Valvrave the Liberator - General Anime Discussion

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by theflyingturkey

It isn't. (At least for my arguments. I think.)

Just that some people can tolerate some of the failings of the series better than the others and find it's positives to be legitimately entertaining enough to outweigh the problems with they have with the series.

Speaking for myself, I have seen so many anime and the associated Clichés that the Clichés themselves disappeared; I no longer SEE the things that are similar between one anime and another. They are now just background noise. I am not bothered by what I no longer detect.

Instead, when I see VVV, I only see what they did that was different. A Japanese proxy that is actually officially Japanese, a mystery mecha show where the studio aim for surprises, and enemy grunts with working weapons and armour.

It's one's choice how to enjoy anime; for example, many fans ended up unable to enjoy anime that are set in highschool because they feel it is in too many anime already. I say that's unfortunate. VVV is doing many things differently, you just had to pay attention to those things.

[Kirarakim]

Well for me this series is so cliche that I feel I can already predict much of what is going to happen.

I mean I already predicted what was going to happen with Shouko. It wasn't because I am good at guessing these things, it was because it was so obvious.

I fully understand that people know exactly what this anime is and can still enjoy it. I enjoy watching it to because well it's certainly not boring & I don't hate any character yet. That's probably the nicest thing I can personally say about it though.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Well for me this series is so cliche that I feel I can already predict much of what is going to happen.

I mean I already predicted what was going to happen with Shouko. It wasn't because I am good at guessing these things, it was because it was so obvious.

I fully understand that people know exactly what this anime is and can still enjoy it. I enjoy watching it to because well it's certainly not boring & I don't hate any character yet. That's probably the nicest thing I can personally say about it though.

I doubt you predicted she would come back alive in ep 2 though.

And I would love you to predict what happens in ep 3. Because so far, no one predicted Ep 1's vampire and ep 2's body swap.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I doubt you predicted she would come back alive in ep 2 though.

No I predicted exactly what was going to happen. I didn't say what episode, I said she would be alive and that the main character would not be able to be with her because of what he became.

I said it in this very thread after the first episode aired.

I never said I was able to predict everything. But this series also relies on plot twists that come out of nowhere just to surprise the audience. That doesn't make your story any less cliche.


edit: Look I am not trying to bash this anime. I am sure it will be fun (in a bombastic sort of way) to watch and there are no elements that I find really objectionable, otherwise I wouldn't have watched episode 2.

But this series really does feel like a checklist anime to me, even if it is a very well produced and entertaining checklist anime.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

No I predicted exactly what was going to happen. I didn't say what episode, I said she would be alive and that the main character would not be able to be with her because of what he became.

I said it in this very thread after the first episode aired.

I never said I was able to predict everything. But this series also relies on plot twists that come out of nowhere just to surprise the audience. That doesn't make your story any less cliche.

But you see, how was Sunrise suppose to surprise the audience without building false expectations?

You NEED the cliches. VVV needed the audience to have assumptions about the show via familiar elements. Because if you don't think you know where the story is going, you can't be surprised when you guessed wrong.

An entirely original show can't surprise anyone, as there are no expectations. It is when you have something that appeared familiar, that you make assumptions about, that allows Sunrise to hit you with a curve-ball.

You guessed that Shoko lived, but only 50% of people thought that. I say that's pretty high percentage of people surprised.

I guess my point is, cliche is required for VVV. It's what keeps the audience guessing.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You guessed that Shoko lived, but only 50% of people thought that. I say that's pretty high percentage of people surprised.

50%? I only remember 1 person kept going about how we can't be sure Shouko is dead. Most assumed she's dead, mostly because of Saki's existence.

I was being skeptical and just looking forward to which choice they would chose and how will it develop further. Well, I did wish she stays dead because I was worry that they could revive her later for stupid rival stuff, but I didn't expect they just revive her to tell us everything Haruto did is in vain, so I'm fine with it.

[Kanon]

The real surprise for me would have been to have Shouko remain dead. Even if we assume Shouko coming back in episode 2 was a surprise, the problem is that it's a terrible surprise. She was just hiding in a car all along and only called Haruto after it was too late (why did she wait so long to call?). Her fake death ended up being nothing more than a bad plot device. This doesn't strike me as the best way to start a story.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I guess my point is, cliche is required for VVV. It's what keeps the audience guessing.

Perhaps cliche is the wrong word to use. Everything is cliche to a degree and nothing is truly original.

I am going to use my "checklist" term instead. It just feels to me that VVV takes all these individual ingredients because people like each ingredient but they don't really question if all these ingredients together will make a tasty soup.

As for surprises oh I am absolutely sure there will be more plot twists. But I don't necessarily consider "surprising your audience" as the pinnacle of good storytelling.

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

50%? I only remember 1 person kept going about how we can't be sure Shouko is dead.

