Dragon Ball Super (Manga)

[DragonOsman]

Spoiler for reply to spoiler:

Yeah, while it's good he can avoid getting his ki absorbed, the method they came up with doesn't feel right. I would've preferred it if it was because Moro can't absorb ki from Ultra Instinct.

Well, chapter's already out now.

So Goku wasn't able to learn how to use the true Ultra Instinct at will. And Sign uses up too much stamina. I think I get why Vegeta will have to step in.

[Kanon]

I really enjoyed the fight. Only part I disliked was what I mentioned above.

Moro's motives are weird. He doesn't seek to eat planets to increase his power but just to satisfy his hunger. Hey, maybe they can solve everything with Earth's food like with Beerus!

[DragonOsman]

Maybe. But Moro might eat mostly meat since he wants energy. A protein diet.

[GDB]

Yeah, I agree with not liking how Goku is avoiding the enemy absorption. But at the same time, previously when Moro did it without "aiming" per se, he was eating the planet. He doesn't want to consume Earth until he's killed Goku and Vegeta.

It's a bit of a BS way around his OPness, but it doesn't actually break his prior pattern.

Really looking forward to whenever Vegeta arrives. I also hope, after Goku runs out of stamina from going full hog, someone just point blank asks him "Did you seriously just pull a Frieza?"

[justavisitor]

Read it...couple of questions

1. Piccolo mentions he cannot sense goku's ki...but he is supposed to be not able to sense it since super saiyan god and super saiyan blue...which makes it really a moot point?

2. Goku uses speed to dodge power absorption...like most ppl already mentioned, this is a bit stretchy because when Moro first appeared, Goku's super saiyan blue was a lot stronger and faster than Moro, but Moro was still able to absorb power from an opponent who was a lot faster and stronger him at that time.

3. Stamina issue. Come on we already got this issue ever since super saiyan 3...can we have something new? XD

4. Vegeta's new technique..apparently now just a counter from power absorption doesn't help, as Moro can fight on par (somewhat) with ultra instinct goku, so Vegeta has to get a new technique and power upgrade at the same time. Is it time now for Vegeta to get a new form here?

[Kanon]

We know Vegeta's gotten a huge power-up from spirit training, but I don't know if he'll get a new form.

[DragonOsman]

Ultra Instinct is more than just letting Goku run super fast, isn't it? It lets him take the most optimal action possible at the time with his body moving before his mind has time to think about the action. So in theory it's faster than SSJ Blue.

You could say the stamina thing is getting redundant at this point (though I didn't think of that when I first read it), but they needed to give a reason why the true UI is better than Sign.

And yeah, I also think Vegeta is at least getting a huge power-up from his spirit training (which is synonymous with ki/energy training if I understand correctly since the Yardrat Chief said spirit is what they call "chi" and we know that's ki), but that we also probably shouldn't be convinced yet that he'll get a new form. It's possible he will, but it's also possible he'll just make his Royal Blue form more powerful.

[justavisitor]

I was just trying to say that while goku ui is faster than moro in completed form (let's assume he is)

but goku in ssj blue is supposed to be also much faster than moro when moro first appeared, and goku's power got absorbed (I mean, it's all relative, isn't it )

and is Vegeta's spirit training enough to make him as powerful as UI sign Goku?? (strength wise)

[DragonOsman]

Yes, there seems to be plot hole here. Or maybe Moro's just holding back this time.

I do believe Vegeta's training could make him as strong as or stronger than UI Sign Goku. We'll see, though.

[Tong]

Seems like Vegeta really will be the star of this saga. Beerus is going to Earth for some reason, but I dont think hes going to directly interfere with Moro.

If Vegeta's technique fails, I can see a fusion happening again since Moro appears to be way stronger than before.

[Kanon]

Looks like Vegeta's technique is ki drain. He'll probably measure dick with Moro the same way Goku did with his aura in this chapter.

Sucks the cyborgs were the ones who saved Goku from immediate danger. Vegeta obviously won't win, so he could have at least be given that.

[justavisitor]

A little question here, just because ppl on yardrat couldn't sense goku's ki, doesn't automatically mean goku is in ultra instinct?? Super saiyan blue doesn't count anymore ?? Is this a bit of a plot hole in here?

I also think Vegeta new technique is ki's drain...so not only Vegeta "steal" instant transmission, he could be now a walking spirit bomb

I think Vegeta can win this, because the phrase "the genius from hard work" (I don't know how to translate this) is out ...I thought I was reading naruto all of a sudden

I think Vegeta can beat Moro, 73 makes a comeback (when Moro is already out), and beerus stops 73, so technically Vegeta beats a major villain for the first time but doesn't finish the arc

Hate to see fusion tho...that's just cheating

[Kanon]

As much as I'd like Vegeta to win, I doubt it will happen. I'm predicting a RoF-like plot, where he'll defeat Moro but Moro will use his back-up plan (73) to regain the upper hand, leading to Merus having to intervene and getting erased.

