F/SN UBW TV - Episode 14 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Sheba

That'd be some crazy shit that would look like straight out of a Touhou game. Until Gil gets bored and pull Ea.

Not really. In the Fate route of the VN she was outright WRECKED by him in a matter of seconds.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Sheba

That'd be some crazy shit that would look like straight out of a Touhou game. Until Gil gets bored and pull Ea.

Well...

Spoiler for Fate route:

Reminder how Caster was defeated in that route:

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Lemon Ice

He was under a Command Spell forbidding him from killing opponent Servants during their first fight.

This was before the War even started and way before Lancer was stolen from his original master though and I don't think Bazette is the type to use a command seal for an order like that. Lancer and Bazette seem like they have pleasant Master/Servant relationship. Unless you-know-who stole Lancer already at this point in time?

Originally Posted by Julio C

Illya was so happy in looking forward to meet Shiro, but no here comes Gil and ruins it for everybody. I really wanted to see Illya team up with Shiro and Rin to take on Caster.

If Caster gains control of Saber, there will be no stopping her from winning. She still has Assasin, and with Archer on her side, it will take someone crazy to her out. If Gil wins this next fight which it's pretty obvious he will, he is going to be the only one capable of taking Caster out. I would very much like to see Gil take on Caster.

Assasssin cannot leave Ryuudo Temple so he is not not part of Caster's team atm so she only has Archer and Kuzuki. Saber is till resisting her but is close to succumbing.

You speak as if you don't know what the events are going to transpire and if so what are you doing here in the veteran's section?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

This was before the War even started and way before Lancer was stolen from his original master though and I don't think Bazette is the type to use a command seal for a for an order like that. Lancer and Bazette seem like they have pleasant Master/Servant relationship. Unless you-know-who stole Lancer already at this point in time?

There's conflicting information that I've found about this. Apparently in F/HA, Bazette said that she and Lancer fought Caster at her base. But others (myself included) distinctly remember Kirei stealing Lancer from her the moment she summoned him.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by GDB

There's conflicting information that I've found about this. Apparently in F/HA, Bazette said that she and Lancer fought Caster at her base. But others (myself included) distinctly remember Kirei stealing Lancer from her the moment she summoned him.

From what I gathered while playing FHA Bazette got killed off before the War even started. It's one of her regrets and the reason the infinite loop was born. She wanted to take part in the war but got "killed" off before she could. She manage to summon Lancer and because she and Kirei use to take part in hunting expeditions of Dead Apostle, went to him to register for the war and probably wanting to see her crush again after all these years (which was disturbing tbh). Big mistake on her part and lost an arm for it.

[hoshino_crimsonwings]

After watching Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya, seeing Lis and Stella dying was very saddening and infuriating.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Well...

Spoiler for Fate route:

Reminder how Caster was defeated in that route:

Didn't Gilgamesh catch Caster off-guard when he took her out in the Fate route?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Didn't Gilgamesh catch Caster off-guard when he took her out in the Fate route?

Well she did her "substitute skill" once but just got wrecked again. Also even Archer was able to beat her when she was at her strongest in the Ryuudo temple in UBW, so Gil wrecking her like that in a place that is not her territory and after her master also died (I think F/HA confirms that Gil killed Assassin and Kuzuki in Fate) and she was probably forced to find a new puppet master temporarily, is not that surprising and I doubt the element of surprise did much, since she was able to survive the initial attack at first.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Didn't Gilgamesh catch Caster off-guard when he took her out in the Fate route?

Yup. Driven mad, after Kuzuki slowly died in front of her, Caster tries to ambush Team Saber. Shirou saves Saber from Rule Breaker, then Gil appears out of nowhere, destroys her little dragon teeth army and skewers her with Gate of Babylon. Twice.

[Nayrael]

The thing about Casters is that they are Servants who are specialized in preparations. Any Servant who catches her off-guard is dangerous for her.

Had she expected or prepared herself for Gil, she may have survived for longer... one or two seconds longer but HEY!

[TwilightsCall]

I don't know, Gil isn't particularly resilient as far as Servants go. I feel with proper preparation, Caster would actually have the upper hand. It would require her to know an awful lot about GoB though, and considering she doesn't even know he exists before she gets brutally murdered by him, I wouldn't expect much from her in that regard.

If she can't even beat Archer in a straight fight though, she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell against Gil.

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

I don't know, Gil isn't particularly resilient as far as Servants go. I feel with proper preparation, Caster would actually have the upper hand. It would require her to know an awful lot about GoB though, and considering she doesn't even know he exists before she gets brutally murdered by him, I wouldn't expect much from her in that regard.

If she can't even beat Archer in a straight fight though, she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell against Gil.

No amount of prep time will help Caster against Gil, the GoB is literal bullshit and it can counter just about anything.

[TwilightsCall]

GoB doesn't do very much if Caster isn't physically there though, and she has shown herself more than capable of acting from a considerable distance without any difficulty at all.

Plus, we are talking about someone who can almost perform sorcery just by waving her hands. We could literally sit here for hours pondering creative ways for her to kill Gil, and she would probably be capable of most of them. What if she made a sort of Depletion Garden-esque bounded field? Teleported him into the sun? Increased gravity's effect on him 100-fold? Dropped him into the center of the Earth?

And that's just the flashy things. Gil has a mortal body, so simple things like, turn the air around him to stone, or magma, or just plain blow him up. Carpet bomb the area. Create a sound wave strong enough to blow his head apart a la Mortal Kombat. There are literally thousands of ways she could kill him without ever being within a mile of him, and even if he has answers to any of the ways she comes up with in GoB, he needs to know he has those answers, and be able to pull them out and use them before Caster makes him go squish.