I highly doubt I was the only person who guessed that she was still obviously alive. They didn't even show a body.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

50%? I only remember 1 person kept going about how we can't be sure Shouko is dead. Most assumed she's dead, mostly because of Saki's existence.

I was being skeptical and just looking forward to which choice they would chose and how will it develop further. Well, I did wish she stays dead because I was worry that they could revive her later for stupid rival stuff, but I didn't expect they just revive her to tell us everything Haruto did is in vain, so I'm fine with it.

The 50% estimation came from... you know, that other site-that-shall-not-be-named.

Anyway, that's my position on this show. That to have abnormal events, you need normalcy preceding it.

[Accelolita_]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

50%? I only remember 1 person kept going about how we can't be sure Shouko is dead. Most assumed she's dead, mostly because of Saki's existence.

I was being skeptical and just looking forward to which choice they would chose and how will it develop further. Well, I did wish she stays dead because I was worry that they could revive her later for stupid rival stuff, but I didn't expect they just revive her to tell us everything Haruto did is in vain, so I'm fine with it.

I actually guessed already that she's still alive. She's the male lead's love interest (and was in the op lol). But I hoped she would stay dead as well since it would've been too obvious for her to be actually still alive (you know the anime/manga rule: no corpse, no death). In the end, though, I was happy she's still alive since she's kinda cute xD
(and I actually felt bad hoping she should stay dead )

[creb]

I think the real question is how pony-tail man went from his NEET-cave to a car in the middle of the battlefield.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The real surprise for me would have been to have Shouko remain dead. Even if we assume Shouko coming back in episode 2 was a surprise, the problem is that it's a terrible surprise. She was just hiding in a car all along and only called Haruto after it was too late (why did she wait so long to call?). Her fake death ended up being nothing more than a bad plot device. This doesn't strike me as the best way to start a story.

Not the best way to start a Serious story.

But by the end of ep 2, we know this isn't about some grimdark edgy show about someone wanting to be a Dark Crusader.

[Haak]

I'm pretty sure this is trying to be serious. It's just that people are really hoping it's just joking.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Haak

I'm pretty sure this is trying to be serious. It's just that people are really hoping it's just joking.

It's not a comedy. But clearly the entire show is trying to be extreme and out of left field. You should have noticed when the schoolboy flew a helicopter on a motorbike licence.

[Haak]

That's the biggest hint?

I'm pretty sure if the show didn't want to be taken seriously, you would've used the more egregious example of a schoolboy flying a giant robot with no license.

[LostSome]

So far, I`m seeing this like D.Gray Man : Dark story and themes with a lot of mysteries and yet... It`s totally wacky and over the top.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Haak

That's the biggest hint?

I'm pretty sure if the show didn't want to be taken seriously, you would've used the more egregious example of a schoolboy flying a giant robot with no license.

Actually schoolboys are more likely to pilot giant robots than any other group. And there is always the vampire blood excuse.

What is more unusual is having the main girl come out of the buried car with a huge grin on her face. That was clearly the animators being cheeky.

[Renegade334]

I'm really starting to hate the word vampire - I don't think Haruto's teeth even managed to break L-Elf's skin, so one has to wonder whether there is genuine blood-sucking or if it's just some form of animaneural transference allowed by direct contact between the subject's teeth (which are very close to the brain, the seat of the mind) and the target's skin.

Since the scriptwriter is Ichiro Okouchi, I suppose it's kinda comparable to Marianne vi Britannia's mind-transfer Geass - except that this time it doesn't require eye contact, but teeth contact in order to rewire the target's brain (I already said this in an earlier post, but if Haruto has nanomachines or a retrovirus in his bloodstream, then L-Elf is already infected [Haruto's mouth was dripping with his own blood, after all] and probably could pilot the Valvrave - that is, if it hasn't already self-customized itself to only allow Haruto as its pilot).


Anyway, I don't think Haruto will become a new Lelouch or Shinn - he's more of a 1st season GSEED!Kira Yamato, a guy stuck between a rock (Dorussia) and a hard place (ARUS), trying to find a place to call home (Orb Emirates JIOR) and keeping his emotions intact.

I hope that the next episode will actually reveal (or, at least, hint at) WHO actually built the Valvrave. The Dorussians were quite perplexed at the VVV's sophistication, hinting at a more exotic/abnormal origin. Plus, we need a source for those power-ups, right?

[Xander]

As long as we are throwing around guesses and speculations...I believe that Haruto's body-hijacking (actual body-switching is unconfirmed) power is merely the tip of the iceberg. If that -plus regenerating his injuries- was really all the injection of blood/cells/nanomachines or whatever did to him, it doesn't sound like a big deal. I imagine he will get other side effects and abilities sooner or later.

[kk2extreme]

I wonder how much material is needed for a dyson sphere to work for our sun.