2010-04-15, 01:27 | Link #8121 | ||
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Nobody mentioned noticing a void in the blood splatter in the shed, which there would have been if somebody had been standing there holding the sander or whatever. There also wasn't enough of a mess in the dining room to support the damage being done there. Quote:
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2010-04-15, 01:35 | Link #8122 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Which, incidentally, Nanjo never seems to do. |
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2010-04-15, 01:40 | Link #8124 | ||
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Although that brings up another critical thing I forgot about: Noise. If anybody's using a gun, it ought to be loud enough that anyone in the same building should hear it. The storm isn't that loud. Same with pretty much anything else that could be noisy. That's why I'm thinking there's either a gun we don't know about (silenced handgun?), or they're using something like a sledgehammer or other melee weapon to cause the damage. The corpses in the chapel in ep2 could perhaps be cut open with the cleaver we happen to know exists (Kanon used it in ep1, Battler uses it in ep4). I want to think all the murder weapons have been right in front of our faces all along, but it's hard to say that about the guns when the Winchesters seem like they ought to be messy, noisy, and inaccurate. Quote:
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2010-04-15, 02:01 | Link #8125 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Guesthouse may be an exception in terms of construction methods if Erika can listen for breathing through a wall. |
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2010-04-15, 02:10 | Link #8126 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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Based on what I read, when Rudolf saw Eva-Beatrice, he seemed to decide he was to avenge for Rosa.
Let me propose what happened for 4th to 6th twilight: Kyrie found Hideyoshi's cigarette butt when they were checked the rooms. Kyrie thought that Hideyoshi was lying about Eva's presence during the time Rosa and Maria were killed. Combined with the found loaded shotgun on Rosa's body, Kyrie thought that Eva was the one who killed the both. She told Rudolf that she wanted to take food from the mansion, she did not tell him about the cigarette butt yet. She wanted to isolate Hideyoshi and ask him about this matter. They went to the mansion, after Kyrie taking the rifle from Hideyoshi (since Hideyoshi was responsible for carrying the food), then Kyrie revealed that she knew that Eva was not in the house during the time Rosa and Maria were killed. And she hypothesized that they both solved the epitaph, they got into the quarrel over the gold and Eva accidentally killed Rosa. Since Maria witnessed the whole incident, out of fear and in panic, Eva strangled Maria as well. Hideyoshi asked for forgiveness for Eva, he said that it was just an accident. Rudolf said he would not forgive Eva and he would expose the killing to the police. Hideyoshi threw the cargo of food at Rudolf and took the shotgun from him, pointing at his head. Kyrie also raised her rifle at Hideyoshi. Kyrie and Rudolf told Hideyoshi to pull down the shotgun. Out of fear, Hideyoshi accidentally pulled the trigger and shot Rudolf at head. Kyrie also fired the bullet at Hideyoshi's chest. Hideyoshi was down. Kyrie went to check Rudolf's body. When she rose up, Hideyoshi fired the shotgun on the ground, hitting Kyrie's stomach. And then he perished. For the staking part, well, it depends on whom you believe got hold of the stakes....
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2010-04-15, 02:18 | Link #8127 | |
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There's also the simple practical problem of using an unsilenced rifle to covertly murder someone. Not even the ballsiest killer would do that if they had any quieter method available to them. Unless they can claim to know exactly where everyone is at all times and that they know no one will overhear them. Sounds too risky to me. If there exists some means to silence or dampen the sound of a sawed-off 1895 I'd be interested to hear it. |
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2010-04-15, 02:26 | Link #8128 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Oh, come on.
Battler makes several references to the stakes and even holds one in Ep2. They're clearly real. Quote:
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The culprit probably removed the silencer to draw out the other four. I'm still not sure that actually happened. It's too stupid to be real. |
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2010-04-15, 02:32 | Link #8129 | |
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I don't think Erika really did it either (if she was even there to really do it), but I can accept that maybe someone somewhere could. Ep5's GM simply considered that valid to accept a red. |
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2010-04-15, 02:46 | Link #8130 | |
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Location: Buffer overflow
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Spoiler for size:
However, I wonder. The "powerful guns" of EP4's opening seem a bit more like what you'd expect a Winchester to do than all those forehead shots in the other games. Maybe there's some kind of bullet or method of weakening the power of a gun like that. It might also have the effect of dulling the noise. This would effectively be the "stake shooter" weapon, though it obviously doesn't literally shoot stakes, just makes a good sized hole for them. Anyways, I seriously doubt there are any other firearms involved in these murders. It would be a real disappointment if there were, at least to me (unless there's some clue I've missed).
