The anime industry's problem of excessive fanservice

[FireChick]

Ehh? They may not be on the level as say Queen's Blade, but I seriously doubt you can call those shows 'perfectly clean'...

Well, I didn't really mean it in a literal sense. Those shows actually knew, and proved, for a fact that you don't have to have tons and tons of unnecessary nudity or fan service to make a great anime and tell a good story. Well, I could be wrong. Everyone has their opinion.

[Kameruka]

Originally Posted by C.A.

While men are visual creatures, women are actually more audial. The voice actors themselves are more than enough fan service for female audience.

Completely agree with this one. Just put some seiyuu such as Jun Fukuyama with any bishounen characters and some girls will wet their panties. Proof that women are just as horny as men, only in different way. Women actually don't hate porn. They only hate porn that men enjoyed. For example no men would like to read any 'bodice ripper' novels unless they are really, really bookworms.

The only reasons because female-oriented fanservice often get less criticism than male-oriented ones are these: they are less obvious and more ambiguous. They don't like to see some pantyshots and bouncy breasts but they do like topless men with magically shaved chests for example. Sometimes even their voices are enough to make female otakus go crazy for them.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by FireChick

Well, I didn't really mean it in a literal sense. Those shows actually knew, and proved, for a fact that you don't have to have tons and tons of unnecessary nudity or fan service to make a great anime and tell a good story. Well, I could be wrong. Everyone has their opinion.

But at same time the show that you listed, Madoka, Anohana are all anime original were not proven commodity. Stein Gate however debuted as a well-known game and the adaption actually caused quite a debate among fans on whether the anime is decent port or not..

On the other hand, many of the fan-service anime are based on "Known commodity that are already selling in the its original format, so any altering is just destroying the source material....

[Ithekro]

I would point the differences in style of fan service between Gonzo's Full Metal Panic and Kyoto's Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu. Gonzo went with the panty shots and such seemingly random fan service. Kyoto went with sticking almost all of it into location specific locations (hot springs trip), and pretty much all the major fan service in one episode.

That or they made the fan service part of the plot (everyone's clothing desintigrating due to a biological weapon for instance), or part of the comedy (the accidental boob grab with associated beating afterwards).

I don't think they ever went for any panty shots.

[Transitions]

autocitare me in this post:

Originally Posted by Otaku LOL

fingers full of wisdom, xD so true, Japan now produces more lusty thumbed Echhi that is bought by Japanese adults aged 33 have not started sexual activity devoted to professional advancement.
.

iI think it is far from what is currently happening with this note related

An anime fan alleging that the anime industry has degenerated into nothing but a porn industry has provoked an interesting discussion of the post-moe-boom anime market.

since the eigthes has existed in the Anime, ecchi and other hot genres. this is not new.

Spoiler for call me to night:

I think Strike Witches encapsulates the current state of the industry. We don’t really need moe, animal ears and pantsu all over the place, but without it they won’t sell

BINGO!! i don't understand the script of this anime, I consider it a other than lolicon.

“But K-ON! and Angel Beats! never even showed any pantsu – makers who say ero is needed to sell are just making excuses.”

K-On is considered an anime for girls, I do not need it ¬¬

Angel beats is another anime like Suzumiya Haruhi but with better story and action.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I would point the differences in style of fan service between Gonzo's Full Metal Panic and Kyoto's Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu. Gonzo went with the panty shots and such seemingly random fan service. Kyoto went with sticking almost all of it into location specific locations (hot springs trip), and pretty much all the major fan service in one episode.

That or they made the fan service part of the plot (everyone's clothing desintigrating due to a biological weapon for instance), or part of the comedy (the accidental boob grab with associated beating afterwards).

I don't think they ever went for any panty shots.

And I would counter that FMP are adapted from the Light Novel original and most if not all those scenes were part of the original novel.

Fan service isn't the problem it's been there before. The issue is that people's misconception that anime are all made with original material when in reality there is probably only 1-2 series a season that was completely new and the rest are all some sort of adaption. That couples with the fact that most of the so call western anime fans only got exposed with what little anime they seen since late 90s and never seen other type of anime (late night varieties and shojos) than what was being ported at time. (ie. action adventure).

