Valvrave the Liberator - General Anime Discussion

[askara]

i really hoped shouko died so he become a badass not he is just a wimp again because he cant be with her now that he is a "monster". boho i mean i can understand if you puke turd out of mouth, grow dicks all over you body or have 6 pair of nipples but if you looks 100% like normal human plus supper power? i am pretty sure that make you more attractive than repulse people.

and that ability?? i am sure you can let her experience a new world, wink wink. XD

ps black hair girl > Shouko

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by askara

i really hoped shouko died so he become a badass not he is just a wimp again because he cant be with her now that he is a "monster". boho i mean i can understand if you puke turd out of mouth, grow dicks all over you body or have 6 pair of nipples but if you looks 100% like normal human plus supper power? i am pretty sure that make you more attractive than repulse people.

and that ability?? i am sure you can let her experience a new world, wink wink. XD

ps black hair girl > Shouko

You killed a bunch of people now for nothing the guys earlier he could have told to surrender the ones he killed trying to take the mech back,Hijacked some else's body and made him kill his friends. You healed and came back to life from being shot.

Ya he is a monster now I kinda feel bad for him where do you go from here your whole reason to fight has been tossed out the window its like some kinda sick joke. He is much to young to look at the bigger picture and fight for all humanity even Amuro needed Bright to bitch slap him to see that picture.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I can't tell if this show is terrible or the best ever.

Awesome concept; my main gripe is the execution is questionable. The main character didn't act at all like how he should have when he discovered Shouko was still alive. It makes his earlier determination and purported strong feelings for her seem shallow. For a guy that was willing to kill for revenge, it seems completely contradictory to not express his feelings. Makes it like everything up until that point was pointless, and now he's got a complete regression of his character back to a wimp. What. The. Fuck.

I HATE character regression.

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by askara

ps black hair girl > Shouko

well.... I agree

the possible development is Haruto run away because he's being a monster and the black hair girl is the one who comforted him and accepted him...
hehehe

that's truly what Sunrise always do

about episode 2 :

good one... I think L-elf will shoot inside the Valvrave but he's still considering his safety inside Valvrave
I wonder what will A-drei do to him in next episode

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

The main character didn't act at all like how he should have when he discovered Shouko was still alive. It makes his earlier determination and purported strong feelings for her seem shallow. For a guy that was willing to kill for revenge, it seems completely contradictory to not express his feelings. Makes it like everything up until that point was pointless, and now he's got a complete regression of his character back to a wimp. What. The. Fuck.

I HATE character regression.

This is a very stupid and silly show, but it's not a case of "character regression" at all.

First episode: The main character was rather mild-mannered, but he still took the initiative to try and confess. It simply didn't happen since he was interrupted by events beyond his control. Nevertheless, his mind had already been made up. All other things remaining the same, would he have confessed? Yes.

Second episode: What actually stopped him from confessing this time? The realization that his personal circumstances have changed. He is worried about involving her with someone like him, who at the very least doesn't seem to be entirely human anymore. Did he have any reason to think of himself as a "monster" before the second half of episode one? No.

I'm not exactly the biggest fan of this turn of events either, but even I can't call it a "regression" in all honesty.

[joshuafaramir]

ALL HAIL MECHA ANIMES... even something like a Vibrator-sounding-anime. Anyhow, shit upon the MC for biting the neck of a bishounen... I mean, who the hell in their right and straight mind would do that? So very.... queer.

[articuzwolf]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I wonder what will A-drei do to him in next episode

getting obsessive to L-elf like orange-kun to Lelouch

oh the irony...

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by joshuafaramir

ALL HAIL MECHA ANIMES... even something like a Vibrator-sounding-anime. Anyhow, shit upon the MC for biting the neck of a bishounen... I mean, who the hell in their right and straight mind would do that? So very.... queer.

Bold words are the problem. I didn't see anyone who got stabbed, then shot and still have straight mind either.

[FiveOVER]

To those who are not happy with shoko's seeming death and revival, here's a new perspective.

- It gives the mc a reason to fight. Unless you want reasons like "those are the bad guys", "I want to be a hero", "I have to save my friends", "I'm just following orders", "my body got controlled by some mystical power" which I have no qualms with at all, but you haters just have to call them cheapskate and dismiss them as silly. Sothe motive as revenge is definitely a hit.

- Second, it gives the discontinuity when the students cheer for haruto's victory, while haruto laments her death. This nails down the idea that no one but haruto can understand his grief. Remember, robbing tears from the audience is clearly not the author's motive. His motive is to show us the isolation of those different/ gifted compared to others.

- Third, her death was entirely the reason why haruto underwent such a drasic change in just the span of two episods. He was a pacifist, he experienced the reality of war, agreed with l-elf and admitted his mistake. He then understands the gravity of the situation in war. He knows its killed or be killed and didn't hesitate to kill the soldiers. He even learned how precious shoko is to him and adamant to go back to her even in tha hopeless situation.

- Fourth, her death brought the chance for saki to act and established a prelude to a love triangle. If she weren't "dead" , saki probably will never have the chance to act on her feelings.

