[manga] Sasuke stronger than Naruto

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

"Naruto thinks better on his feet than Shikamaru"

That´s what I disagree on, I should have made that clearer. I refuse to believe "trial and error" would be great thinking.

"Naruto adjusts his strategies as he fights"

I don´t believe that either. He always won in just overpowering the opponent, even in the Pain fight he won with the SAME strategy he had used about five times before in that fight.

And just for the record: The Itachi vs. Sasuke fight was the best fight in the series to date, imo.

What do you think trial and error is? Its adjusting how you approach the situation. I know the english language is something that is conveyed and interpreted in several ways (which is why you can get a PhD in english) but please try to keep up.

What it seems to me its just a matter of difference in opinion. So its pretty pointless to argue it any further.

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Kinda is, look back through the chapters and to constantly draw natural energy in one must be completely still or merged with a toad to do that for them, if they dont have that then the natural energy they have when they enter the fight will be all they have unless the enemy lets them just stand around.

So when the energy has ran out he needs to reverse summon a bunshin and release the technique to get the energy back but due to this he can only use 2 clones or it disturbs the other clones focusing and he can only use 2 FRS before his energy is almost completely gone.

One thing I like about the Pain vs Naruto fight is the use of a basic henge to sneak attack.

You're not paying attention to the latter of the Pain vs Naruto, he's able to go into Hermit mode without such methods. Two such instances is the last part of the fight and when he turned hermit just as he arrives at Nagato's location.

[ZGoten]

Of course "trial and error" can include adjusting to a situation, but that doesn´t mean it´s "great thinking".

Great thinking, imo, would be the way Shikamaru figured out a way to free his team from the rock prison when they were chasing Sasuke´s hijackers. He knew it was going to work.

It wasn´t just a matter of opinion between yout point of view and mine. It was also a matter of you believing I wouldn´t understand your "trial and error".
Now with that being said I´d say it´s a sole matter of opinion from here on.

[Muyasuki]

Sasuke. And use to think they were around the same level but now, I don't even think its close.

Alright, I'll just say this right now. Sasuke is (probably) the second strongest person in the Naruto-verse. He'll stay there until they figure out Tobi's weakness (Sasuke doesn't need to be there or even figure it out). Once that's done, Sasuke's the strongest. Period. Thats what happens when the author's favourite character is way too obvious. He seems to become more powerful as the plot demands.

Even if the two (Naruto and Sasuke) were to go one on one, Naruto would lose due to his hard-on for Sasuke.

[james0246]

^To clear up a bit of a misconception, Sasuke is not Kishimoto's favourite character (in the latest data book, the closest to a "favourite" personal character listed was Shikimaru, but that was only under the hypothetical scenario of Kishimoto turning into a girl and deciding on which character he would like to date ), rather he is Kishimoto's favourite character to draw/illustrate. If Sasuke was actually Kishimoto's favourite character, then he would provide Sasuke with some defintive wins and not so many almost-but-not-quite-you-really-just-survived wins.

[noven]

I was pretty sure that at one point Kishi said that Sasuke was his favorite character to draw, but later said that Naruto was his favorite character because of his personality. I guess that throws a wrench into anti-sasuke fanbois looking for excuses to hate.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Muyasuki

Sasuke. And use to think they were around the same level but now, I don't even think its close.

Alright, I'll just say this right now. Sasuke is (probably) the second strongest person in the Naruto-verse. He'll stay there until they figure out Tobi's weakness (Sasuke doesn't need to be there or even figure it out). Once that's done, Sasuke's the strongest. Period. Thats what happens when the author's favourite character is way too obvious. He seems to become more powerful as the plot demands.

Even if the two (Naruto and Sasuke) were to go one on one, Naruto would lose due to his hard-on for Sasuke.

Sasuke is soooo strong that he needs help against Raikage

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Sasuke is soooo strong that he needs help against Raikage

Well it's the Raikage. One of the 5 strongest shinobi in the world...who's also receiving backup from two jounins.

[Scorpian]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Sasuke is soooo strong that he needs help against Raikage

...Because "strong" ninja never need any assistance right? And the Raikage is just some average joe.

