2012-02-26, 07:18 | Link #61 | ||
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Quote:
The fact that it might have triggered a chain of events leading toward a new war doesn't mean they wanted it to happen. Quote:
|
||
2012-02-26, 09:22 | Link #62 |
Upon a wishing Star
Join Date: Dec 2011
|
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Wasn't it because of the Idiot Tobi who used the Kyuubi to attack the village that created a rift between the Uchiha's and Konoha causing Konoha to become suspicious of them and thus making all the problems arise. The part before that, about Senju & Uchiha merging and Hashirama mistreating the Uchiha was purely a fairy tail made up by Tobi to convinced Sasuke that the Uchiha were screwed by Konoha, yes..?
__________________
|
2012-02-26, 10:58 | Link #63 | |
lost ronin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-02-26, 12:25 | Link #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
it's not a fairy tale. the uchiha and senju made a pact and joined forces to create konoha, but notice how an uchiha was never hokage or one of the top officials in the village. they had no say in konoha's government and their positions were marginalized. they were even forced to the outskirts of the village and given a false title as konoha's police force when they actually held no power and the anbu forces clearly had more control over policing issues. even if the senju meant well they didn't go about their 'partnership' the right way. I can see why the uchiha were disgruntled.
|
2012-02-26, 13:26 | Link #65 | |
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
Quote:
But obviously, the Uchiha weren't privy to the candid issues of Konoha's government once segregation was enacted. That's why it was so important to Sasuke's dad that Itachi to be placed into ANBU since they work directly under the Hokage.
__________________
|
|
2012-02-26, 13:32 | Link #66 | |
Inactive Member
|
I wonder if Kishi is going to put a lot of the blame on Tobirama? It was he and not Hashirama that established the ninja system that we know today. The academies, the chuunin exams, the ANBU, and really the concept of a ninja village. All things that continued the cycle of hate and Naruto has to change. He also created the Konoha police specifically for the Uchiha. Which according to Tobi/Madara/whoever was not a sign of trust, but really so the Uchiha could be kept in place while the clans connected with the Senju rose in power. This really cut off the Uchiha from the rest of the village and eventually played a huge part in the attempted rebellion many years later. Some of what Tobi told Sasuke is going to be the truth.
He also was a great influence on Danzou and the two elders Utatane and Mitokado. All three are militant and supported the Uchiha massacre. While it could be argued that Hiruzen was more with the thinking of Hashirama. And of course he created Edo Tensei. Which no matter how you spin it, is a pretty heinous technique. Why would he dabble in something like that? Quote:
The Hyuuga main house isolate themselves, but don't have the same issues with Konoha as the Uchiha. The other Hyuuga are very much part of the village and have been shown part of numerous Konoha teams. And let's be honest, compared to what we are seeing in this war, the Hyuuga weren't powerful enough anyway. So you can understand why they never rose in position. And the Akimichi mostly take guard roles. Some Uchiha were good enough to be Hokage and hold high positions. But they didn't. That was intentional. Last edited by Ulquiorra; 2012-02-26 at 13:58. |
|
2012-02-26, 14:23 | Link #67 | ||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
Quote:
Quote:
Anyways, the clans do have roles that they are specially suited for and are usually shown serving those roles. However, we haven't seen anything that suggests the Senju specifically keep any clans out of power. Just because Shikaku Nara serves as top advisor, but not considered for Hokage doesn't mean Naras can't become hokage. Until stated otherwise, I believe it was the same with Uchiha. Tobirama was mistrustful of them and not honest about the true purpose of placing them in charge of Konoha's police force but he didn't oppress them. Prior to their segregation, there's not much example of the Uchiha being treated as 2nd-class citizens in any way.
__________________
|
||
2012-02-26, 14:41 | Link #68 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Hokages have to be extremely strong. There haven't been any Nara's, Hyuuga's, Akimichi's, Yamanaka's, etc... who have ever fit that bill. Lord Hyuuga was impressed with Neji as a genin and called him a genius of the clan. That kind of power just isn't going to cut it for hokage. It's not like those clans had possible candidates and were politically driven out by Senju's and their closer clans like Sarutobi. It's just that they didn't have the power. Those clans most likely joined Konoha for the protection that the village could give them and then they mutually benefit by working together in their squads as jounins at best.
