[Anime-only] Naruto Shippuden Episode 214 Discussion

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by yogotah

Kakashi has suffered losses, and his background was sad but his tragedies are still pretty minimal when you compared them to sasuke. We can't really speak on Kakashi because of the limited information we know about him. His dad committed suicide by his own choice, Sakumo wasn't killed by someone Kakashi idolized. Kakashi did suffered, don't get me wrong, but the level of intensity is incomparable in my opinion.


Just like Sasuke said, it is because he knew of the love that losing it is painful. Since Naruto never experienced unconditional love as a child, how is he going to understand what it means to lose it? He can't, and that's why he could never actually understand what Sasuke was going through.


Gaara is a stronger case, since he was also enveloped in darkness. The problem is that he never had ANYONE love him, everyone hated him, his own father tried to kill him, again he never experienced true love so he can't understand how losing it could affect him. Gaara just adapted to the environment he was put under, his situation was sad but is more similar to Naruto who also didn't have anyone.

Sasuke lost EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY, not a father, not a brother, but his whole clan. His whole existence was wiped away in a moment. Sasuke is lost but everything is justified when you look as his circumstances in a substantial manner.

His pain and anger are justified. His plan to murder everyone in Konoha is not. Not in my morality. I won't rule out redemption for people (in general), but Sasuke's plan is not an ok one to act upon.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by toxicstar

If one can see past the graphics and focus on the author's intentions it appears that the author is trying very hard to keep Sasuke from actually intentionally killing anyone who is not bad. Get it?

That maybe the case. Though I'd fully agree with that point if you omitted the word "intentionally". Because he intentionally used Karin as a pawn when the opportunity presented itself. And he intentionally didn't care how badly she'd get hurt in the process.

This is so that Sasuke has a fresh record to turn back to when he rights himself since he has never dirtied himself with innocent blood just yet. Because the moment he does then there are no more excuses for him even if he turns good again.

Just because luck and circumstance may have prevented his actions from officially pushing him over that line, doesn't mean he should be let off the hook so easily when the time comes.
Many would argue that the act of trying to kill someone is just as bad as actually going through with it. And that's where Sasuke's at now. He used Karin as a pawn without any regret or remorse just to defeat his enemy. And then to make matters worse, he didn't even try to man-up by putting her out of her misery himself--instead he ordered his fatally wounded comrades execution by Sakura's hand.

Case in point, regardless of whether Karin ultimately lived or died, Sasuke's officially proven to be no better than a heartless murderer. So it would be a shame IMO, if he ended up with a clean slate and clear conscience after all was said and done. He'll have to really earn that if Kishi wants to sell that outcome to me.

In a perfect world, I'd have Sasuke start his path to redemption by becoming the shinobi equivalent to a potato. Let Naruto massacre his entire chakra circulatory system (via Kinjutsu version of Rasenshuriken) so he can't ever use a single jutsu again for life. From that point, he could start learning some humility again. Honestly, I'll be the first to admit I don't like Sasuke. But at the same time, I don't want him to die. Because that would be letting him off way to easy.

[Hunter]

Gaara used to be this insane sociopath who went into Rock Lee's hospital room to murder him in his sleep just because he felt like it. Nagato was a crazy baby killer hellbent on apocalypse and convinced he was some kind of god.
See where I'm coming with this? All Sasuke has to do is repent and convert to Narutism.

[Fran~]

I would pay to see Sasuke converted to HARUHISM

Now... what are Sasuke big crimes?... defeating Orochimaru and Deidara, failing in capture Killer Bee, having a brawl against some Kages, killing Danzou, almost killing Karin?

If Sasuke in some way helps in the war against Madara, he would be forgiven.