Originally Posted by james0246

^To clear up a bit of a misconception, Sasuke is not Kishimoto's favourite character (in the latest data book, the closest to a "favourite" personal character listed was Shikimaru, but that was only under the hypothetical scenario of Kishimoto turning into a girl and deciding on which character he would like to date ), rather he is Kishimoto's favourite character to draw/illustrate. If Sasuke was actually Kishimoto's favourite character, then he would provide Sasuke with some defintive wins and not so many almost-but-not-quite-you-really-just-survived wins.

I've heard that Sasuke was his favorite character from alot of posters (mainly those who want to bash him and the author), where did people hear this from, and how did it get mixed up? Its funny how people come with this crap, make it the basis of their argument and its not even true.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Scorpian

I've heard that Sasuke was his favorite character from alot of posters (mainly those who want to bash him and the author), where did people hear this from, and how did it get mixed up? Its funny how people come with this crap, make it the basis of their argument and its not even true.

Kishimoto didnt even want to make Sasuke in the first place his editors did so now Sasuke has become his favourite character to draw which is why he gets more outfit changes than any other character.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Rickketik

So, stop brainf*cking yourselves, Naruto is just another d*ckhead on the long long list of shonen main characters who can't say anything but stuff like WHHHAAAAAA, OOOOOIII, HAAAAAAA and nakama

Agreed, maybe a little harsh but it's true.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Sasuke is soooo strong that he needs help against Raikage

Naruto can't win a battle without kyuubi
what's your point mate?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Kishimoto didnt even want to make Sasuke in the first place his editors did so now Sasuke has become his favourite character to draw which is why he gets more outfit changes than any other character.

I think you're getting confused with Team Taka. Kishi was pressured by the editors to put them in but Sasuke was always a part of his concept for Naruto

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I think you're getting confused with Team Taka. Kishi was pressured by the editors to put them in but Sasuke was always a part of his concept for Naruto

Actually he wasnt:

Spoiler for space:

When developing the original Naruto manga, Masashi Kishimoto had not initially intended to create Sasuke. After speaking with his editor about the future of the series, he was advised to create a rival character for the series' protagonist, Naruto Uzumaki, which resulted in Sasuke's creation. To learn more about creating an effective rivalry, Kishimoto read a variety of manga to gather ideas on what constituted such a rivalry, and he coalesced these ideal elements into one relationship. Because Sasuke is intended to be Naruto's opposite, Kishimoto is always careful to make sure Sasuke is never too emotional. With Sasuke's character being that of a "cool genius", Kishimoto feels he has created the ideal rivalry.

Sasuke's design gave Kishimoto a number of problems, making him the most difficult character he has had to create. Because he lacked a proper idea of what Sasuke's face should look like, initial drafts of Sasuke appeared too old or mature for a character the same age as Naruto. Once settling on a proper face, Kishimoto began to work on Sasuke's attire. Original designs of Sasuke had a number of necklaces and ties around his arms and legs, a result of Kishimoto's habit of giving characters as much ornamentation as possible. Realizing he could not draw such a complex character on a weekly basis, Kishimoto simplified the design to a basic contrast of Naruto's costume.

For Kishimoto, Sasuke remains the most difficult character for him to draw. While drawing, errors and mishaps commonly result in Sasuke's youthful appearance being lost, a result of Kishimoto's inexperience in drawing characters mature beyond their years. Sasuke's hair, originally kept short to save Kishimoto time, has slowly gotten longer as the series has progressed, resulting in the amount of time needed to draw Sasuke increasing as well. Sasuke received a new costume during the final portion of the Chunin Exam arc, which featured a number of belts strapped around his arms and legs. Due to the time needed to draw a costume of this design, Kishimoto returned Sasuke to his original costume in the following arc. Despite the time and energy Kishimoto spends drawing Sasuke, Sasuke has become his favorite character to draw.

[ZGoten]

Okay, now that explains everything. The fact that Sasuke initially wasn´t intented by Kishimoto means that at the beginning he didn´t have a clue of where his story would go.

/edit: But I believe it´s common for mangaka to just come up with stuff during drawing, lol. Maybe except for mastermind Eiichiro Oda.^^

[Hunter]

Kishi wasn't pressured by the editors to put Taka's team in, he was asked to give them individual battles (for merchandising I believe) even though he's still to do it.
Sasuke has always been part of Naruto the manga, what you are quoting is from after the Naruto pilote was successful and Shounen Jumps asked Kishimoto to create an original series based on the concept.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

You're not paying attention to the latter of the Pain vs Naruto, he's able to go into Hermit mode without such methods. Two such instances is the last part of the fight and when he turned hermit just as he arrives at Nagato's location.

