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RWBladewing · 2014-08-21, 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Three years of absence and my mind is blown by how Instancing in the vanilla content is the fast track to level. Once you hit Level 15+, there's almost no reason to go out into the world to explore as the instance list automatically gets updated with whatever's suitable

And if that's not enough, we have characters with high level gear just slaughtering everything to speed up process... How's a Brewmaster Monk suppose to train his tanking skills

?!

You probably need to find a dedicated group of friends to run instances with you if you want to learn tanking from scratch. I haven't played since early Cataclysm but back then, people were already obsessed with blazing through instances as fast as possible and had no patience for anyone trying to learn, and I doubt it's gotten any better in that regard as the game has gotten older and even more heirloom gear has been released. I would even constantly see people trying to votekick the tank if they were "taking too long". Doesn't help that all of the instances below max level are also so easy that they can be "tanked" by dps without much difficulty, so people are even less willing to run with new tank players.

I've considered coming back to the game when Warlords releases and trying to do what I mentioned but I unfortunately don't have any friends who can play this game on the same schedule as me.

Chaos2Frozen · 2014-08-21, 09:24

I thought I did reasonably well, but the brewmaster tank has so many things to keep track out that its very overwhelming... more than my death knight frost tank from 3 years ago.

Btw what is this heirloom thing and how does it work?

Ithekro · 2014-08-21, 09:49

Heirloom gear is gear that can be purchased by a higher level character for I think Justice Points from a vendor (Orgrimmar/Stormwind). I think they are similar in model to old Tier 1 raiding gear and are suppose to be sort of hand-me-down gear from an old relative or friend to a lower geared alt. (the gear name is in a kind of tan color)

This gear scales with your level from 1 - 80 originally. Newer verions can scale up to 85 and the older gear can be upgraded with Justice Point to scale to 85. A brand new character can get sent them though the mail from your other characters on either faction. They bind on account. Characters that start in instanced areas have to wait until they can get to a mail box before being able to use them. They also do not ave durability stats...they never have to be repaired.

This gear has good stats on the roughly equal to a similar level rare gear and also has bonus experiance gained when worn. This means you will have rested XP+ while in enough of this gear, plus you will not have to keep any gear loot while leveling (you can sell it all for gold or mats, or keep them for tranmog.) It also allows a low level character to have stuff that in slots that don't normally drop at low levels, like a hat, rings, and trinkets. Gear for classes that take a lower kind of armor prior to level 40 can use the higher level heirloom gear as the gear will automatically be the lower armor type until level 40 then go back up to plate, or mail armor. So you can by a hunter the mail heirloom gear and it will be leather armor on a lower level hunter until reaching level 40 were it will revert to its regular mail armor status.

Basically it allows an alt to level much faster and easier.

I think there are heirlooms for almost all slots now, though some are difficult to get. Hellscream on higher raid difficulties drops heirloom weapons that scale from 90 to 100, and some heirloom gear can only be unlocked via guild leveling.

Some use to be only avalible at the old Tournament ground in Wrath or Dalaran, but I think they moved those to the main cities.

Westlo · 2014-08-21, 10:11

Healing with characters in leveling dungeons is so boring, like the TBC ones most bosses go down without me even having to use a heal... smite smite smite smite oh he's dead.

Ithekro · 2014-08-21, 10:20

I healed in a series of level 30-40 dungeons with a (shadow) priest that didn't have a weapon, chest, or cloak, or hat. As those had been heirloom gear that I had sent to my mage and forgot about. I had also forgotten to upgrade my spells since probably level 19 due to a lack of gold (during Wrath into CATA) and I still healed the Scarlet Monestary fine even though I'd never actually healed in a group before. I had serious mana issues since all my spells were lower level and took way took much mana/times to cast to actually heal the tank. Was drinking after each pull.

I didn't notice that was the problem until I got to Strangelthorn and it was taking too much mana to kill trolls and heal myself questing. Once I bought the spells I needed, I could coast through that place with the heirloom gear.

Chaos2Frozen · 2014-08-21, 10:27

That reminds me, you no longer have to buy abilities huh ~_~

Ithekro · 2014-08-21, 10:31

The class trainers don't do much these days aside from allow you to redo talents, glyphs, and change specialization and purchase duel talents. That changed at the start of MoP.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2014-08-21, 18:03

Yeah, things are very... Streamlined... These days. No one wants to take the time to do things. Well at least until WotLK/Cata level dungeons it's just a rolling maul or Zerg, but at that level you have to slow down a bit. Heirloom gear is part of the problem as well, since I think it is comparative to blues the whole way through - the weapons are especially good.

It's usually like instant queues from 1 - 60, 5 minutes from 60 - 80, 10 - 15 minutes from 80 - 85 and 15 - 20 for 85 - 90. BC I do about half a dozen instances, go straight to Nagrand, quest a bit and instance, get 68 do two or three WotLK dungeons, go to Grizzly hills quest a little, do some more instances to get to 80. Than I just do Hyjal and instances and get to 85, and take my time in Pandaria trundling along - no heirloom gear there, except all the weapons I've stolen from Garrosh.

