Claymore Chapter 118

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Dj0rel

And I know for sure that they knew she was alive because they disarmed her (she doesn't have her sword in this chapter).

It would be easier to transport a dead body without claymore, don't you think? And I doubt they would left the body where it was. Even assuming they knew she was alive (which is unlikely judging by ninja's words they should have finished her off) I don't see how she could escape. And sorry but it seems that MiB need to see more than one hole in a Claymore body to assume (s)he's dead which Miria's example has shown. And if Miria would recover from more serious wounds than Raftela it would be stupid. Anyway, I've tried to look at it from every angle and it always makes MiB retards. Yagi might give us some explanation next time but it will be as convincing as his reason why Miria hadn't gone over her limit when fighting Rigaldo (and BTW he did not explain why she was wasting her energy on twins too, she didn't have to go over her limit but she could have released 30% of her youki to gain strength during non-phantom attacks).

Anyway I still give Miria thumbs up for being the first one to successfully hurt her opponent.

Hysteria might be the weakest opponent of all three and Miria is obviously the strongest of the Claymores present in HQ (besides the twins).

[Jean Claymore]

Heck, am I the only one who's feeling this thread's been going downhills? Been reading nothing but complaints It's not to be rude or anything, but I honestly don't giva s**t when someone tries to pull out meaningless points or speaks Engrish. Just don't reply if you don't feel like it. Come on ppl, this is Claymore thread... remember?

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Both Cid and Galk have performed rather inhuman feats before. Particularly Galk jumping around on roof top in full plate.

It's the same thing Raki being capable of slaying yomas

[Fenrir_valindri]

Hysteria might be the weakest opponent of all three and Miria is obviously the strongest of the Claymores present in HQ (besides the twins).

She could also be the strongest for all we know, and even if there is a difference in strength among the three I doubt it is a very large one.

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by Gooral

It would be easier to transport a dead body without claymore, don't you think?

The difference between transporting a dead body with or without a claymore is so insignificant that removing the sword probably never would have even cross their minds. No, they took her sword because they didn't want her to use it against them because they knew she was alive.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Even assuming they knew she was alive (which is unlikely judging by ninja's words they should have finished her off)

I don't understand how those words imply that they thought she was dead. In fact they do the exact opposite. If they thought she was dead wouldn't that ninja say something like "Damn that one, we should have made sure she was dead". Finishing off someone implies that you know they are alive and making sure someone was dead implies that you think they are dead.

Originally Posted by Gooral

I don't see how she could escape.

She didn't escape. Raki set her free. He even said so himself, "how did these guys manage to catch a warrior", which means she was imprisoned when he found her.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Anyway, I've tried to look at it from every angle and it always makes MiB retards.

Obviously you haven't, since you reject the possibility that they knew she was alive.

Originally Posted by Gooral

as convincing as his reason why Miria hadn't gone over her limit when fighting Rigaldo

The reason why Miria hadn't gone over her limit when fighting Rigaldo is very convincing. There are huge differences between those two fights. Seriously you are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[Demon6666]

in other words, the sky is blue.

the post above is correct.

[Fermat]

Hm, the line was: "Damn that one! If we had properly finished her off earlier..."

English isn't my first language, but I'll try to take a stab at it.

The statement seems to imply that they know now that they didn't finish her off properly earlier. This may mean they thought earlier that they had finished her off properly, ergo, they thought they had killed her.

As for them removing the sword, who knows? Maybe it was to make the "corpse" lighter while being dragged. Maybe it was to avoid getting themselves injured while hoisting the "corpse" onto a wagon of sorts. Maybe they were just extra cautious because none of them had the ability to sense yoki and they didn't want her to use it against them. All of the above are valid reasons, some somewhat insignificant, but practical nonetheless.

As for Miria's reasons for not using this "Awakened Phantom" against Rigardo, I'm a bit torn. While some have stressed that the fight was not to win, but to survive, the way Rigardo killed the other four captains should have left little doubt in Miria's mind that she wouldn't be knocked out, but minced, so Miria's battle against Rigardo was one to survive by winning, something she was unable to do, but thankfully Clare did for her. However, there's also that pervading sentiment among claymores that they'd rather die than become awakened... So yeah, a bit fuzzy on that issue.

As for Hysteria being the weakest, it's really quite difficult to say. All we can do is speculate. Being matched up against Miria seems to imply that she's the strongest of the three, as it would be logical to pair up the strongest Forbidden One against the strongest (available) Ghost. However, it's also very possible it was solely for Miria to go up against a technique similar to her Phantom. Also, we've been getting a few subtle hints that Roxanne is the strongest of the bunch.

[Gooral]

@Dj0rel
Mostl of the things you've mentioned I've taken into account. You can read my response here.

