his abilities are so unique, but there's more or less no indication Halibel and especially Stark are really any stronger than Ulquiorra.
Stark seems completely confused about basic combat maneuvers. Even if he is potentially the strongest arrancar, it certainly didn't manifest itself during combat as his lethargy and apathy limited his combat abilities. You can't rank someone on talent alone--a fighter is the complete package: talent, physical, mental. Stark is mentally weak. Halibel has to be the slowest Espada of all, not to mention her physical strength is about on par with a shikai captain. Asside from her slow as molasses tidal waves I'm not sure what she has going for her. She doesn't even seem to know she has a cero. It seems to me she's just a stronger Aaroniero (#9). Based on how these battles ended I bet Ichigo wishes he could face Stark or Halibel instead of Ulquiorra. In particular, Stark's abilities are basically variations of Byakuya's wave attacks and the battle would look like Ichigo vs Byakuya II. It also appears that Stark is a paper tiger (or glass canon) and Ichigo won't have to worry about dealing with Ulqiorra-level Hierro. Last edited by astrallionheart; 2010-08-19 at 04:18. |
2010-08-19, 06:04 | Link #70 | |
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With Barragan, sure Hachi killed him, but in the end he never actually needed his vizard powers... Tensai or anyother shinigami with high level kido could have done the same thing... but ofcourse, i give a pass to this since barry atleast proved that he was damn incredibly by surviving a nuke to the face; and it was a clever way to beat him. As for Stark... no they didn't... reason stark got hit by that first attack was purely because of the nature of Kyoraku's shadow shikai game. the vizards made no difference at all really... And stark was ultimately taken down because he was apparently too slow to block or dodge Kyoraku's last hit and too weak to survive it... And really that's the core of the complaint... much like non-vizard fights of IchigoVSGrimjow and IchigoVSUlq, Halibel and Stark should have been practically untouchable to a captain. In their resurrected forms, their power should have been so incredible that none of the captains should have been able to touch them much less deal anykind of meaningful damage. the fights should have been one sided with the SS captains loosing so fast it would make your head spin... It's only when a Captain shows up, supported with the augmenting power of a Vizard mask would they actually stand a chance... Yamaji and Aizen are probably the only captains i might exempt from this |
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2010-08-19, 07:05 | Link #71 | |||||
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If Hallibel is a VL, then that isn't really saying much about how strong VL are, if they can get their asses handed to them by some wimpy Adjuchus that got a slight powerboost from the orb. Quote:
Although it would make sense as to why Stark was perfectly human when we saw him in that flashback, and would account for Barragan's apperance. Meh. Disapointing...veyr disapointing to say the least...that VL arrancar could be that pitifully weak and beaten that easily. I choose to accept the view that they were close to that level but not quite there... |
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2010-08-19, 16:36 | Link #72 |
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So...what's your point here? They're just expanding on her past for the sake of drawing things out a bit before they really have to go into a non-manga story. Though this flashback would of held more weight if Halibel was more of an important character. Regardless, it doesn't affect the manga story at all.
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2010-08-19, 16:42 | Link #73 | |
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2010-08-19, 18:28 | Link #74 | ||
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As for Starrk the FIRST attack had nothing to do with Kyoraku's shadow game. Starrk was caught off guard he had completely forgotten about Kyoraku. Thta is how he was able to seep in
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Last edited by secretzfan; 2010-08-19 at 19:02. |
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2010-08-19, 19:58 | Link #77 | |||||
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1.) They have humanoid forms 2.) They're clearly stronger than non-arrancar adjuchas. Coincidentally enough, the top 3 espada have all been shown to match these two descriptions perfectly. Quote:
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Notice the two things these situations have in common though is that both Rukia and Hitsugaya were going by hearsay only. Neither one of them had ever encountered either a gillian or a vasto lorde prior to speaking about it. All they had to go on were rumors of things Kubo himself hadn't even finalized the details on at the time. So is it possible for the VL's strength to be greatly exaggerated? You bet it is. |
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2010-08-19, 20:14 | Link #78 |
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So you admit to knowing "virtually nothing about them" but yet somehow you know the top 3 couldn't have been VL's? Ok, but seriously we do at least know two things for sure
1.) They have humanoid forms 2.) They're clearly stronger than non-arrancar adjuchas. Coincidentally enough, the top 3 espada have all been shown to match these two descriptions perfectly. Wait the top 3 espada do succeed captain's level because Ichigo is at captain's level and wouldn't be able to beat them. In truth the arguement of Vl goes as afras saying that Ulquirra is a Vl as well. So it is actually top 4.
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Last edited by secretzfan; 2010-08-19 at 22:11. |
2010-08-19, 21:47 | Link #79 |
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the problem with him supposedly being caught off guard was that it pretty much happened when he touched the ground...Shunsui would of needed time to actually get in the shadow if I'm judging that power correctly...
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