Some of the older game features I kind of miss. I kinda wish spell acquisition was a bit more involved, like you acquired them from out in the world from people - either questing or you find a tomb on a bookshelf somewhere. And I wish we still had to walk to the instance first, to add it to the dungeon queue list - led there by feeder quests.

Ithekro · 2014-08-21, 20:17

What you describe is mostly a system designed to help alts get through old content, faster so they can get to current content that they've rub before.

A new player would not have access to heirloom gear and would likely be best servived leveling via questing, which leeds one to the instances via the storyline.

GDB · 2014-08-21, 20:22

Or they ignore instances because people are jerks.

Hooves · 2014-08-21, 20:53

The problem is the learning curve with how fast leveling is. Is going to be really weird if people just do dungeons. I mean, most people I know would rather just spam instances then just spend 50+ minutes going around Dustwallow Marsh questing for Theramore... (shudders). So the other spells you have that you never use because instances are so easy. Will lead you to LFR where the wipes will begin.

I finished leveling within 8+ days to max level. Good thing I played World of Warcraft before because everything would've been incredibly complicated.

GDB · 2014-08-21, 20:56

Questing won't really help with that. Few months back I leveled my Monk up from 1 to 90 and I barely used any of my skills. Was mostly just a small rotation of flying kick (to act like charge), jab, blackout kick, and fists of fury.

Beyond that, I don't think I ever used anything else other than roll for speed.

Chaos2Frozen · 2014-08-21, 20:59

^It's a whole other game when trying to learn a monk tank though, so many things to keep track off...

Another thing for new players is that instancing alone isn't going to be enough to pay for all those fancy endgame toys like mounts, mounts, and flying mounts... At least, not at the moment in the old world content.

Hooves · 2014-08-21, 21:03

Surprising enough, I had a better income in Mists of Pandaria then I did for Cataclysm. That's mostly because the market is so pricey for things.

GDB · 2014-08-21, 21:07

Plus there's like nothing to buy if you don't REALLY want to. I didn't do the farm crap, but I was self sufficient on everything I needed as far as mats go. I didn't buy Pandaria flying on any of my 4 90s, because I just did the flying serpent chain and got it for free. Monk even got to just sell back the serpent at the end for 750g.

And I even managed to randomly make one of those stage 3 weapons with the old Burning Crusade looks and sold it for like 15k.

Chaos2Frozen · 2014-08-21, 21:45

I guess I'll just power through instance content until Northrend.

EDIT:

btw, which addons do you guys use?

Hooves · 2014-08-21, 22:14

I don't like addons. Don't fit well with me, but the only addons I used were DeadlyBossMod and Recount. Only things I needed for raiding.

Ithekro · 2014-08-21, 22:17

I use Bartender4 because I like to see everything I use on the screen.

I also use DeadlyBossMod and Recount for raiding.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2014-08-21, 23:56

I use RealUI, it's a really good total UI conversion mod that is constantly updated. But could take a little bit to get used to for some of the features. But it comes with pretty much everything you'd need (except Deadly Boss Mods and Pet Battle Master in my case).

Mentar · 2014-08-22, 04:23

Frankly, if there is one thing that has gotten _better_ over time, it's questing. Every once in a while, they manage to create a reasonable and worthwhile (sometimes even funny) questline. In fact, replaying old areas with new twinks has turned out to be surprisingly enjoyable.

I wouldn't exchange that for running instances with (all too often) dorks. Nope, not me.

2014-08-21, 09:49	Link #8363
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Heirloom gear is gear that can be purchased by a higher level character for I think Justice Points from a vendor (Orgrimmar/Stormwind). I think they are similar in model to old Tier 1 raiding gear and are suppose to be sort of hand-me-down gear from an old relative or friend to a lower geared alt. (the gear name is in a kind of tan color) This gear scales with your level from 1 - 80 originally. Newer verions can scale up to 85 and the older gear can be upgraded with Justice Point to scale to 85. A brand new character can get sent them though the mail from your other characters on either faction. They bind on account. Characters that start in instanced areas have to wait until they can get to a mail box before being able to use them. They also do not ave durability stats...they never have to be repaired. This gear has good stats on the roughly equal to a similar level rare gear and also has bonus experiance gained when worn. This means you will have rested XP+ while in enough of this gear, plus you will not have to keep any gear loot while leveling (you can sell it all for gold or mats, or keep them for tranmog.) It also allows a low level character to have stuff that in slots that don't normally drop at low levels, like a hat, rings, and trinkets. Gear for classes that take a lower kind of armor prior to level 40 can use the higher level heirloom gear as the gear will automatically be the lower armor type until level 40 then go back up to plate, or mail armor. So you can by a hunter the mail heirloom gear and it will be leather armor on a lower level hunter until reaching level 40 were it will revert to its regular mail armor status. Basically it allows an alt to level much faster and easier. I think there are heirlooms for almost all slots now, though some are difficult to get. Hellscream on higher raid difficulties drops heirloom weapons that scale from 90 to 100, and some heirloom gear can only be unlocked via guild leveling. Some use to be only avalible at the old Tournament ground in Wrath or Dalaran, but I think they moved those to the main cities. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2014-08-21 at 10:12.