As for the sword, it's not only mass of the sword that has to be taken into account. The sword sticking out would make transporting of the body more difficult. And why would they leave a sword on a corpse in the first place? Especially now that every Claymore is rebelling so they wouldn't care about putting up with appearances and using it for a grave mark.

As for Raki saying what he said, you're assuming here what he says is a fact and not his assumption. For all he knew she might have played dead and escaped while she was being transported somewhere or something else might have happened.

Besides the things I've mentioned to gernot, Rimuto saying "you have been very helpful" implies she stopped to be helpful so I don't see a reason to leave her alive but injured, especially when they have means to resurrect warriors. Seriously, why would they injure her badly if she had some use? She was the only Claymore still loyal to them and injuring her would make her another enemy. And it was during the time they knew everyone were against them and when they knew prison was being destroyed and Claymores were being released. Which reminds me, since twins went to the surface to fight Roxanne and Raftela wasn't there how could Raki release Raftela? He couldn't escape himself and I doubt he would just stumble upon someone having keys. Like I said, any way I look at it it's stupid.

Also, how come Raki could fight with at least 6 people at once, attacking him from all sides with spears. He destroys spears with ease, is better in fighting than 6 men with spears and can destroy prison as long as he's not in it.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Double-friedman

Some facts
People, please stop being bitchy to other users.
No, Raki is not an hybrid, semi-hybrid, semi-trainee, and Clarice could mop the floor with him if her life depended on it.

...Roflmao, double standard?

We still don't know if Raki is a hybrid or not; no point in being overly-confident when it could easily change next chapter.

Even then, Raki vs Clarice is a battle that's been debated plenty of times and, regardless of who wins, Raki would definitely give her a run for her money -- after all, it takes her summoning her full strength just to fully (temporarily) bleach her hair....Raki and Clarice both seem to inhabit the gray borderline between human and hybrid in that one is stronger and weaker then they were "supposed" to be.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Hysteria might be the weakest opponent of all three

That's the impression I get as well; it used to be the other way around, but now I feel Hysteria is the weakest. Roxanne blows everyone away with having the best potential with her replication, and Cassandra is just a powerhouse that blows everybody away.

Sure, Hysteria isn't weak, and we know she was a powerhouse as well -- but the impression I get was that Cassandra is much stronger then her

Originally Posted by Jean Claymore

Heck, am I the only one who's feeling this thread's been going downhills? Been reading nothing but complaints It's not to be rude or anything, but I honestly don't giva s**t when someone tries to pull out meaningless points or speaks Engrish. Just don't reply if you don't feel like it. Come on ppl, this is Claymore thread... remember?

Roflmao, more double-standards (?)

Not everyone has English as a first-language: it's silly to get annoyed just because of that; "Meaningless Posts" are also subjective.

As for the general "rudeness", this is nothing new; I"m sure we're all big boys and girls here, and every debate/semi-argument has always started and ended on it's own rather peacefully. Truth of the internet, is that it's nigh-impossible to gauge how the other person is truly feeling, which is why it's easy to get overly-defensive.

Personally though, I'm only slightly irked right now because some people seem to think replying to a seemingly-condescending post is to be even more rude then they seem (Like telling somebody they aren't being rude when they say they don't give a shit when someone pulls out "meaningless" posts or has difficulty speaking English) .

Jesus people relax; I don't know if this is the first time several of you have had large (actually, they've been particularly small compared to the big ones Ryus, Gooral, Cyclone, myself, Gangsta and others have had in the past ) discussions like this before, but calm the hell down.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Fermat

As for Miria's reasons for not using this "Awakened Phantom" against Rigardo, I'm a bit torn. While some have stressed that the fight was not to win, but to survive, the way Rigardo killed the other four captains should have left little doubt in Miria's mind that she wouldn't be knocked out, but minced, so Miria's battle against Rigardo was one to survive by winning, something she was unable to do, but thankfully Clare did for her. However, there's also that pervading sentiment among claymores that they'd rather die than become awakened... So yeah, a bit fuzzy on that issue.

I know it sounds cheap but the reason why Miria didn't use her "Awakened Phantom" against Rigaldo is because Yagi wanted Clare to save Miria with her partial awakening. Yagi needed Miria to almost be defeated for Clare's partial awakening to make sense. Rigaldo was just about to kill Miria which made Clare really go over her limit and awaken her legs.
Yagi might have not even thought of Miria using an "Awakened Phantom" against Rigaldo.

Now Clare isn't there to save Miria so she has to fight for herself now.


As for Hysteria's level of power, I believe that she is the strongest out of all three. Her Elegent technique is obviously superior. however, we have not seen how Roxanne fights so nothing is certain. but i still think that Hysteria is the strongest.

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by Gooral

@Dj0rel
Mostl of the things you've mentioned I've taken into account. You can read my response here.