Right now Sasuke is nothing but big talk, if you think about it, he didn't kill Danzou, he chose self-destruction (same Deidara), Kishi is protecting Sasuke's hands, his hands are clean. Kishi even protected him of killing Sakura TWICE in an episode, that's a world record

[toxicstar]

Originally Posted by sayde

Just because luck and circumstance may have prevented his actions from officially pushing him over that line, doesn't mean he should be let off the hook so easily when the time comes.
Many would argue that the act of trying to kill someone is just as bad as actually going through with it. And that's where Sasuke's at now. He used Karin as a pawn without any regret or remorse just to defeat his enemy. And then to make matters worse, he didn't even try to man-up by putting her out of her misery himself--instead he ordered his fatally wounded comrades execution by Sakura's hand.
.

But I can't help but see that every time something detrimental is about to happen Sasuke does something that can tip the scale. For example, when Karin was captured by Danzo, Sasuke shouted at her to "Stay still!" Could it be that he was aiming for Danzo's vital organ and making it so that he can just barely miss Karin's?

Also, his attempted assassination of Sakura is totally debatable. The flashback of the time Sasuke was leaving shows him going behind Sakura and knocking her out so he can leave without her pursuit. And this time, again he goes behind Sakura to launch an attack. Sakura can easily be taken out, so why didn't Sasuke just face her head on?

Then his second attempt at her life seemed unjustified. If the cut he made was supposed to have killer intentions, why is it that Naruto only scraped by with a small cut on his face? Shouldn't the cut be more like a slash or something much deeper?

I may be trying too hard here, but I was just thinking maybe Sasuke is going down the same self-destructive path as Itachi did?!

Hopefully, everything will be cleared up once the battle is over. I can't see Sasuke winning against Kakashi, Sakura and especially Naruto in his current state. Madara is probably going to pop out soon and they can finally wrap it all up in an epic finale.

[HasuMasu]

Everything went according to Itachi's plan.

cue light yagami jokes

Then his second attempt at her life seemed unjustified. If the cut he made was supposed to have killer intentions, why is it that Naruto only scraped by with a small cut on his face? Shouldn't the cut be more like a slash or something much deeper?

first of all, sakura was stationary, naruto was high speed goku style, no way it would've been the same

I want Sasuke to kill them all. Naruto, Kakashi, Sakura, etc...the whole village. Hatred is a powerful weapon, hatred is stronger than love. Sasuke lost ALL his bonds, his mother that loved him very much, his father that was a good strict father, and brother that cherished him. He lost of all that, and now imagine going back to a normal life, after all these tragedies have happened. Impossible, Sasuke has gone off the hinge, but he isn't the one to blame. Sasuke is just following the strongest force in the world, hatred. And if the show is as realistic as I want it to be, Hatred will become the victor of the battle.

i'm sorry but are we watching the same show? how the hell did you come to "i want sasuke to kill everyone"?

right now the biggest picture you could paint with this show is world peace

hatred has no place in peace

are you some evil, war, and hatred worshiper?

watch gundam seed and learn something boy

[sayde]

Originally Posted by toxicstar

But I can't help but see that every time something detrimental is about to happen Sasuke does something that can tip the scale. For example, when Karin was captured by Danzo, Sasuke shouted at her to "Stay still!" Could it be that he was aiming for Danzo's vital organ and making it so that he can just barely miss Karin's?

Assuming that is the case, any good intentions he may have had from that one single line were all for naught the moment he openly declared Karin to be disposable on top of requesting Sakura to finish her off.

Originally Posted by toxicstar

Also, his attempted assassination of Sakura is totally debatable. The flashback of the time Sasuke was leaving shows him going behind Sakura and knocking her out so he can leave without her pursuit. And this time, again he goes behind Sakura to launch an attack. Sakura can easily be taken out, so why didn't Sasuke just face her head on?

1.) Sakura may be an easy target for Sasuke, but as an expert shinobi, he's still not reckless enough to choose a direct frontal assault over a surprise backstabbing from behind given the opportunity. Besides, that chidori was coming straight for her head. It's not even like it was aimed for the rest of her body where there's plenty of room to miss a vital spot.