The Uchiha on the other hand 'formed' Konoha with the Senju. It was an agreement between the 2 'strongest' ninja clans before the merger into villages. The Uchiha have extremely strong blood like the Senju and have no doubt had several viable candidates for hokage over the generations in terms of strength and intelligence. And they were not only put out of that position by the senju, but also were not even brought on as top advisors in the government. it was clearly a slap in the face and cause for worry among their clan's leaders. |
2012-02-26, 16:28 | Link #69 | |||
Inactive Member
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I meant we have seen Hyuuga on various barrier squads. As well as acting as scouts for other squads. They were integrated into the village. While the Uchiha were mostly kept part of the Konoha police. Even someone as talented as Shisui. It was actually a big deal for Itachi to become an ANBU. His father saw it as a chance for the Uchiha to prove themselves. The way they were treated was a huge part of the planned rebellion. Last edited by Ulquiorra; 2012-02-26 at 16:40. |
|||
2012-02-26, 16:38 | Link #70 |
Tofu Driver
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: On Winding Roads.
Age: 34
|
This argument would be sorted out if we knew where Itachi and Sasuke's parents were the night Naruto was born. It seem all the Uchihas were busy with something while the village was under attack. They didn't attempt to help in anyway either. And they weren't hiding because the kids were out in the open. What could be so damn important when there's a huge disaster happening in the garden and the first thing to do is to leave Uchiha children sightsighting in the porch?
|
2012-02-26, 16:50 | Link #71 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
|
Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that all the Uchiha were at their secret meeting place when the attack occurred, and had no idea what was going on? I was under the impression Tobi had said something like that. If there were any powerful Uchiha in the village at the time of the attack then the kyuubi would've been nullified quite easily. If they were at the meeting place and Tobi had this information it would be the perfect opportunity to attack.
|
2012-02-26, 17:48 | Link #74 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
|
Quote:
The Uchiha couldn't have done anything against the Kyuubi, nobody could ever control it, only Madara. And also Tobi, for still unknown reasons he can do it. The Uchiha didn't know about all this, look at Sasuke's mother, she was chatting with Kushina without any worries, she was simply a happy mother and that's all. But in Sasuke's flashback they are not a happy family any more, everything has changed after that attack. |
|
2012-02-26, 18:08 | Link #75 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
|
Quote:
The sharingan's ability to control the kyuubi should be common knowledge among the senior Uchiha clan members, even if they're not powerful enough to achieve it. Even if they weren't meeting to plot rebellion, they could still be going to their secret location for clan gatherings, to discuss their politics, to pass on the knowledge from the tablets to Uchiha that become adults. |
|
2012-02-26, 19:27 | Link #76 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
|
Quote:
The other thing i remember is that the secret Uchiha shrine was a forgotten and probably forbidden place, since it contained things like killing your best friend and brother in order to obtain more power and that is what the Uchiha stopped doing when they stopped following Madara's bloody rules. My guess is that they began to read those secrets (parts that they were able to read) only after Tobi's attack and when they began to plan a revolt, they needed power to take over a village so it's logical that to obtain such power they would have to do what has to be done. But we need some final flashback here, since both Itachi and his best friend obtained the MS and they surely didn't kill anyone in order to do it. And so did Kakashi too. It's funny that the two Uchiha who could have lead the revolt and taken over the village, since they both had MS, did turn against the clan. |
|
2012-02-26, 19:30 | Link #77 | |||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2012-02-26, 21:20 | Link #78 |
Tofu Driver
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: On Winding Roads.
Age: 34
|
Madara and Tobi has controlled the Kyubi in the past at different times. Meaning the Kyubi has attack Konoha atleast twice now. They are both clearly different people. Since Madara was the only one confirmed to control the Kyubi in the past, Tobi must be using Madara's eyes for his Kyubi-attack on the night of Naruto's birth. The Rinnegan that Tobi gave Nagato should also be Madara's EMS that evolved into the Rinnegan which said he activated moments before he died. I remember when Sasuke first implanted Itachi's eyes he said he can feel itach's chakra flowing into him. There, Tobi has both a pair of Kyubi controlling sharingans and the chakra to go along with it. Or maybe im just reading too much into this. :\
|
2012-02-27, 06:02 | Link #80 | |
Phantom Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
|
Quote:
Judging from Tobi's shairngan space time abilities his sharingan could be a MS or EMS eye and any MS should be able to control Kyubi so he doesn't have to have Madara's eyes. If Tobi has at least MS he can control the Kyubi when its outside of a human body. |
|
Tags |
weekly spoiler discussion |
|
|