I feel like a lot of people underestimate Caster since she never did more than act as a midboss, but you have to remember she was a very strong contender for winning the HGW, and if it weren't for Archer shooting her in the back, she probably would have won.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

And that's just the flashy things. Gil has a mortal body, so simple things like, turn the air around him to stone, or magma, or just plain blow him up. Carpet bomb the area. Create a sound wave strong enough to blow his head apart a la Mortal Kombat. There are literally thousands of ways she could kill him without ever being within a mile of him, and even if he has answers to any of the ways she comes up with in GoB, he needs to know he has those answers, and be able to pull them out and use them before Caster makes him go squish.

Uhm... no. Even without his armor, Rin's A-rank jewels could not penetrate Gil's magic defence from his accessory. And when he has his armor on... good luck.

Also if Caster could do all these things why didn't she use it against Archer during their 1on1 fight? Caster would have been killed by Archer's broken phantasm, if Archer had not missed intentionally. Don't even start with "she was not prepared to fight Archer". Didn't she notice the battle between Berserker and Saber+Archer? Then she should have witnessed the broken phantasm as well, i.e. she knew of it beforehand. If she is dumb enough not to make preparations against things she already knows about, then no amount of "additional preparations" are going to help her.

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

GoB doesn't do very much if Caster isn't physically there though, and she has shown herself more than capable of acting from a considerable distance without any difficulty at all.

Plus, we are talking about someone who can almost perform sorcery just by waving her hands. We could literally sit here for hours pondering creative ways for her to kill Gil, and she would probably be capable of most of them. What if she made a sort of Depletion Garden-esque bounded field? Teleported him into the sun? Increased gravity's effect on him 100-fold? Dropped him into the center of the Earth?

And that's just the flashy things. Gil has a mortal body, so simple things like, turn the air around him to stone, or magma, or just plain blow him up. Carpet bomb the area. Create a sound wave strong enough to blow his head apart a la Mortal Kombat. There are literally thousands of ways she could kill him without ever being within a mile of him, and even if he has answers to any of the ways she comes up with in GoB, he needs to know he has those answers, and be able to pull them out and use them before Caster makes him go squish.

I feel like a lot of people underestimate Caster since she never did more than act as a midboss, but you have to remember she was a very strong contender for winning the HGW, and if it weren't for Archer shooting her in the back, she probably would have won.

First of all, don't give Caster powers she clearly does not have. Also, Gil isn't stupid he would know he someone is using magic against him. The defensive armaments in the GoB would defend against any of the methods you thought of. He even has something that could protect against the Multidimensional Refraction Phenomenon (2nd Magic bullshit). Also, Nasu mentioned how Depletion Garden would effect servants, basically it would not effect them.

[Dengar]

If you think Caster can do anything against Gilgamesh you probably don't realise how ridiculousy OP he is. I mean to be fair, no work completely does him justice. While he does not possess any particular skill at wielding most of his weapons (he pretty much has only two he knows how to use properly), if it is a worldly object that has existed at any point, he will either have owned it, or its prototype.

Aside from this, his stats range from above average to excellent. And the very nature of Gate of Babylon gives him a speed advantage on just about anyone. His magic resistance is low, but he has a fairly high Divinity rating to make up for that. Either way, I doubt someone like him is susceptible to any sort of magical charm, due to his nature (and is in fact more likely to be the one to charm Caster).

[Jaden]

If Caster was posing a threat, Gil would probably just pull out some OP anti-magic item from his treasury.

[GDB]

Prototype of Shell + Reflect magic from RPGs.

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by Dengar

If you think Caster can do anything against Gilgamesh you probably don't realise how ridiculousy OP he is. I mean to be fair, no work completely does him justice. While he does not possess any particular skill at wielding most of his weapons (he pretty much has only two he knows how to use properly), if it is a worldly object that has existed at any point, he will either have owned it, or its prototype.

Aside from this, his stats range from above average to excellent. And the very nature of Gate of Babylon gives him a speed advantage on just about anyone. His magic resistance is low, but he has a fairly high Divinity rating to make up for that. Either way, I doubt someone like him is susceptible to any sort of magical charm, due to his nature (and is in fact more likely to be the one to charm Caster).

Fate/Extra CCC did him justice. It completely showed how broken he was.

[TwilightsCall]

Caster can perform magic bordering on sorcery. I'm not giving her powers she doesn't have, you are restricting her beyond what is reasonable.

Caster lost to Archer for the same reason Gil lost to Saber. And Shirou. And Sakura. She was in a position where she could have won, but pissed away her advantage and suffered for it.

You treat Gil like he is some sort of god, but if he is so strong, why did he die in every route? If his stats are so good, why could Shirou not only keep up with him, but drive him into a corner? If he has so much awesome shit in GoB, why didn't it save him from the Grail in UBW? Sakura in HF? The chaff from a fighter jet in Zero?

GoB takes time to use, and thought to use effectively, especially in a defensive manner. Are you going to tell me Shirou can exploit that to win, but one of the most powerful magi in the history of magecraft can't?

I know Gil is strong. I realize he is the strongest Servant, and I explicitly said in any sort of reasonable fight, Caster would have no chance. But if you are trying to tell me in the best case scenario, Caster would have no chance, then you are not just overestimating Gil, you are criminally underestimating Caster.

I mean, seriously...do you think Gil could beat ORT too? Because it sounds like that is the kind of power you are trying to give him.