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Last edited by chronotrig; 2010-04-15 at 03:00. |
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2010-04-15, 03:05 | Link #8131 | ||
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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On the other hand, there is evidence that somebody in the family is good at special effects makeup. Jessica's "I'll be a corpse with its head split open" in EP4, for instance. A lot of this stuff can be done with relatively cheap materials, and it's not like Team Beatrice was hurting for cash in any case. |
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2010-04-15, 03:09 | Link #8132 |
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There are lots of ways to accomplish it, just not with a 100-year-old gun model that also happens to have been modified in a way that makes it noisier and flashier. I'd be intensely skeptical of a silencer, suppressor, barrel extension, or low-velocity rounds existing for the Winchesters (they almost certainly don't even make those, let alone the killer having any access to them). The only thing I can think of is a pillow or something, but then you'd have pillows with holes through them and you'd have to shoot point-blank anyway. So either the head-smashing thing is a different weapon, or it's caused after the fact through some means that isn't shooting. Just because Battler hypothesizes that a larger-caliber weapon was used doesn't mean he's right. Especially given the consistency of the head wounds in ep4. That immediately makes me suspect an after-death mutilation. Even if the killer never misses, he or she can't possibly cause the exact same wound to every single victim unless they're already incapacitated.
Also chrono you seem to be forgetting that the killings wouldn't have happened all at once (if they did, they wouldn't have been done with a gun, anyway). Even if no one outside the particular building heard anything, the people inside should have. And let's not forget Natsuhi was inside the mansion all night in ep1 and didn't wake up for any noises, though it's possible she drugged herself to sleep and wouldn't have anyway. |
2010-04-15, 03:15 | Link #8133 | |
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2010-04-15, 03:19 | Link #8134 | |
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As for Natsuhi's inattention... I think she's a heavy sleeper and she probably took some pills, so it's probable she'd have slept through a carpet bombing. She's not a very reliable source. But the other victims surely would have overheard something... |
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2010-04-15, 03:26 | Link #8135 |
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Yeah, but what are they going to do? If Sayo is a good enough shot, it's very possible that she managed to hit 4 people in a row at fairly close range, which is the only tricky part (Gohda was dozing off with his magazine, and wouldn't have put up much of a fight even if he did hear gunshots). We're talking about people possibly in their 40's or 50's who have been arguing constantly for the greater part of a day. We don't know when the murders happened, but they might have been up several hours past midnight. If you've ever done that before, you'd know that you can't just jump up and fight off some murderer who comes in the door swinging a gun Especially if that person was dressed as Shannon for some reason. If I saw that, I'd think I was losing my mind.
...Actually, now I really want to see that.
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2010-04-15, 03:35 | Link #8136 |
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Meh. I think some kind of drugging or poison is a lot more likely given the patterns in other FTs. It seems like a bad plan for the killer to put faith in his or her gunslinging ability and hope nobody is smart enough to overhear and hide, run away, or call somebody (granted in some episodes the internal lines are cut, but in others they're not, and people may be lying about them being cut at all).
In ep1, Gohda and Shannon are the only isolated victims (and many people think Shannon was possibly the killer, though not necessarily). Rudolf and Kyrie probably would have been together, probably with Rosa and Krauss. It makes much more sense to have drugged all of them than to risk trying to kill them all at once. Besides, knowing Kyrie and Rudolf, what are the odds one or both of them are packing? |
2010-04-15, 03:42 | Link #8137 | ||
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Of course, if Sayo is the only major culprit (or one of two), then she has to be willing to take risks, especially during the first twilight. However, as I've pointed out, all the factors would be in her favor for the EP1 first twilight. Quote:
Edit: I think poison is used, but only in the second part of EP3. The Siestas seem to represent killing by methods other than the stakes, so the "shot to the hearts" of Rudolf and Kyrie might mean that they were killed by the poison instead of the gunshot.
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2010-04-15, 03:48 | Link #8138 |
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It stretches credibility. A lot. I think ep2, ep5, and ep6 are some kind of hint in this respect that perhaps the First Twilight is not a brilliantly-executed multiple murder as it appears, but a mass killing through some form of deception and willing participation (unknowingly, anyway). Killing the incapacitated seems like something that the game has been hinting at. I mean, look at Beatrice's very suspect definition of "instant" death.
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2010-04-15, 03:51 | Link #8139 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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2010-04-15, 03:57 | Link #8140 | |
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But honestly, even if somebody is that good at makeup, was there really enough for 15 or so people? |
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