- fifth, it gives us a chance to see our mc in dilemma while he deal with his identity crisis and his feelings for shoko. Only when he realized that shoko is alive that the impact of losing his humanity hit him. This give arise to more character developement and again the author tells you this is not your typical happy story.

- sixth, this is my favourite point. This is when the story truly establishes that its a dark story through and through. The viewers realize that haruto just lost his humanity for nothing. Shoko was alive all along and he is being thrown into this unreasonable situation just because he acted rashly in he heat of the situation.

[Aquaman OS]

It just shows he's not taking the whole war thing lightly. He allowed himself to become a monster and killed a bunch of people in angry revenge. Revenge that wasn't even necessery. While it seemed like everything was alright, he realized that he saw a side of himself he didn't even know he had.

If anything its nice that he's actually thinking about the morality and what's going on, instead of acting like a wimp who thinks he can stay out of the war despite having fought in it and its right at his front door, or a guy who takes to killing without a care.

Now if in the next episode he's swearing to never pilot Valvrave again. Then we can complain.

[HandofFate]

with the many players and sides emerging, I too see a Code Geass thing coming...
I guess I kind of did enjoy CG, but goddamn, did I start hating every single character in that series.

I have a feeling I'm going to be that way here too.

Guess I can look forward to h-doujins of Shoko and the MC body-swapping with eachother and h-scenes of that. Or MC in Shoko's body and gets kidnapped by a bunch of men on the enemy side or something....

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Bold words are the problem. I didn't see anyone who got stabbed, then shot and still have straight mind either.

then apparently you never played devil may cry

back to the topic about shoko and the black haired girl, it looks to me that the black haired girl had feelings for the MC since before shoko "died", but didn't act on them because its obvious there all friends and shoko has feelings for the main character. I mean she was more open and talkative to the main character after shoko "died" and when she was confirmed alive sge went back to be silent, though I have a feeling she will ry to closer as the series goes on, but as of right now she is going to let shoko take the lead

[larethian]

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

- sixth, this is my favourite point. This is when the story truly establishes that its a dark story through and through. The viewers realize that haruto just lost his humanity for nothing. Shoko was alive all along and he is being thrown into this unreasonable situation just because he acted rashly in he heat of the situation.

Mhm, this is the part that reeks of Code Geass.
As long as it doesn't have him kill off those people close to him that he doesn't really intend to kill, I'm still ok with this.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

To those who are not happy with shoko's seeming death and revival, here's a new perspective.

I wish I could put my thinking into good text like what how you did.

Now I'm just curious about the origin of the Valvrave.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

To those who are not happy with shoko's seeming death and revival, here's a new perspective.

- It gives the mc a reason to fight. Unless you want reasons like "those are the bad guys", "I want to be a hero", "I have to save my friends", "I'm just following orders", "my body got controlled by some mystical power" which I have no qualms with at all, but you haters just have to call them cheapskate and dismiss them as silly. Sothe motive as revenge is definitely a hit.

- Second, it gives the discontinuity when the students cheer for haruto's victory, while haruto laments her death. This nails down the idea that no one but haruto can understand his grief. Remember, robbing tears from the audience is clearly not the author's motive. His motive is to show us the isolation of those different/ gifted compared to others.

- Third, her death was entirely the reason why haruto underwent such a drasic change in just the span of two episods. He was a pacifist, he experienced the reality of war, agreed with l-elf and admitted his mistake. He then understands the gravity of the situation in war. He knows its killed or be killed and didn't hesitate to kill the soldiers. He even learned how precious shoko is to him and adamant to go back to her even in tha hopeless situation.

- Fourth, her death brought the chance for saki to act and established a prelude to a love triangle. If she weren't "dead" , saki probably will never have the chance to act on her feelings.

This much I largely, if not entirely, agree with (I especially agree with your 2nd point, by the way; very well-said).

This is why I had no problem with Shoko dying. My hope was that this would result in a certain type of protagonist that we haven't seen much of in mecha anime as of late. There's been plenty of Kira Yamatos - Mecha male leads that struggle mightily with the idea of killing enemy soldiers in battle, and who take a generally pacificistic approach to things.

It might be nice, for a change, to have a mecha protagonist like Heero Yuy of Gundam Wing. Somebody who's totally cold, efficient, ruthless, and willing to kill for a cause that he unshakeably believes in. And the revenge motive is emotionally compelling to me as said cause, giving it a good and strong "Die Hard" flavor, imo. Gundam meets Die Hard strikes me as an awesome anime series concept. Haruto was heading that way for awhile.

- fifth, it gives us a chance to see our mc in dilemma while he deal with his identity crisis and his feelings for shoko. Only when he realized that shoko is alive that the impact of losing his humanity hit him. This give arise to more character developement and again the author tells you this is not your typical happy story.

- sixth, this is my favourite point. This is when the story truly establishes that its a dark story through and through. The viewers realize that haruto just lost his humanity for nothing. Shoko was alive all along and he is being thrown into this unreasonable situation just because he acted rashly in he heat of the situation.

The "lost his humanity" bit honestly strikes me as silly psycho-babble, to be blunt but perfectly honest about it.