It also doesn't help that most western fan think all anime are broadcast in day time when most of anime timeslot increase since 2000s' are late nights slots and air as late as 3 A.M. Which means most anime don't have as much budget as most think and are made by expanding the source material from shounen to seinen to LN.

At same time the day time anime slots are been taken over by increasing numbers of JUMP titles instead of original materials. This is mainly due to the Big 3 of OP, Naruto and Bleach. In the 80s or 90s, you never seen a JUMP title run for more than 2-4 years before it been taken over by new JUMP series, and you never seem more than 2 or 3 JUMP series at same time with DB been the only exception as the only long-running adaption. Now there's like 5-6 JUMP series running at same time and that's not counting other Shonen title like Detective Conan.

Originally Posted by Otaku LOL

K-On is considered an anime for girls, I do not need it ¬¬

Angel beats is another anime like Suzumiya Haruhi but with more story and action.

K-On is a 4-komi Seinen title designed for bussiness/working men.

That being said, 4-komi are selling based on it's gag comedy and cute characters and it is also helped by the vast world of what we call as H-Dojinshi market.

As for Angel Beat, it is one of those few original properties and while it was a success, one would argue that Strike Witches is the more overall successful multimedia franchise between the two.

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by Otaku LOL

K-On is considered an anime for girls

Heh heh... no.

[Zenemis]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

I'd still take the excessive fanservice over shows like californication, real housewives, the 8 o'clock news, Keeping Up with the Kardashians and any other 'real life' or imagineative soap/gameshow, Oprah, Dr Phil and all that crud

Those shows are honestly the equivalent of moe-heavy anime/manga.

It's a safety net - even if the product itself isn't that good, there's a belief that it'll prevent a product from completely bombing.

There's always stars every now and then - the West has shows like Breaking Bad and Community that completely eclipse the mass-produced filth, just as the anime industry has it's own.

[Dhomochevsky]

I still don't see the industry's problem that was mentioned in the title.
So now you all agree there are titles that focus on fan service. Fine, but why is that a bad thing?
Also Sankaku is the fanservice equivalence of a news site. Nothing wrong with that either, I read it daily.
As in this case, they like to display the ramblings of some otaku and present it as news, but you should know better than taking it serious. It is an entertaining read and then you can make fun of it with a snarky comment. That's all there is to it.

[CrowKenobi]

Well, the original title was The anime industry of nowadays is now a porn industry which a few people found to be... disingenuous.

[Nightbat®]

But current 'fanservice' cannot be stated as a problem since apparently not everyone percieves it as such

Again a more honest question for this topic would be "Is there too much fanservice in anime??"

[Transitions]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

K-On is a 4-komi Seinen title designed for bussiness/working men.

That being said, 4-komi are selling based on it's gag comedy and cute characters and it is also helped by the vast world of what we call as H-Dojinshi market.

thanks for the info. needed this update.

Originally Posted by Goggen

Heh heh... no.

xD, Please do not make me get the Troll in me,

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by Otaku LOL

xD, Please do not make me get the Troll in me,

Just stating the facts, man.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Otaku LOL

K-On is considered an anime for girls, I do not need it ¬¬

Well.. you'd simply be utterly and factually wrong -- shounen series from a shounen 4-koma comic. It happens to *also* be popular with girls but you should take a look at the live concerts for K-On. About 80% men (though there were a smattering of women in the audience).

[Random32]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Well.. you'd simply be utterly and factually wrong -- shounen series from a shounen 4-koma comic. It happens to *also* be popular with girls but you should take a look at the live concerts for K-On. About 80% men (though there were a smattering of women in the audience).

K-On a seinen series from a seinen 4koma. Its from a seinen magazine according to Wikipedia and last time I checked it aired rather late at night. Though OtakuLOL is sort of right since K-On has a significantly larger than average "mainstream" following. Its the closest to mainstream a late night anime has been in a long time imho.

L☆S was a shounen 4koma animated by KyoAni though.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Random32

K-On a seinen series from a seinen 4koma. Its from a seinen magazine according to Wikipedia and last time I checked it aired rather late at night.