2.) If he didn't have any intentions of killing her, why even use chidori in the first place? Why not knock her out with a punch like he did before? And why would Karin try to plead to Sasuke to stop? Afterall, her sensory abilities allow her to read emotions and tell if people are lying. So if she was telling Sasuke to stop, it's because she felt Sasuke had every intention of putting his hand through Sakura's head. And Karin knew that would be the point of no return for him. Finally, as Kakashi put it, "he really meant to kill her". That's basically Kishi telling us, "yes...this is how far Sasuke has fallen. I just don't want Sakura to die because of it".

Originally Posted by toxicstar

Then his second attempt at her life seemed unjustified. If the cut he made was supposed to have killer intentions, why is it that Naruto only scraped by with a small cut on his face? Shouldn't the cut be more like a slash or something much deeper?

I may be trying too hard here,

Yeah. I agree. But, I won't fault you for doing so. The lengths you're willing to go through and the things you're trying to defend for Sasuke's sake is actually quite impressive. lol
I also don't fault Sasuke for trying to kill Sakura or Kakashi. (especially Sakura.) lol. Afterall, it's not like Sakura didn't go there with the same intentions (even though she got cold feet twice). And I can't say for sure if Kakashi would've let Sasuke go without a fight. So the only way both of them were definitely not going to fight Sasuke was if Sasuke suddenly had a change of heart. And while I suppose I could fault Sasuke for feeling the way he does and for not taking Kakashi up on his offer to abandon revenge, that clearly leads to it's own seperate debate/issue--the likes of which I'd rather not participate in. Besides, it's also laughably unrealistic and ridiculous to expect Sasuke to change his ways just because Kakashi asked him to. So setting that aside, all I can really say is that the things he did to Karin are the only things he's done that are completely unjustifiable & very hard for me to defend IMO.

[Casshern]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Sasuke is that kind of people who always blame the world for their troubles.

You make alot of good points Fran, but in this case it kinda was the world who caused all his trouble It's not like Sasuke murdered his own family and then said "oh no, my family is dead".

Anyway, in the end the hatred that Sasuke lives by now is the same hatred that killed his family, it's the same hatred that robbed Nagato of his loved ones, the same hatred that Naruto is trying to cure. That's why Sasuke is the perfect ultimate obstacle for Naruto.

[toxicstar]

Originally Posted by sayde

Assuming that is the case, any good intentions he may have had from that one single line were all for naught the moment he openly declared Karin to be disposable on top of requesting Sakura to finish her off.

I find my myself agreeing with so many your points; it's just so easy to see Sasuke as the bad guy. He's practically asking to be hated. I mean even the laugh he gave in the beginning of the episode gave me the chills.

Basically everything you said is justifiable, the only defense I have for this particular comment you mentioned about Karin is that I'm thinking Sasuke knew Sakura didn't have the heart to kill a random person so that's why he made that demand.

But other than that there's not much going for Sasuke in terms of him being a good guy I'm just trying to figure out the author's intent for Sasuke, but it's not like the author is going to reveal anything he doesn't want viewers to figure out so guess I can only wait and see.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by toxicstar

Basically everything you said is justifiable, the only defense I have for this particular comment you mentioned about Karin is that I'm thinking Sasuke knew Sakura didn't have the heart to kill a random person so that's why he made that demand.

Point taken. Good chat.

[Takashipl]

Does anyone else think Sakura looked a bit strange here:

Spoiler for like a guy:

But I can't help but see that every time something detrimental is about to happen Sasuke does something that can tip the scale. For example, when Karin was captured by Danzo, Sasuke shouted at her to "Stay still!" Could it be that he was aiming for Danzo's vital organ and making it so that he can just barely miss Karin's?

Then why didn't he shot at Danzo's head? That would be instant kill...