He talks like a human, he looks like a human, he thinks like a human (plenty of humans can become ruthlessly efficient soldiers, at least for a time), he has very human emotions. In any meaningful sense, he doesn't seem to me to have lost his humanity at all.

In fact, ironically, it's him angsting over his "lost humanity" that shows how very human he still is. Only a very human person would engage in such self-reflection, imo.


With that in mind, I would have found it more effectively dark if Shoko had been allowed to stay dead. That would have been ballsy.

[theflyingturkey]

Originally Posted by FiveOVER

To those who are not happy with shoko's seeming death and revival, here's a new perspective.

- It gives the mc a reason to fight. Unless you want reasons like "those are the bad guys", "I want to be a hero", "I have to save my friends", "I'm just following orders", "my body got controlled by some mystical power" which I have no qualms with at all, but you haters just have to call them cheapskate and dismiss them as silly. Sothe motive as revenge is definitely a hit.

Shouko was initially playing dead just so the show could get Haruto into the VVV. Plenty of people hoped she was dead not thought she was dead, for narrative reasons. Her revival was so mind blastingly casual that the scene in the first ep felt rather needless. Haruto lost his motive of vengeance in the second episode, but I'll refrain from speculating what his motives would be the next time he gets in VVV. Episode 3 will clear that up for me.

- Fourth, her death brought the chance for saki to act and established a prelude to a love triangle. If she weren't "dead" , saki probably will never have the chance to act on her feelings.

Not every action done by a heroine is driven by romance. Actually that goes for every single human being. It was never implied that Saki was habouring any romantic feelings whatsoever. Chances are the same thing would have happened if Shouko was with them back then.

- fifth, it gives us a chance to see our mc in dilemma while he deal with his identity crisis and his feelings for shoko. Only when he realized that shoko is alive that the impact of losing his humanity hit him. This give arise to more character developement and again the author tells you this is not your typical happy story.

I do believe plenty of people have pointed out that this was a simply excuse to drag out a love triangle. But I've already voiced my complaints about this scene, so I'll withhold my comments here.

[kuromitsu]

Personally, I'd find a stone-cold, emotionally dead, ruthless fanatic main character boring, so I'm glad Haruto didn't end up like that... Especially since his motivation was "THEY KILLED THE ONE I LOVE" which is about the most clichéd motivations ever.

Right now he's at a point where he sacrificed his humanity (more on that later) for basically nothing, since Shouko is alive and well, and as a consequence he lost his chances with her. There's an irony here that I find rather delicious (as blatant as it is). The interesting thing will be, for me, how he deals with the situation. Sure, it will involve lots of angst, melodrama, and most likely a love triangle, but it's not like nobody expected all that...

Originally Posted by Triple_R

He talks like a human, he looks like a human, he thinks like a human (plenty of humans can become ruthlessly efficient soldiers, at least for a time), he has very human emotions. In any meaningful sense, he doesn't seem to me to have lost his humanity at all.

In fact, ironically, it's him angsting over his "lost humanity" that shows how very human he still is. Only a very human person would engage in such self-reflection, imo.

And you expect him to calmly assess the situation he is in, process his feelings, gaze at his navel for a while and go "oh! I'm crying tears of emotional pain! that must mean I'm not a monster after all!"...? People don't think rationally and definitely don't analyze themselves all the time. Especially when they're upset. (Really, people always talk as if they would be perfectly calm and rational in the main chara's place...)

Haruto has done some pretty horrible things (and don't bring up the "but soldiers kill people all the time" argument - Haruto is not a soldier, he massacred people out of entirely selfish reasons, and there's also the part about literally signing away his humanity, whatever that means aside of surviving lethal injuries and the ability to swap bodies, and perhaps turning you into a murder machine) and now that his drive is gone, the realization of all that is dawning on him. I don't think it's unrealistic that he's a mess and will continue to be one for a while.

Btw, I just watched the subbed version, and I'd just like to note that the subbers went a bit creative at the end... Haruto never said "Monsters don't have feelings." He said "I don't have the right to confess my feelings to her."

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Btw, I just watched the subbed version, and I'd just like to note that the subbers went a bit creative at the end... Haruto never said "Monsters don't have feelings." He said "I don't have the right to confess my feelings to her."

So gg did go liberty with their translation? I thought something strange at that phrase when he said that but didn't pay much attention.

[Jetzero Infinity]

Ep 2 wasn't as unintentionally funny as episode 1 was but it was still plenty ridiculous. The body swapping and the angry guy of the generic evil bishonen squad getting shot in the eye and acting angry and evil was hilarious.

What I didn't find funny. Was bringing back Shoko after just 1 ep. Sure it was pretty obvious she wasn't going to die but that was just incredibly bad writing, and not in a funny way like the rest of the show.

However I will give them the benefit of the doubt since yet again the ending of the episode was the best part of it.

"I'm an inhuman freak, no one can ever love me!"(even though it looks like black haired chick wants some space vampire love) Guess if their going to have space vampires might as well go all the way and throw in some Twilight too

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Twilight, Twilight... That's it, I am blocking anyone who bringing it up again on this thread. I am sorry, but it isn't funny anymore and it seems like baseless bashing of VVV.