[Manga] Chapter 242 Discussion

[Animizzle]

Originally Posted by raikage

Naruto is born around 12-13 YBS - which, as we all know, is when the Yondaime dies. I would guess that Orochimaru left the village around 17-15 YBS.

I'd have to go with Raikage on this one. During the time Sandaime found Orochimaru out, his hair was still black -He did have the four verticle lines under his eyes, as any viewer who took the time must have noticed the lines under Sandaime's eye stand in corrolation with his age- Indicating that he was pretty aged, but not that old.

Now that im done saying that I see that I have no concrete point at all. Except that my hunch is it took Sandaime more then 10 years to grow grey hair. Partly because he was all geared up in his Hokage suit, meaning he was still the active Hokage probably before he replaced the dead 4th again. and partly because the little gnome who lives under my pillow told me so.

On a side note, I'v been trying to figure out Sandaime's exact lines-under-eye age formula but we seem to lack in material. Since the 3rd is dead we might be a bit short on flashbacks, so we'll probably never know.

[Animizzle]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It's however like a ninja signature stance ^^
You call them and poof they come out of nowhere (but usually from the fake ceiling these little cheaters) in this stance.

Sorry about the consecutive post, but this concerns something else,

I see where we misunderstood. I was talking about the nin in the lower right corner who puts his fist against the rock. Ofcourse the fist on the floor in crouched position is the common ninja stance, -I was doubting myself for not knowing, like wtf is Hunter talking about?-

Anyway, this guy most likely -as I said before- slams his fist to show his planned "ass kicking" or it's the remnant of the Jutsu they performed. Only just now I realized they actually summoned those rocks out of the ground. It's like Jiroubu's Jutsu only on a grand scale.

It would surprise me if that common goon performed such a level Doton, so it was probably a combined Jutsu. Or there is a extremely strong rock-nin about...

[Hunter]

Oh okey then

[Isis&Osiris]

Go Yodaman.. err I mean the golden flash.

[Juggiman]

I notice something after reading over chapters of the manga. There are a heck of a lot of legendary nins & bloodlines in the leaf village. Would it be safe to say (from what we know so far) that they are the greatest village & Also I know this is probably posted already but is the leaf the only village in Fire Country.

[UserName]

Originally Posted by Juggiman

I notice something after reading over chapters of the manga. There are a heck of a lot of legendary nins & bloodlines in the leaf village. Would it be safe to say (from what we know so far) that they are the greatest village & Also I know this is probably posted already but is the leaf the only village in Fire Country.

Other villages have thier bloodlines and legends too... Well bloodline wise, it seems the best always come from a non-leaf village. Was Kimi's clan from the Wave Country? I know Haku's clan was and thier bloodlines was quite powerful, too powerful if anything.

[aFlipGuy]

Originally Posted by Animizzle

I'd have to go with Raikage on this one. During the time Sandaime found Orochimaru out, his hair was still black -He did have the four verticle lines under his eyes, as any viewer who took the time must have noticed the lines under Sandaime's eye stand in corrolation with his age- Indicating that he was pretty aged, but not that old.

Now that im done saying that I see that I have no concrete point at all. Except that my hunch is it took Sandaime more then 10 years to grow grey hair. Partly because he was all geared up in his Hokage suit, meaning he was still the active Hokage probably before he replaced the dead 4th again. and partly because the little gnome who lives under my pillow told me so.

On a side note, I'v been trying to figure out Sandaime's exact lines-under-eye age formula but we seem to lack in material. Since the 3rd is dead we might be a bit short on flashbacks, so we'll probably never know.

i thought oro left before the kyuubi, and the reason why he didnt recognized naruto when they met during the chuunin. and also

Spoiler:

that doesnt sound like oro left after the kyuubi, more like rite after the 4th was chosen


editeded: i thought haku was from the water or ice country. kimimiro's clan reminded me of the saiyans ^____^"

[socomberetta]

Originally Posted by Juggiman

I notice something after reading over chapters of the manga. There are a heck of a lot of legendary nins & bloodlines in the leaf village. Would it be safe to say (from what we know so far) that they are the greatest village & Also I know this is probably posted already but is the leaf the only village in Fire Country.

Well, the Hokage was supposedly the strongest of all the Kages, they have two clans with amazing bloodline abilities, and they managed to hold off the combined forces of the Sound and Sand Villages, so Im going with the opinion that the Leaf is the greatest Hidden Village. Also, I think I remember reading one of the characters saying so.

I think the Sound Village may be somewhere in the Fire Country.