Speaking of RoF, Whis is such a hypocrite. He used his powers to rewind time back then to give the heroes another chance, that's major interference.

[juanlien]

the legend

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Speaking of RoF, Whis is such a hypocrite. He used his powers to rewind time back then to give the heroes another chance, that's major interference.

Intention is the main point. Merus is being reprimanded because it's taking the side of Good for the sake of Good. He's tipping the scale due to alignment bias. Whis, meanwhile, only wanted to not lose the good food that Earth has. There was no good vs evil bias. It's kind of BS, but that seems to be the way they're taking the angels. Helping a side is fine as long as its with neutral intent on the good vs evil scale.

That being said, I do think Vegeta will beat Moro here. Mostly because he's never beaten a main villain before (at their peak, at least) and Super kind of feels like a Vegeta redemption act in a sense. He got hints of caring about his family and all that back in Z, but Super is where he truly showed the better person he became.

After humbling himself by asking someone weaker to train him, and after taking responsibility for the lives of the Namekians in an attempt to atone for his misdeeds in the Frieza arc, I don't see how they could write it any other way. Yeah, realistically he shouldn't have an upper hand because of this, but it's fictional writing. They set him up to win here, and if he doesn't, it basically just smacks the idea of humbling yourself or becoming a better person for another's sake right in the face.

I also don't see fusion being used again for a long, long time, if ever. It wasn't that long ago we got Vegito, and the arc immediately preceding this gave us Blue Gogeta. They showed up so they could make merchandise of them, but continuing to use it just hurts the series in the long run. I mean, it already hurt it by making Vegito have no long term consequences, and Gogeta being something they now know how to do, but having it be a trump card vs actively using it is slightly different.

[alex_drian]

Please please pretty pleeeeeeeeeeease leave Vegeta win this at least.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by GDB

Intention is the main point. Merus is being reprimanded because it's taking the side of Good for the sake of Good. He's tipping the scale due to alignment bias. Whis, meanwhile, only wanted to not lose the good food that Earth has. There was no good vs evil bias. It's kind of BS, but that seems to be the way they're taking the angels. Helping a side is fine as long as its with neutral intent on the good vs evil scale.

That being said, I do think Vegeta will beat Moro here. Mostly because he's never beaten a main villain before (at their peak, at least) and Super kind of feels like a Vegeta redemption act in a sense. He got hints of caring about his family and all that back in Z, but Super is where he truly showed the better person he became.

After humbling himself by asking someone weaker to train him, and after taking responsibility for the lives of the Namekians in an attempt to atone for his misdeeds in the Frieza arc, I don't see how they could write it any other way. Yeah, realistically he shouldn't have an upper hand because of this, but it's fictional writing. They set him up to win here, and if he doesn't, it basically just smacks the idea of humbling yourself or becoming a better person for another's sake right in the face.

I also don't see fusion being used again for a long, long time, if ever. It wasn't that long ago we got Vegito, and the arc immediately preceding this gave us Blue Gogeta. They showed up so they could make merchandise of them, but continuing to use it just hurts the series in the long run. I mean, it already hurt it by making Vegito have no long term consequences, and Gogeta being something they now know how to do, but having it be a trump card vs actively using it is slightly different.

Whis made it a point that while they can't act on their own behalf or the Earthlings, they can act on Beerus' behalf.

Beerus does have vested interest keeping Earth alive for the food, so Whis can intervene if it's for Beerus.


Also notice how Beerus conveniently asked for good food after overhearing Whis talk about Moro. I think there's a good chance that one of them will stop by Earth to get food, then fight back when Moro gets too greedy and picks a fight with them.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by GDB

Intention is the main point. Merus is being reprimanded because it's taking the side of Good for the sake of Good. He's tipping the scale due to alignment bias. Whis, meanwhile, only wanted to not lose the good food that Earth has. There was no good vs evil bias. It's kind of BS, but that seems to be the way they're taking the angels. Helping a side is fine as long as its with neutral intent on the good vs evil scale.
.

No there is a different, everything Whis done up to this point, it is either Beerus's instruction(Freeza) or with his silent consent. Thus he is acting as a proxy for God of Destroy and not an Angel. Technicality.

[Kanon]

The chapter's out.

Vegeta's new technique is really cool, but sadly it's the kind of technique that will probably never be useful again after this arc. It would have been incredibly useful in previous arcs though. Cell wouldn't have been a problem, and Boo less of one. Same for Zamasu.

Too bad they just couldn't let Vegeta hog all the glory and Moro came back stronger than ever. Assuming they've got some senzus (I forgot), Goku and Vegeta teaming up should be able to take care of him without too much troubles. Goku can keep him distracted and leave openings for Vegeta to use his technique to defuse and depower him.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Vegeta's new technique is really cool, but sadly it's the kind of technique that will probably never be useful again after this arc. It would have been incredibly useful in previous arcs though. Cell wouldn't have been a problem, and Boo less of one. Same for Zamasu.

It wouldn't have changed things with Buu since his original form was Kid Buu, which they had trouble with anyway. He would have just nuked the planet sooner.