[Sage6pathz]

I think this episode was great. People are saying ahh why did naruto have to save the day? Because hes a beast thats why. You have to admit although it went into lame back story that we've seen a million times before the look on naruto's face when sasuke tried to cut sakura was priceless. You know some shits gonna go down now. Also for those saying sasuke is blind my guess is madara will suck him in to rest or something and he will get his eyes back. Still not sure on this however.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Takashipl

Does anyone else think Sakura looked a bit strange here

Her logical self wanted to kill Sasuke but her emotional self didn't, so an inner struggle that makes her show strange faces

[yogotah]

Originally Posted by Da_Box

i'm sorry but are we watching the same show? how the hell did you come to "i want sasuke to kill everyone"?

right now the biggest picture you could paint with this show is world peace

hatred has no place in peace

are you some evil, war, and hatred worshiper?

watch gundam seed and learn something boy

Sorry. I got a little bit carried away, I do that sometimes. My favorite character happens to be Sasuke so that may have clouded my judgement. My opinions, still stands, however, if Naruto is going to change sasuke and change this hatred cycle that the ninja world is experiencing, he's going to have to pull a miraculous stunt.
I look forward to seeing what Naruto has up his sleeves.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Casshern

You make alot of good points Fran,

thanks

but in this case it kinda was the world who caused all his trouble It's not like Sasuke murdered his own family and then said "oh no, my family is dead".

The world didn't cause anything. This was a political situation where the leaders of a village saw a very dangerous situation who involved their eternal and formidable enemies. This was a situation who escaped to any diplomacy, even Sarutobi agreed with that, don't forget that Itachi was convinced that a civil war would be a mutual destruction.

As always happen, the world, don't know even today that event.

Sasuke's first and only revenge was against Itachi because he was who killed Uchiha's, he didn't investigate what motivations Itachi had.

Anyway, in the end the hatred that Sasuke lives by now is the same hatred that killed his family, it's the same hatred that robbed Nagato of his loved ones, the same hatred that Naruto is trying to cure. That's why Sasuke is the perfect ultimate obstacle for Naruto.

Yes, there you have the black and the white, light and darkness. But Sasuke's path to darkness is shared by a lot of people who accepted the burden and moved on.

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by yogotah

Sorry. I got a little bit carried away, I do that sometimes. My favorite character happens to be Sasuke so that may have clouded my judgement. My opinions, still stands, however, if Naruto is going to change sasuke and change this hatred cycle that the ninja world is experiencing, he's going to have to pull a miraculous stunt.
I look forward to seeing what Naruto has up his sleeves.

no doubt he'd have to pull something miraculous, manga shows and the anime will get there "eventually"

to be honest i kinda think of madara as the "big obstacle" well, maybe not the "big" obstacle, but certainly the "last" one

who knows, maybe naruto dies and sasuke changes then, though that would be kinda lame

Does anyone else think Sakura looked a bit strange here

i swear that could be madara's face

[iBeast]

Lmao Sasuke didn't know what the fuck happened when Naruto appeared. Signs of the Yellow Flash there...

[Takashipl]

Originally Posted by iBeast

Lmao Sasuke didn't know what the fuck happened when Naruto appeared. Signs of the Yellow Flash there...

It looked more like a Sage Mode speed, which brings up a question - why isn't Naruto in Sage Mode? He was in it when he was running towards the battle scene, and he knows Sasuke is strong, so he should prepare 2 clones and let them meditate in forest like he did when fighting Pain...

[Pwnago]

Lol.. Pretty good episode, considering there were so many flash backs! But it is going to be a good fight next episode. Though will Naruto go easy on Sasuke, since his half blind lmao!

[Kazuma77]

I think it could have already been a good flight episode but unfortunately Sasuke got weak from his last fight so I was kinda disappointed .... I wonder if Sasuke will manage to recover and we could see a very good fight in the next episode! Can't wait!!

I think that Sasuke is too much in darkness and hatred toward Hidden Leaf since he found out that the truth behind his family massacre ... simple talk wont do it...