No he is not, he simply kept still for as long as he needed to before entering the "tree".

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Well it's the Raikage. One of the 5 strongest shinobi in the world...who's also receiving backup from two jounins.

And to all the others that commented on what I said. The person I responded to said that Sasuke is the second strongest person in Narutoverse, calling Madara the first. Meaning that Sasuke should be able to btch slap Raikage around without help.

I guess people don't really pay attention anymore

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Agreed, maybe a little harsh but it's true.




Naruto can't win a battle without kyuubi
what's your point mate?

Wrong, where have you been?

Originally Posted by Hunter

No he is not, he simply kept still for as long as he needed to before entering the "tree".

That's just a guess, we haven't been shown that naruto was concentrating on gathering natural energy. And what's a long time? 3 seconds? 3mins? 30mins? 3hrs?

I don't Naruto spent more than 5 seconds standing at the door step of his most powerful enemy to date.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

That's just a guess, we haven't been shown that naruto was concentrating on gathering natural energy. And what's a long time? 3 seconds? 3mins? 30mins? 3hrs?

I don't Naruto spent more than 5 seconds standing at the door step of his most powerful enemy to date.

It is certainely not a guess, the way Naruto can gather natural energy was explained through and through, you are the one who claim it is no longer true based on nothing but the fact that you didn't see what Naruto did off panel.

Naruto simply stayed put for a little while when he was on his way to Nagato, that could have required a dozen seconds or a minutes or more, we don't know the exact number, but he did it because it's mandatory to the very principle of Sage mode.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It is certainely not a guess, the way Naruto can gather natural energy was explained through and through, you are the one who claim it is no longer true based on nothing but the fact that you didn't see what Naruto did off panel.

Naruto simply stayed put for a little while when he was on his way to Nagato, that could have required a dozen seconds or a minutes or more, we don't know the exact number, but he did it because it's mandatory to the very principle of Sage mode.

He only needs to have a calm and focused mind, who's to say he isn't capable of that while moving? As far as Nagato was concerned he was speedily moving towards him.

Also, the first time Naruto turned sage was instantaneous. When Naruto was berserked. And the moment Naruto won against the fight within himself he was in sage mode. He didn't have time to stand still and clear his mind.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

He only needs to have a calm and focused mind, who's to say he isn't capable of that while moving? As far as Nagato was concerned he was speedily moving towards him.

Also, the first time Naruto turned sage was instantaneous. When Naruto was berserked. And the moment Naruto won against the fight within himself he was in sage mode. He didn't have time to stand still and clear his mind.

Yeah he did he was standing on Chibaku Tensei without Sage Mode still then he turned sage mode still standing in the same position.

And he was standing still in front of the tree before opening it to reveal sage eyes

Also he cannot have a clear, calm and focused as he needs to focus on where he is going and his surrounding whilsts moving.

[Methuselah]

Even if Sasuke wasn't intentionally created by Kishi, he did a f****en good job at it from then on. Naruto wouldn't be who he is without him during his child days. And yes, Sasuke's and his Uchiha background story is way more interesting. Nice way to stack the storyline's complexity.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

He only needs to have a calm and focused mind, who's to say he isn't capable of that while moving? As far as Nagato was concerned he was speedily moving towards him.

No he doesn't need only that, I can only advise you to re-read this part of the manga because you obviously missed the point of the training. Remaining perfectly still has been stated over and over as an absolute necessity. That's the reason it usually requires to have comrades to buy some time or to have another Sage to "fuse" together so they can split the work between gathering nature energy and fighting if you are to use Sage mode in battle.
In Naruto's case he had to rely on Kage Bunshin because the 9 tails prevented anyone to fuse with him.

Also, the first time Naruto turned sage was instantaneous. When Naruto was berserked. And the moment Naruto won against the fight within himself he was in sage mode. He didn't have time to stand still and clear his mind.

What first time are you even talking about? When Naruto reached Sage mode the first time he was meditating on top of a needle-like rock precisely to learn to stay absolutely motionless. When he went to fight Pain he was already in Sage-mode before he was summoned and when he "won against the fight within himself" (I suppose you mean when Yondaime's remnant sealed the Kyubi?) he had been immobile for quite some time since he couldn't even move in the first place.