The Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya [Spoilers Aplenty]

[Roger Rambo]

Haruki does kinda come off as an asshole. For everything Haruhi did, she never implied that she thought Kyon was ugly/unattractive.

Not really complaining on this portrayal, but like someone mentioned way back, I think Haruki will have to do a few more "pleasant" things than Haruhi did, in order to attain the rank of "Delusional insane maniac" instead of "That rat ass Bastard".

The relationship still needs to have an element of Haruki's domineering personality, and Kyonko's distress is frankly amusing.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Haruki does kinda come off as an asshole. For everything Haruhi did, she never implied that she thought Kyon was ugly/unattractive.

Has Haruki done that thus far? I forget.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Not really complaining on this portrayal, but like someone mentioned way back, I think Haruki will have to do a few more "pleasant" things than Haruhi did, in order to attain the rank of "Delusional insane maniac" instead of "That rat ass Bastard".

True enough.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

The relationship still needs to have an element of Haruki's domineering personality, and Kyonko's distress is frankly amusing.

But of course.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Has Haruki done that thus far? I forget.

1.Making Kyonko constantly pay for the outings comes off worse than when Haruhi made Kyon do it.
2.Implying that Kyonko was to heavy.

Just behavior that would make a girl thing a guy was being a dick.

We shouldn't totally abandon this kind of behavior, but Haruki does need to have better behavior than Haruhi in other area's if we want Kyonko to hold the same kind of opinion of him that Kyon held of Haruhi.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

1.Making Kyonko constantly pay for the outings comes off worse than when Haruhi made Kyon do it.

I think this is fine, since Haruhi forced whomever arrived last to pay regardless of who it happened to be; it's not like she was specifically making Kyon pay for her.

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Haruki does kinda come off as an asshole. For everything Haruhi did, she never implied that she thought Kyon was ugly/unattractive.

Not really complaining on this portrayal, but like someone mentioned way back, I think Haruki will have to do a few more "pleasant" things than Haruhi did, in order to attain the rank of "Delusional insane maniac" instead of "That rat ass Bastard".

The relationship still needs to have an element of Haruki's domineering personality, and Kyonko's distress is frankly amusing.

An idea occurs ...

Spoiler for Valentine's day ideas:

Remember the events surrounding Valentine's day, which resulted in Kyon digging up that mysterious artefact he'd eventually give into Tsuruya's safe keeping? In the original timeline, Haruhi makes the guys do heavy digging, but in the end gives them Valentine's day chocolate.

Instead of that, Haruki could order the girls to 'Make big, whopping lunches for strong men. You'll see why.' Kyonko and Itsuko would have to be present at the dig, but might be relegated to the task of fetching tools, bringing in food and/or perhaps moving a little dirt. (Though we'll need to think of some reason for Haruki to dig, since he'll know there's no Valentine's day chocolate buried there.)
Kyonko could occasionally complain - to herself - that on top of the whole multiple Mitsuuruus and the digging, she has to somehow find time to deal with the chocolate issue: make or buy, and when?
Come Valentine's day, Haruki surprises her by springing a very nice White Day present on her. If Kyonko remarks it's early and she hasn't given him anything yet:

Haruki: "So? Does that mean you don't want it?"
Kyonko: "I didn't say that. Wow, I've actually been looking for one of these ..."
Haruki: "So take it, take it! It's for White Day, alright?"
Kyonko: "Well ... Thank you." *slight blush*
Haruki: "That's fine, it's fine. After all, you're ... a valued member of the SOS-dan." *also shows a slight blush; peeks at Kyonko, who is smiling; hurriedly looks away*
Kyonko: "Well. Seeing as you are the danchou and all ... here." *hands Haruki chocolate*
Haruki: "... Thanks." *slight blush; stands there turning the chocolate in his hands* "Well ... see you tomorrow." *turns around and walks away, shoulders slightly hunched*
Kyonko: *still smiling softly* "Yeah ... tomorrow."

Next day, have Kyonko passing a classroom where Haruki is talking to some other male students, who are bragging about their haul of chocolate.
Haruki: "Idiots! It's not about quantity, it's quality, quality!"
Some guy: "Does that mean you didn't get any, Suzumiya?"
*laughter; Haruki remains unruffled and superior*
Haruki: "Idiot. I got some very good chocolate. Yeah. It was ..." *notices Kyonko in the door opening, looking at them; slight blush; defiant expression* "... it was delicious."

Later, on White Day, Kyonko discovers four neatly wrapped packages on her desk.
Kyonko: "Lessee, who are these from ...? One from Asahina-sempa ... May all your White Days be white ... Does that mean he thinks White Day is like Christmas? Is that why he packed this cute scarf for me? One from Nagato ... In appreciative compensation for your gift ... Nice, Swiss white chocolate. Nice purple cow on the wrapper. One from ... Koizumi?! Sweets for the sweet? Oy, why are you getting ideas, just because I let you taste the chocolate I was making, you idiot? What's this? Ribbons and a set of earrings? Ugh ... Now I can't not wear these ... Clip-on earrings? Why do you know so well that I haven't had them pierced? Now who is this last ..."