Here's the scenario that answers most of your questions: 1-Fully conscious Raftela is being transported by organization's men; 2-Raki and the trainees run into them during the transportation. With this scanario Raki can conclude that Raftela had been captured, the organization's are aware that shes alive and Raftela is not in prison. In fact if you look carefully there are clues in this chapter that this is exactly what had happened. The moment after we see Raki finishing of the first batch of organization's men he asks "How did these guys manage to capture a warrior?", which implies that that was the very moment he released her (It would be stupid if he asked that questions like half hour later). And if the organization's men thought she was dead wouldn't they than be surprised when they saw that she was alive.

Originally Posted by Gooral

The sword sticking out would make transporting of the body more difficult.

If they had thought she was dead a sword sticking out wouldn't matter much since her transportation would be as simple as "to the nearest window and toss"

Originally Posted by Gooral

And why would they leave a sword on a corpse in the first place?

On the other hand, why would they bother removing the sword from a corpse at all? It has been established that they don't really give a damn about those things anyway.

[Jean Claymore]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Roflmao, more double-standards (?)

Not everyone has English as a first-language: it's silly to get annoyed just because of that; "Meaningless Posts" are also subjective.

As for the general "rudeness", this is nothing new; I"m sure we're all big boys and girls here, and every debate/semi-argument has always started and ended on it's own rather peacefully. Truth of the internet, is that it's nigh-impossible to gauge how the other person is truly feeling, which is why it's easy to get overly-defensive.

Heh, tried to put an end to this... Please don't push me as if I got annoyed because of some "meaningless posts"... I was only trying to stand on topic. Let's leave this here, so they can make up on there own, we are only making things worse butting in imo.

Personally though, I'm only slightly irked right now because some people seem to think replying to a seemingly-condescending post is to be even more rude then they seem (Like telling somebody they aren't being rude when they say they don't give a shit when someone pulls out "meaningless" posts or has difficulty speaking English) . .

OK... you got me here I was rather being sarcastic, but trust me I never meant it.

[Fermat]

Originally Posted by Claymore!

Yagi might have not even thought of Miria using an "Awakened Phantom" against Rigaldo.

I agree. I'm almost certain that Yagi hadn't even conceived the idea of the "Awakened Phantom" way back then. He simply needed to make it appear as if Miria had thought about it and polished the theoretical aspects of the technique over several years. Surely, even the most ardent of Miria fans would find it hard to believe that Miria could invent a technique that could counter Hysteria's Elegance on the spot.

Originally Posted by Claymore!

As for Hysteria's level of power, I believe that she is the strongest out of all three. Her Elegent technique is obvious superior. however, we have not seen how Roxanne fights so nothing is certain. but i still think that Hysteria is the strongest.

I'm inclined to believe that it's between Hysteria and Roxanne, but you're right, there isn't enough data to sufficiently rank the three FOs. We only have the following conclusions:
1) Miria without yoki release > the single digits
2) Cassandra with "Dust Eater" > the single digits
3) Hysteria > Miria with yoki release (but without "Awakened Phantom")
From these, we can only conclude that Hysteria > the single digits (Poor single digits... Pwned by Riful, then by Miria, then by Cassandra, now theoretically by Hysteria too...). We can't compare Hysteria and Cassandra since Miria's power relative to Cassandra is not known. However, even if we did know and it turns out that Cassandra > Miria, then there would still be insufficient data to conclusively rank them since transitivity won't work.

[Shiek927]

Please don't push me as if I got annoyed because of some "meaningless posts"

That's the impression you gave by saying "I don't give a shit"...but yes, there is no point in dragging this out

Heck, there isn't anything to drag out, or too "end"; their really isn't any arguments or anything going on, just normal debating (getting frustrated at eachother is part of the fun ) Often people get a little to excited, but as you and I both said, it's better to just let them be and it will all end on their own.

OK... you got me here I was rather being sarcastic, but trust me I never meant it.

It's fine ; nobody really means it anyway when people get upset, angry, etc at debates on here anyway, no matter how long or how big they are; they are just getting overly-excited and just need a temporary breather, before continuing or stopping and moving on to something else.

Just let everything run it's course, and everything will be fine ; that's the unspoken rule of debating, or even anything, around here.

[haegar]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

It's fine ; nobody really means it anyway when people get upset, angry, etc at debates on here anyway, no matter how long or how big they are; they are just getting overly-excited and just need a temporary breather, before continuing or stopping and moving on to something else.

on that matter, I always like to post some intriguing priscilla fanart:

Spoiler for the prissy spirit of debating...:

haven't even posted yet this month since the week after chap I was rly busy ...and then you already had talked about everything there was to mention pretty much

anyways... all in all was a good chap and miria looks badass.

[Double_friedman]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

...Roflmao, double standard?

We still don't know if Raki is a hybrid or not; no point in being overly-confident when it could easily change next chapter.