L☆S was a shounen 4koma animated by KyoAni though.

Sorry, you're right.. but even better (I should type slower), the base point being he was confused about who watched the series or what audience it was initially targeted at (though it has gone wide-spectrum in popularity).

[Undertaker]

And I'm still saying that it has more to do with source material than anything.

The issue here is that since late 90s, The first anime boom caused a increase in Anime time slot that essentially started to replace OVA series. Because of that, studio started to dip into Seinen and Josei front as source. This brings us titles like Monster, Gokusen, Bartender, etc. However none of them had much commercial impact. On the other hand, live action adaption of Gokusen, Dragon Sakura and other Seinen/Josei adaption gain huge success and also helped boost the sale of source material. As result the Seinen/Josei adaption that have real-live theme (or at least semi-real-live) started to shift toward live action drama. Series like Iryu, Kami no Shuzuku, Bloody Monday, Liar Games, Hotaru no Hikari etc would all likely be animated in early 2000 but are now dramas instead..

This was caused by seinen series like Monster, Bartender, Gokusen all failed commercially despite the acclaims while the drama adaption was gathering results. It also helps in Josei front, with Hataraki Man

On the other hand, the void those series created got filled with 4-koma and LN which many ends up as being either better than original (4-Koma) or commercially successful (LN) or both.


My issue with Anime industry isn't fan-service, it has always been there and always will be.

My main concern is that it seems that at this point the industry is starting to run out of series to adapt. If you look at next years' adaption, they are really dipping into some average, niche series that even fans of respective media might not have heard of. As much as I like Mysterious Girlfriend X, it was a shock for be to see it being slotted for animation and we are starting to see LN with only 4-5 books to get animated when is was usually 7-10 books before, same thing with manga. It also doesn't help that the industry has now shy away from more than 1-cour commitment. Days of 5-10 books series (for example, Full Moon wa Sagashite) nets you 4-cour were gone. I mean even Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood got only 5-cour out of 25 volumes when and extra cour would fix some of the pace issue it had. And as it is, we now see more and more manga/LN adaption that would have benefit with an extra cour, either for pacing or closure issues.

Just look at the anime for past year or two. The biggest issue wasn't so much as the adaption itself but the lack of length (pacing) and endings.

Some series simply needs an extra cour to give a proper closure. When those series got cut short and cause stories to alter, it also killed off any potential sequels or risk inconsistency that hurts the sequel.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

But current 'fanservice' cannot be stated as a problem since apparently not everyone percieves it as such

Once we're addicted, we cannot perceive it as a problem until somebody tells us it does.

My concern is the teasers.... but I love the teasers.... but not the yuri scenes as side dish...

[MisaoFan]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

As result the Seinen/Josei adaption that have real-live theme (or at least semi-real-live) started to shift toward live action drama. Series like Iryu, Kami no Shuzuku, Bloody Monday, Liar Games, Hotaru no Hikari etc would all likely be animated in early 2000 but are now dramas instead..

This was caused by seinen series like Monster, Bartender, Gokusen all failed commercially despite the acclaims while the drama adaption was gathering results. It also helps in Josei front, with Hataraki Man

Bloody Monday was one of few shounen manga that are shifted into TV drama while Hataraki Man was actually a seinen serialized in Morning (according to Wikipedia) and Gokusen was a josei series.

As well most 4-koma manga-based anime are seinen while most LN-based anime are shounen, so they have an increase on shonen anime (even for harem series like To Love-Ru and the majority of shounen LN) more than shoujo, seinen (4-koma and moe seinen titles excluded) and josei anime.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by genjichan

Once we're addicted, we cannot perceive it as a problem until somebody tells us it does.

Addiction to fanservice? That's a stretch


I would sooner believe being 'desensitized'
When the meatproducts are getting thrown around like they're coming from the Horn of Plenty
its impact diminishes severely



Now if every series starts off as a run of the mill [insert genre] but it ends up as a "Pantsu and shower fest" I could see it being a problem

But really, don't tell me you guys didn't know what a show like QB or IT was about before you started watching it

It's like blaming a porn movie that there's sex in it and no quality drama or acting skills