Kyonko turns around.
Kyonko: "Oy, Haruki. You already gave me something for White Day, remember?"
Haruki: *looking out the window* "Don't be stupid, White Day is today. Why would I give you a seasonal gift out of season? Now open it, open it."
Kyonko opens gift.
Kyonko: "Haruki."
Haruki peeks at her; Kyonko is smiling softly again.
Kyonko: "Thanks."
Haruki blushes, scowls fiercely, looks determinedly out the window.

Opinions?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

I think this is fine, since Haruhi forced whomever arrived last to pay regardless of who it happened to be; it's not like she was specifically making Kyon pay for her.

There are ... different schools of thought on that subject.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

I think this is fine, since Haruhi forced whomever arrived last to pay regardless of who it happened to be; it's not like she was specifically making Kyon pay for her.

That's exactly it. She'd make anyone pay regardless of whoever was last. She just never wants to pay herself because she spends all her money on fetishy costumes.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

2.Implying that Kyonko was too heavy.

Sorry, when did he say this? I don't remember writing it.

Originally Posted by Aebliss

*snip*

Works well, but they still haven't done a White Day story in the original... yet.

[Cat Megex]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Spoiler for Valentine's day ideas:

Remember the events surrounding Valentine's day, which resulted in Kyon digging up that mysterious artefact he'd eventually give into Tsuruya's safe keeping? In the original timeline, Haruhi makes the guys do heavy digging, but in the end gives them Valentine's day chocolate.

Instead of that, Haruki could order the girls to 'Make big, whopping lunches for strong men. You'll see why.' Kyonko and Itsuko would have to be present at the dig, but might be relegated to the task of fetching tools, bringing in food and/or perhaps moving a little dirt. (Though we'll need to think of some reason for Haruki to dig, since he'll know there's no Valentine's day chocolate buried there.)
Kyonko could occasionally complain - to herself - that on top of the whole multiple Mitsuuruus and the digging, she has to somehow find time to deal with the chocolate issue: make or buy, and when?
Come Valentine's day, Haruki surprises her by springing a very nice White Day present on her. If Kyonko remarks it's early and she hasn't given him anything yet:

Haruki: "So? Does that mean you don't want it?"
Kyonko: "I didn't say that. Wow, I've actually been looking for one of these ..."
Haruki: "So take it, take it! It's for White Day, alright?"
Kyonko: "Well ... Thank you." *slight blush*
Haruki: "That's fine, it's fine. After all, you're ... a valued member of the SOS-dan." *also shows a slight blush; peeks at Kyonko, who is smiling; hurriedly looks away*
Kyonko: "Well. Seeing as you are the danchou and all ... here." *hands Haruki chocolate*
Haruki: "... Thanks." *slight blush; stands there turning the chocolate in his hands* "Well ... see you tomorrow." *turns around and walks away, shoulders slightly hunched*
Kyonko: *still smiling softly* "Yeah ... tomorrow."

Next day, have Kyonko passing a classroom where Haruki is talking to some other male students, who are bragging about their haul of chocolate.
Haruki: "Idiots! It's not about quantity, it's quality, quality!"
Some guy: "Does that mean you didn't get any, Suzumiya?"
*laughter; Haruki remains unruffled and superior*
Haruki: "Idiot. I got some very good chocolate. Yeah. It was ..." *notices Kyonko in the door opening, looking at them; slight blush; defiant expression* "... it was delicious."

Later, on White Day, Kyonko discovers four neatly wrapped packages on her desk.
Kyonko: "Lessee, who are these from ...? One from Asahina-sempa ... May all your White Days be white ... Does that mean he thinks White Day is like Christmas? Is that why he packed this cute scarf for me? One from Nagato ... In appreciative compensation for your gift ... Nice, Swiss white chocolate. Nice purple cow on the wrapper. One from ... Koizumi?! Sweets for the sweet? Oy, why are you getting ideas, just because I let you taste the chocolate I was making, you idiot? What's this? Ribbons and a set of earrings? Ugh ... Now I can't not wear these ... Clip-on earrings? Why do you know so well that I haven't had them pierced? Now who is this last ..."

Kyonko turns around.
Kyonko: "Oy, Haruki. You already gave me something for White Day, remember?"
Haruki: *looking out the window* "Don't be stupid, White Day is today. Why would I give you a seasonal gift out of season? Now open it, open it."
Kyonko opens gift.
Kyonko: "Haruki."
Haruki peeks at her; Kyonko is smiling softly again.
Kyonko: "Thanks."
Haruki blushes, scowls fiercely, looks determinedly out the window.