In what way I was rude/bitchy? Saying something I think is a fact is being rude/bitchy?

In other topics. Yes, I have the impression Hysteria is the weakest out of the three number ones. She's been attacking Miria like a thousand of times, and the latter doesn't look that injured. Miria is strong, but she's been hit so many times that it seems Hysteria's technique is rather weak. The explanation is that Miria's speed allowed her avoid part of the attack. That's plausible, but Miria's received the attack many times.

Someone said Hysteria was the strongest because she was paired with Miria. I do not see why it would be that way. It was just a "coincidence", since they both had the same attack.

[Fermat]

Originally Posted by Double_friedman

Someone said Hysteria was the strongest because she was paired with Miria. I do not see why it would be that way. It was just a "coincidence", since they both had the same attack.

Er, yeah. I suggested that. I also stated what you used as a counterargument immediately after my own statement.

Originally Posted by Fermat

Being matched up against Miria seems to imply that she's the strongest of the three, as it would be logical to pair up the strongest Forbidden One against the strongest (available) Ghost. However, it's also very possible it was solely for Miria to go up against a technique similar to her Phantom.

They're not identical, i.e. you're saying it was coincidental, while I was implying it was a plot device by Yagi, but I suppose they're close enough, the gist being that Miria was supposed to combat against someone with a technique similar to hers.

[Shiek927]

Roflmao, not sure I get the joke Haeger, but somehow, My Little Pony has become the latest fad miraculously 0_o .

Double-Friedman, it's the context; you said "stop being bitchy to others" and then immediately posted something as "fact" that is still being debated - you came off to me as hypocritical; sorry if I misinterpreted though.

Enough already, let's just talk Claymore

[TheNumberThree]

Originally Posted by Shiek927;3761414We still don't know if Raki [I

is[/I] a hybrid or not; no point in being overly-confident when it could easily change next chapter.

Even then, Raki vs Clarice is a battle that's been debated plenty of times and, regardless of who wins, Raki would definitely give her a run for her money -- after all, it takes her summoning her full strength just to fully (temporarily) bleach her hair....Raki and Clarice both seem to inhabit the gray borderline between human and hybrid in that one is stronger and weaker then they were "supposed" to be.

well, i'm not one to rule things out completely in this manga, but i think if raki was some sort of hybrid, even a weak one, the twins would have noticed...as for him being so strong, it was even stated by him that the reason those guards were probably so awful is because the real battles are left to the warriors

Originally Posted by Claymore!

As for Hysteria's level of power, I believe that she is the strongest out of all three. Her Elegent technique is obvious superior. however, we have not seen how Roxanne fights so nothing is certain. but i still think that Hysteria is the strongest.

i tend to think the same...i maybe wouldn't say she was the strongest just yet, because we don't know how many techniques roxanne has at her disposal...but shes not showing any signs of exhaustion or fatigue in her fight against miria...i'm also underwhelmed by cassandras technique...maybe its that i'm having a hard time picturing just how it works and not seeing it in motion, but i feel like of the 3 resurrected ones, the ghosts would have the best chance of success against her

[Awakened]

First of all, no one had ever seen a partial-awakens fight before Peita. It was Clare's recklessness that made it happen.

Saying that Miria should have partially awaken is been a Monday morning quarterback.

Look what happen to Clare when she did it. It was a death sentence. Clare was willing to die to save her friends. Miria was too weak to die fighting. She usually freeze up when her plans fall apart.

This is Miria's fight, so she is willing to die for her revenge against the Org. She does not know that Helen, Deneven and her fan-girl are coming to save her. Plus she got all the Organization Claymores involve, so she has no choice but to go all out to pay them back for there sacrifices.


There is a simple and easy explanation on why Nina or whatever her name is, is alive. She became Scarface guinea-pig. Guinea-pigs are best when they are alive. Scarface does not like dead specimens, he said so himself.

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

That's the impression I get as well; it used to be the other way around, but now I feel Hysteria is the weakest. Roxanne blows everyone away with having the best potential with her replication, and Cassandra is just a powerhouse that blows everybody away.

Sure, Hysteria isn't weak, and we know she was a powerhouse as well -- but the impression I get was that Cassandra is much stronger then her

I think that Hysteria is far more agile than the other two. Cassandra is strong, but i don't see how she would be able to even reach hysteria. Roxanne on the other hand creeps the hell out of me because something seriously weired is going on with her yoki alignment and copy cat ability. And now she has detected the number 10 raftela i think she is keen to learn her technique. If raftela is good enough to even manipulate cassandra, roxanne will get a serious power up if she is able to assimilate raftela.
Perhaps it has something to do with dying. If roxanne's victim dies she can get the full ability if she is nearby. And raftela is on the verge of dying.
Normally i would say that roxanne needs some time(weeks, months) but who knows...