2008-04-13, 10:29 | Link #61 | |
ハイパー武器英雄
Join Date: Jan 2007
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What he has a problem with is the discrimination that comes along with it. THAT is what he wishes to change. If Britannia becomes a good empire in the end, what's the problem with it ruling the world? And because of Suzaku's luck in meeting good natured and/or practical people IN POWER, he has a chance of achieving it. In case you didn't understand, Lelouch is also going to embark on such an operation if he succeeds in destroying Britannia. He brazenly calls himself "the man who will rule the world" after all.
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2008-04-13, 10:32 | Link #62 | ||
The Last Frontier
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I think the biggest mistake people make with Suzaku is that they try to seperate what he says from what he does. Which is farcical in my pov, since he's the type who claimed that violence was wrong, and that you should do things the right way. Was invading Europe the right way then? You can say it's his job, but unfortunately, just because it's his job doesn't mean he has to do it. He could always quit, but then he'd never reach his dream of stopping all violence through the use of violence. Of course, it's questionable whether he would have in the first place.
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edit: Btw, if he wants to stop the discrimination, stop invading other countries. People aren't going to be too happy when they get conquered and with the way the Britainnian empire thinks, the very fact the other country lost already means it's inferior. I mean , it's also possible that one day the Emperor will die peacefully and then the next heir to the throne will suddenly decide to free all the colonies and live in peace forever. But is that likely? I find that arguing that things could happen without much basis for it kinda useless.
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2008-04-13, 10:41 | Link #63 | |
White Empress
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Last edited by Airi; 2008-04-13 at 10:53. |
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2008-04-13, 10:42 | Link #64 | |||||
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Suzaku said it to Kallen in the festival that he does things the way he does them. Since he MET Euphemia and especially after the "confession" Suzaku does not stand by his words that much anymore. His actions and of course his words won't mesh well anymore. The more you try to make those two things come together, the more you'll only get a mix of past+present+future that will literally MAKE NO SENSE. And that is the mistake I was talking about. Suzaku is literally changing in front of us that's why you can't keep doing that with him. Quote:
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Suzaku's methods are slow. They have the possibility of working, but it is slow. Quote:
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Schneizel IS Lelouch x 2 - geass(?).
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2008-04-13, 10:52 | Link #65 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quite simply, for each day he keep doing what he does now, the harder it would be to undo the damage he help cause. And by constantly going backwards, he will never reach his goal. It doesn't matter how much time he spend on it, Britannia will not change because he is helping Britannia in making it stronger and harder to change.
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2008-04-13, 10:56 | Link #66 |
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
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in short, he will finally realise that rather then being able to change the mechanics of the Empire from within, the system has grind and mould him to conform to the system instead.
Just like Dark Vader, noble intent twisted to become another (exceptional) cog in the machine. well done Suzuku, hated when you were waffing about, but now you on the dark side, you got kudos.
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2008-04-13, 10:56 | Link #67 | |
ハイパー武器英雄
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When he has amassed the power, then he can change it through his will. Also, a stronger Britannia is not a harder to change Britannia. All it takes is a change in people's perceptions and the backing of Imperial power. He knows this is possible precisely because he knows people in Britannia like Cecile, Lloyd, and most importantly, Schneizel, Cornelia, AND Euphemia. Remember what Cornelia told Euphemia in the Knighting episode, the Emperor has such power. All Suzaku needs is to obtain such favor and the future can become his.
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2008-04-13, 11:01 | Link #68 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
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In case you haven't noticed, you are claiming Suzaku should treat Europeans the way Britannians treat the Japanese; means to get power. The fact that he is killing a LOT of innocent people in the process appear to be okay to you as long as it is what the Emperor wants... I thought you claim Suzaku tried to change Britannia from the inside in order to prevent bloodshed? Or does European blood not count as blood?
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2008-04-13, 11:03 | Link #69 | ||||
The Last Frontier
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2008-04-13, 11:04 | Link #70 | |
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I haven't even seen Suzaku kill a lot of innocent people yet. If anyone's had innocents get killed for the sake of obtaining his goal, it's LELOUCH that does that. Is it bad that Suzaku is now and ONLY NOW willing to use people to achieve his goals while it's still okay for Lelouch to do so? Don't use that argument against Suzaku if you're going to let Lelouch of the hook for the same thing.
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2008-04-13, 11:06 | Link #71 | |
Logician and Romantic
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Suzaku had been spending the last year fighting in the European Front. The Europeans are fighting for their right to be free, and Suzaku is killing them. How is that NOT innocent blood spilt?
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2008-04-13, 11:10 | Link #72 | ||||
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2008-04-13, 11:13 | Link #73 | |
ハイパー武器英雄
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All three power blocs are challenging each other for domination.
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2008-04-13, 11:18 | Link #74 | |
Logician and Romantic
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This isn't a power struggle. Britannia is INVADING Europe. And Suzaku is helping. Whatever sorry excuse Suzaku had of claiming Lulu being too violent in his ways is completely invalidated by the fact that Suzaku is kill far more people than Lulu right now. Suzaku's old excuse is that his way is more "right", but how is helping an invasion force "right"? How is killing people for the purpose of taking their land and wealth, "right"? Please offer an explanation for how his method is somehow more HUMANE than Lulu's.
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2008-04-13, 11:21 | Link #75 | ||||
The Last Frontier
Join Date: Apr 2004
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And again, whether he changed from S1 is hard to say because he hasn't appeared much in S2. Quote:
And to be honest, I don't think it'll ever happen, a world without discrimination or without violence. Quote:
So how can he have hope? A man who would prefer to die? Hope for what? That his actions will change Britainnia in the far-off future when he'd rather die? I find the two contradictory to say the least. He didn't join the army because he had hope imo, but more because it was the only choice he could choose after rationalizing everything that he had done and his own inner desire. Quote:
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2008-04-13, 11:24 | Link #76 | |||
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It IS a struggle for domination. And this Suzaku is different from the Suzaku from before. Suzaku from before employed the Jesus style of fighting. I doubt this Suzaku would even care if he dismembers enemy soldiers or vaporizes them with his VARIS. Suzaku's excuse for hating Zero is all in the past now. You can't use it against him now that he's actually changed quite a bit. Besides, he's never had qualms killing enemy soldiers when they presented a viable threat to him in season 1. Quote:
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2008-04-13, 11:28 | Link #77 | |
Logician and Romantic
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Suzaku's goal is to ensure world dominance by Britannia, so he can feel better about himself for killing his father. Both his Ends AND Means are wrong. Thus, he is now a full-fledge villain with no redeeming points whatsoever.
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2008-04-13, 11:29 | Link #78 | ||||
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And since he believes Britannia to be unbeatable, that is the only hope he has, hope in people (like the Britannians he knows) and hope that he can change the system with said people. Quote:
Nearly everything he's done, Lelouch would have done if he were in the same position. He nearly checkmated Lelouch's Black Knights using Euphemia's peace plan, something that he accepts as normal for an empire: acceptance of its conquered peoples.
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2008-04-13, 11:31 | Link #80 | |
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That's actually quite a lot of redeeming points there. Almost like Celestial Being... now that I think about it...
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