2014-08-21, 10:20	Link #8365
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I healed in a series of level 30-40 dungeons with a (shadow) priest that didn't have a weapon, chest, or cloak, or hat. As those had been heirloom gear that I had sent to my mage and forgot about. I had also forgotten to upgrade my spells since probably level 19 due to a lack of gold (during Wrath into CATA) and I still healed the Scarlet Monestary fine even though I'd never actually healed in a group before. I had serious mana issues since all my spells were lower level and took way took much mana/times to cast to actually heal the tank. Was drinking after each pull. I didn't notice that was the problem until I got to Strangelthorn and it was taking too much mana to kill trolls and heal myself questing. Once I bought the spells I needed, I could coast through that place with the heirloom gear. __________________

2014-08-21, 10:31	Link #8367
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The class trainers don't do much these days aside from allow you to redo talents, glyphs, and change specialization and purchase duel talents. That changed at the start of MoP. __________________

2014-08-21, 18:03	Link #8368
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	Yeah, things are very... Streamlined... These days. No one wants to take the time to do things. Well at least until WotLK/Cata level dungeons it's just a rolling maul or Zerg, but at that level you have to slow down a bit. Heirloom gear is part of the problem as well, since I think it is comparative to blues the whole way through - the weapons are especially good. It's usually like instant queues from 1 - 60, 5 minutes from 60 - 80, 10 - 15 minutes from 80 - 85 and 15 - 20 for 85 - 90. BC I do about half a dozen instances, go straight to Nagrand, quest a bit and instance, get 68 do two or three WotLK dungeons, go to Grizzly hills quest a little, do some more instances to get to 80. Than I just do Hyjal and instances and get to 85, and take my time in Pandaria trundling along - no heirloom gear there, except all the weapons I've stolen from Garrosh. Some of the older game features I kind of miss. I kinda wish spell acquisition was a bit more involved, like you acquired them from out in the world from people - either questing or you find a tomb on a bookshelf somewhere. And I wish we still had to walk to the instance first, to add it to the dungeon queue list - led there by feeder quests. __________________

2014-08-21, 20:17	Link #8369
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	What you describe is mostly a system designed to help alts get through old content, faster so they can get to current content that they've rub before. A new player would not have access to heirloom gear and would likely be best servived leveling via questing, which leeds one to the instances via the storyline. __________________

2014-08-21, 09:24	Link #8362
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	I thought I did reasonably well, but the brewmaster tank has so many things to keep track out that its very overwhelming... more than my death knight frost tank from 3 years ago. Btw what is this heirloom thing and how does it work?

2014-08-21, 10:11	Link #8364
Westlo Lets be reality Join Date: May 2007	Healing with characters in leveling dungeons is so boring, like the TBC ones most bosses go down without me even having to use a heal... smite smite smite smite oh he's dead.

2014-08-21, 10:27	Link #8366
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	That reminds me, you no longer have to buy abilities huh ~_~

2014-08-21, 20:22	Link #8370
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Or they ignore instances because people are jerks.

2014-08-21, 20:56	Link #8372
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Questing won't really help with that. Few months back I leveled my Monk up from 1 to 90 and I barely used any of my skills. Was mostly just a small rotation of flying kick (to act like charge), jab, blackout kick, and fists of fury. Beyond that, I don't think I ever used anything else other than roll for speed.

2014-08-21, 20:59	Link #8373
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	^It's a whole other game when trying to learn a monk tank though, so many things to keep track off... Another thing for new players is that instancing alone isn't going to be enough to pay for all those fancy endgame toys like mounts, mounts, and flying mounts... At least, not at the moment in the old world content.

2014-08-21, 21:07	Link #8375
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Plus there's like nothing to buy if you don't REALLY want to. I didn't do the farm crap, but I was self sufficient on everything I needed as far as mats go. I didn't buy Pandaria flying on any of my 4 90s, because I just did the flying serpent chain and got it for free. Monk even got to just sell back the serpent at the end for 750g. And I even managed to randomly make one of those stage 3 weapons with the old Burning Crusade looks and sold it for like 15k.

2014-08-21, 21:45	Link #8376
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	I guess I'll just power through instance content until Northrend. EDIT: btw, which addons do you guys use?

2014-08-21, 22:17	Link #8378
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I use Bartender4 because I like to see everything I use on the screen. I also use DeadlyBossMod and Recount for raiding. __________________

2014-08-21, 23:56	Link #8379
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	I use RealUI, it's a really good total UI conversion mod that is constantly updated. But could take a little bit to get used to for some of the features. But it comes with pretty much everything you'd need (except Deadly Boss Mods and Pet Battle Master in my case). __________________

2014-08-22, 04:23	Link #8380
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	Frankly, if there is one thing that has gotten _better_ over time, it's questing. Every once in a while, they manage to create a reasonable and worthwhile (sometimes even funny) questline. In fact, replaying old areas with new twinks has turned out to be surprisingly enjoyable. I wouldn't exchange that for running instances with (all too often) dorks. Nope, not me.