Opinions?

Interesting, but...slightly too shoujo-y, perhaps?

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

That's exactly it. She'd make anyone pay regardless of whoever was last. She just never wants to pay herself because she spends all her money on fetishy costumes.

Kyon just has craptacular luck.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Sorry, when did he say this? I don't remember writing it.

Wouldn't make much sense anyway. Haruhi is already ridiculously strong for a girl. Imagine what kind of beast Haruki must be.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Works well, but they still haven't done a White Day story in the original... yet.

This story's gonna be the trickiest methinks...

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Works well, but they still haven't done a White Day story in the original... yet.

Nor did they have Kyon smacking Haruhi in the face with his lunchbox. *shrug* In the absence of original material -- which, given the licensing and the expected delays, may take years to get to us -- there's nothing wrong with us inserting a few original scenes to make Seitenkan uniquely ours, is there?

Originally Posted by Cat Megex

Interesting, but...slightly too shoujo-y, perhaps?

Perhaps. Though it would be but a few scenes in the whole madness that is SZnY. If necessary, it can be edited.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Nor did they have Kyon smacking Haruhi in the face with his lunchbox. *shrug* In the absence of original material -- which, given the licensing and the expected delays, may take years to get to us -- there's nothing wrong with us inserting a few original scenes to make Seitenkan uniquely ours, is there?

I wouldn't think so.

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Perhaps. Though it would be but a few scenes in the whole madness that is SZnY. If necessary, it can be edited.

We shall see.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

That's exactly it. She'd make anyone pay regardless of whoever was last.

Which is why I'm not sure you can justify changing this because of the gender reversal, as the matter of gender was irrelevant even in the original.

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Which is why I'm not sure you can justify changing this because of the gender reversal, as the matter of gender was irrelevant even in the original.

But it would be a good way to make Haruki look not so much like a jerk if, just now and then, he steps in and says: "Well, I'll fine you later. I'll be paying this time, just so you don't completely run out of allowance and run off begging and crying to your parents, or they'll try to make you stay home instead of coming to the Brigade. Make no mistake, in any battle I will emerge victorious, but there is such a thing as good manners."
Kyonko: "Oy. I have to hear that from you?"
Haruki: "So you want to pay the fine right now, after all?"
Kyonko: "..."

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Which is why I'm not sure you can justify changing this because of the gender reversal, as the matter of gender was irrelevant even in the original.

I'm not suggesting that we do.

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Nor did they have Kyon smacking Haruhi in the face with his lunchbox. *shrug* In the absence of original material -- which, given the licensing and the expected delays, may take years to get to us -- there's nothing wrong with us inserting a few original scenes to make Seitenkan uniquely ours, is there?

Good point.

Originally Posted by Aebliss

But it would be a good way to make Haruki look not so much like a jerk if, just now and then, he steps in and says: "Well, I'll fine you later. I'll be paying this time, just so you don't completely run out of allowance and run off begging and crying to your parents, or they'll try to make you stay home instead of coming to the Brigade. Make no mistake, in any battle I will emerge victorious, but there is such a thing as good manners."
Kyonko: "Oy. I have to hear that from you?"
Haruki: "So you want to pay the fine right now, after all?"
Kyonko: "..."

Good idea again.

[Kagedanji]

When thinking of Mitsuru's voice, I thought of Quatre(?) from Gundam Wing.

I still think name change is in order. Because in my mind, THIS will always be Mitsuru.

Spoiler for MITSURU-SENPAI!:

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

The two times Kyon arrives at the meeting first, he still ends up paying(Volume 2 prologue was because Haruhi "forgot" to bring money, Volume 9 instance they all paid because everyone aside from Kyon "conveniently" arrived at the same time). That rule, as with most of Haruhi's rules, is in place simply to make Kyon do whatever she wants.



As for the Valentine's thing, I have a rather simple solution. Since Volume 7 was pretty much a split between Mikuru's time traveling and the Organization's "We're everywhere at all times" vibe already, just have Itsuko set up the whole Valentine's Day event.
If Haruki is anything like Haruhi, he'll believe anything she tells him. He might very well dig with full enthusiasm expecting some ancient treasure, only to see a box with a bunch of chocolates from Itsuko and Kyonko addressed to him, Mitsuuru and Yuuki. Kyonko obviously has no actual knowledge of this, as it was all Itsuko's doing(just for fun, the following lines could be included in a private conversation between them afterwards: "I might ask for a 'favor' in return." "You're kidding, right?").
It might take some working, but it's a possible solution for a far-off problem.