[Lackadaisical]

Originally Posted by socomberetta

Well, the Hokage was supposedly the strongest of all the Kages, they have two clans with amazing bloodline abilities, and they managed to hold off the combined forces of the Sound and Sand Villages, so Im going with the opinion that the Leaf is the greatest Hidden Village. Also, I think I remember reading one of the characters saying so.

I think the Sound Village may be somewhere in the Fire Country.

The Sound Village is located in a small country adjacent to the Fire Country. Kabuto's ninja village map shows the country locations at the beginning of the first test of the Chuunin Exam.

And no impartial character has ever said anything to suggest the Leaf is, before Orochimaru's attack, the strongest village. In all honesty though, the Leaf is almost certainly, simply because the village is the home of the main character, the strongest of the ninja villages.

The Sand village, as mentioned, has been weakening for a while because of the ruler's actions. The Sound is full of runaways and outcasts. They are people like the Sound Four, who had to accept the curse seal to gain power because they couldn't gain such power on their own.

So there is no reason to suggest defeating the Sand and Sound at once implies the Leaf is strongest village.

The Cloud village, despite having a leader who got aced easily by Neji's uncle, is likely on par with the Leaf. This stands to reason because the Hokage apparently thought sending a single innocent ninja to his death was more acceptable then restarting the war.

The Mist village, despite having no direct connection to the story, has fielded three skilled ninjas over the course of 242 chapters. The Sound had Orochimaru and Kabuto. The Sand had Baki and Gaara. The fact that, before we even see the village proper, we have already seen more high level ninjas from the Mist than either the Sand or Sound have shown, suggests they are highly likely to be extremely dangerous.

Then, of course, there is the Stone village. The fifth of the five Kage villages and the one with, so far, the least effect on the plot.

[odoriman]

Despite the Kakashi timeline and fact that Orochimaru never met sharingan Kakashi, I still think Obito will die and Kakashi will get the sharigan eye in the gaiden. The story so far is too well setup for it not to happen. It will probably make a small plot hole but...

I think Obito will get his 3 dots within the next two chapters. Before that, I think it's clear that the stone nin is going to take Rin hostage and demand Obito and Kakashi fight to the death (just like Kakashi did the same to Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke way back). Maybe the 3 dots come from fighting your best friend because Sasuke got his 3 dots that way. And the mange sharigan is awakened when you kill your best friend.

As for the question as how Obito gives the eye, I think he will do it with Rin's medical kit that she gave Kakashi. (It's simple enough that he could use it himself, remeber?) I think Obito will beat Kakashi into unconciousness, maybe Rin will be killed by the stone nin (maybe knocked unconcious to save that precious information) and Obito gets mortally wounded in a fight with the stone nin. Then, of course, the eye will be his gift for Kakashi's promotion, so Obito will use the kit to transplant the eye.

[Animizzle]

Originally Posted by aFlipGuy

i thought oro left before the kyuubi, and the reason why he didnt recognized naruto when they met during the chuunin. and also

Spoiler:

that doesnt sound like oro left after the kyuubi, more like rite after the 4th was chosen

Well since Ibiki is 27, being a kid probably means when he was a young shinobi-otherwise he would't have seen Orochimaru that often-. Means age 8-10, which proves Raikage's guess al the more correct.

[socomberetta]

Originally Posted by Lackadaisical

The Sand village, as mentioned, has been weakening for a while because of the ruler's actions. The Sound is full of runaways and outcasts. They are people like the Sound Four, who had to accept the curse seal to gain power because they couldn't gain such power on their own.

So there is no reason to suggest defeating the Sand and Sound at once implies the Leaf is strongest village.

The Cloud village, despite having a leader who got aced easily by Neji's uncle, is likely on par with the Leaf. This stands to reason because the Hokage apparently thought sending a single innocent ninja to his death was more acceptable then restarting the war.

The Mist village, despite having no direct connection to the story, has fielded three skilled ninjas over the course of 242 chapters. The Sound had Orochimaru and Kabuto. The Sand had Baki and Gaara. The fact that, before we even see the village proper, we have already seen more high level ninjas from the Mist than either the Sand or Sound have shown, suggests they are highly likely to be extremely dangerous.

I based my opinion on what we've seen in the manga, and that is, Konoha as a whole, defeating two hidden villages. No other village can say the same.

Juggiman wanted to know if it was safe to say that the Leaf is the strongest village based on given information, and based on what Ive seen in the manga, they are.

You say the Mist has shown 3 ninjas of skill, well, how does that go to show that that Village as a whole is stronger than the Leaf when we havent seen what the Mist's entire forces are capable of?