*e* wait... just realized why it was brought up... umm...
K: "What's this for?"
H: "I heard that in America, guys are supposed to give girls chocolates on Valentine's Day"
K: "Maybe, but we live in Japan."
H: "You don't want it, then? Fine. I'll eat it myself." (in a bit of a teasing manner)
K: {insert whatever response you think is appropriate}

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

The two times Kyon arrives at the meeting first, he still ends up paying(Volume 2 prologue was because Haruhi "forgot" to bring money, Volume 9 instance they all paid because everyone aside from Kyon "conveniently" arrived at the same time). That rule, as with most of Haruhi's rules, is in place simply to make Kyon do whatever she wants.

I still don't think we should remove it from our rewrites.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

The two times Kyon arrives at the meeting first, he still ends up paying(Volume 2 prologue was because Haruhi "forgot" to bring money, Volume 9 instance they all paid because everyone aside from Kyon "conveniently" arrived at the same time). That rule, as with most of Haruhi's rules, is in place simply to make Kyon do whatever she wants.

Correct. It always came off as some weird control game on Haruhi's part.

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

As for the Valentine's thing, I have a rather simple solution. Since Volume 7 was pretty much a split between Mikuru's time traveling and the Organization's "We're everywhere at all times" vibe already, just have Itsuko set up the whole Valentine's Day event.
If Haruki is anything like Haruhi, he'll believe anything she tells him. He might very well dig with full enthusiasm expecting some ancient treasure, only to see a box with a bunch of chocolates from Itsuko and Kyonko addressed to him, Mitsuuru and Yuuki. Kyonko obviously has no actual knowledge of this, as it was all Itsuko's doing(just for fun, the following lines could be included in a private conversation between them afterwards: "I might ask for a 'favor' in return." "You're kidding, right?").
It might take some working, but it's a possible solution for a far-off problem.

Nice idea, but why would Haruki be digging in the first place then? The whole "lets dig for treasure" escapade was concocted by Haruhi as a way for her to give Kyon chocolate in a completely platonic manner (so of course she conscripts Mikuru and Yuki for her plot, and throws in Itsuki as a recipient to avoid Harem implications). Her main objective regarding the set of dig outs, was directly related to valentines day. Considering the silly amount of detail she put into the plan, she was obviously worried about it.

Haruki will probably also be concerned about it, he will be in an interesting situation that neither he or Haruhi had ever been in, where he has to sit around on his ass staring at a dead tired Kyonko (who's dealing with time traveled Mitsuru), and wondering if he's going to get any chocolate. Without intervention, he probably isn't (and that kids, is a bad end), because frankly Kyonko won't remember about it, and she doesn't seem emotional enough about Haruki romantically to keep V-day in mind.

And even Haruki isn't stupid enough to not realize how pathetic he'd look ordering Kyonko to make him chocolate.

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

*e* wait... just realized why it was brought up... umm...
K: "What's this for?"
H: "I heard that in America, guys are supposed to give girls chocolates on Valentine's Day"
K: "Maybe, but we live in Japan."
H: "You don't want it, then? Fine. I'll eat it myself." (in a bit of a teasing manner)
K: {insert whatever response you think is appropriate}

That doesn't seem to quite work. Japan has developed it's own well established rules of valentines day. Girls give guys chocolate on V-day, and guys return the favor on white day.

Haruhi for a renegade outcast that wants to do things differently, is surprisingly conformist (in her own way) to rules governing holidays. I doubt Haruki would do something like this. And besides, it wouldn't change the fact that Kyonko didn't get him anything.

And this method also completely bypasses the lovely opportunity to have Haruki squirm a little nervously. For all the extra crap he makes Kyonko go through, he should suffer a little

[Cat Megex]

Hm...have another possibility for Itsuko's voice actor: Atsuko Tanaka. She can do a fairly foxy voice (although my example is a catgirl: Karula/Karura from Utawarerumono).

...Now that I think about it, that voice would probably fit Itsuko fairly well, although it might need to be either slightly higher or slightly softer.

Some examples from youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADpQbxaYTiM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqGTD8j2Zc

[besieger]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

That doesn't seem to quite work. Japan has developed it's own well established rules of valentines day. Girls give guys chocolate on V-day, and guys return the favor on white day.

Haruhi for a renegade outcast that wants to do things differently, is surprisingly conformist (in her own way) to rules governing holidays. I doubt Haruki would do something like this. And besides, it wouldn't change the fact that Kyonko didn't get him anything.

And this method also completely bypasses the lovely opportunity to have Haruki squirm a little nervously. For all the extra crap he makes Kyonko go through, he should suffer a little

I heartily agree with what's written here. The rules of V day is so entrenched in Japan and Korea that it's unlikely that even Haruki will try to change it.

[Discreet]

So why not Itsuko have everything set up? She's part of the Organization and they'd know how important it is for Haruki's state of mind that he receive a chocolate from Kyonko.

The treasure-digging, instead of being an excuse to give chocolate, can just be an excuse to spend the day together.