The same goes for the Cloud, Stone, and Grass Villages. Until I see evidence that either village's combined forces are on par with or stronger than the Leaf, Im going to assume the Leaf is the strongest.

And about the situation with the Hyuuga and the Cloud:
You interpret the Third's decision to mean that the Cloud is equal in power to the Leaf, and that's fine, but I dont see it that way.

The Third is a wise leader, and obviously cares about the citizens under his care. So, given the choices of giving up one life to spare misery and death for the non-military citizens of Konoha by starting a war with the Cloud, I could understand why he would allow Hizashi to give up his life. I dont see anything in his decision that suggests the Cloud is stronger or equal to the Leaf.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by socomberetta

I based my opinion on what we've seen in the manga, and that is, Konoha as a whole, defeating two hidden villages. No other village can say the same.

Juggiman wanted to know if it was safe to say that the Leaf is the strongest village based on given information, and based on what Ive seen in the manga, they are.

You say the Mist has shown 3 ninjas of skill, well, how does that go to show that that Village as a whole is stronger than the Leaf when we havent seen what the Mist's entire forces are capable of?

The same goes for the Cloud, Stone, and Grass Villages. Until I see evidence that either village's combined forces are on par with or stronger than the Leaf, Im going to assume the Leaf is the strongest.

And about the situation with the Hyuuga and the Cloud:
You interpret the Third's decision to mean that the Cloud is equal in power to the Leaf, and that's fine, but I dont see it that way.

The Third is a wise leader, and obviously cares about the citizens under his care. So, given the choices of giving up one life to spare misery and death for the non-military citizens of Konoha by starting a war with the Cloud, I could understand why he would allow Hizashi to give up his life. I dont see anything in his decision that suggests the Cloud is stronger or equal to the Leaf.

I agree. It's obvious the Leaf are the strongest. The hokage is the best of all kage. The sandaime said everyone in the Leaf has the spirit of fire and the Hokage will protect the village no matter what. It's part of Kishimoto's message. No need to find more evidence.

[socomberetta]

Can anyone elaborate on why Kakashi told Obito to get rid of the kunai that had his blood on it? Also, what kunai was he referring to? Kakashi couldnt have meant the kunai the stone nin used to slash him, since Obito clearly had no idea where he was at that point.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by socomberetta

Can anyone elaborate on why Kakashi told Obito to get rid of the kunai that had his blood on it? Also, what kunai was he referring to? Kakashi couldnt have meant the kunai the stone nin used to slash him, since Obito clearly had no idea where he was at that point.

That translation doesn't make sense. I think Kakashi was talking about the enemy...
He got rid of the kunai so it won't give away his position.

[Hunter]

You misunderstood Socomberetta, he said that the Rock nin get rid of the kunai he used to wound Kakashi who thus couldn't locate him by the smell of his blood.

Konoha was probably the strongest village before the little war against the Sand and the Sound but I don't think the difference of strength was showed to be so incredible.
The other 4 great hidden villages wasn't presented as really weaker, after all Konoha didn't win the past wars, it finished by treaties.

During the war with the Sand/Sound and Konoha, it was said during the discussion with Baki and Kazekage/Oro that the forces they could bring into Konoha were severely restricted not to draw attention on themself.
In spite of that, half of the power of Konoha was crushed during this attack and it would have been way worse if Gaara and Shukaku would have remained in the village.

Despite the message of team-strength of the manga, the power of Konoha seems to reside in the fact that this village produces some insanely strong individual.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by Hunter

the Rock nin get rid of the kunai he used to wound Kakashi who thus couldn't locate him by the smell of his blood.

?? I know that. Socomberetta asked why Kakashi told Obito to get rid of it.

[Hunter]

Yeah and I thus say that it was wrong and that Kakashi said that about the Rock nin.
Hence the "he [Kakashi] said " at the beginning of my sentence that you didn't quote.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yeah and I thus say that it was wrong and that Kakashi said that about the Rock nin.
Hence the "he [Kakashi] said " at the beginning of my sentence that you didn't quote.

Then why did you say I misunderstood socomberetta??

[socomberetta]

Originally Posted by Hunter

You misunderstood Socomberetta, he said that the Rock nin get rid of the kunai he used to wound Kakashi who thus couldn't locate him by the smell of his blood.

Of course! It makes a heck of a lot of sense now.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Satoru

Then why did you say I misunderstood socomberetta??

I think he meant that I misunderstood what was happening in that panel.