2010-04-29, 09:19 | Link #9581 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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But then it has to end with September 1985, because otherwise Maria would not have drawings by Beatrice in her new one, (unless Rosa made much more frequent visits to the island than we're led to believe) and Battler notices that she does in Ep1. And if my dating is correct, Sakutaro was destroyed sometime in 1986. Therefore, if Ange has an older, full diary, it cannot have a mention of Sakutaro being destroyed in it. EDIT: ...if it's not a fake diary, that is.
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2010-04-29, 09:25 | Link #9582 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Asumu's parents, who Battler moved in with after breaking off ties, are mentioned to be pretty average in status compared to the Ushiromiya family. So when Battler moved back in with Rudolf, Kyrie and Ange, Rudolf/Kyrie told him to leave anything he wasn't really attached to there, that they'd buy him things more appropriate for a member of the Ushiromiya family. Since the time between him moving back in and the conference is mentioned to be pretty short, he didn't have many things that he was really attached to. Also, I think she'd find an object he tried hard to get for her much more memorable than a piece of clothing he randomly wore. And on the topic of shirts, who's to say she isn't wearing one under her jacket? Finally, Eva. She's shown to almost enjoy being a bitch to Ange, even though we know it's just that she can't cope with the loss of George, and the feeling that Ange was almost supposed to replace her beloved son. With no care for Ange's feelings, she might've just gotten rid of anything owned by her siblings that she couldn't sell or use to make herself look weathly. Though this does contradict her giving Ange the Grimoire/diary. |
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2010-04-29, 09:26 | Link #9583 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Uhmmm I have found this however:
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2010-04-29, 09:29 | Link #9584 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I think Ange would have both, else wise we could go back to the magic debate and say Maria, bound to her diary, can access her grimoire. |
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2010-04-29, 09:31 | Link #9585 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Actually it doesn't have to. The scene where that story starts off was in the meta world when Ange left the tea party temporarily. So we can just look at it like another episode 2 event except with Maria instead.
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2010-04-29, 09:32 | Link #9586 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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It is possible she has something else and doesn't mention it, but when the topic of resurrection comes up, it's obviously best to have as many items connected with the person as possible, yet the ornament is the only thing she says she has. The reasons you listed for personal effects actually missing are all quite reasonable, though. Ah, but Eva did not give her anything. Ange got a chance to be alone with Maria's personal effects, wherever they were from, and clandestinely swiped it, that's what she narrates. If Eva thought the book would implicate her in anything and knew it existed, I'm betting she would immediately destroy it, evidence or no.
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2010-04-29, 09:39 | Link #9588 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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But then, just how much does Maria have to write to have multiple grimoires, all with traces of a Beatrice in them?
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2010-04-29, 09:42 | Link #9589 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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Maybe she had found some notes/drawings from Maria about Sakutaro and since she noticed that Maria hadn't Sakutaro arround her when she came visiting, she putted 1 and 2 together....
Or the woman from the District welfare officer told Ange afterwards? Because the woman was in the hall of the house telling Rosa to calm down in the anime...if I remember it correctly Last edited by Dlanor A. Knox; 2010-04-29 at 09:49. Reason: Thanks Oliver ^^ |
2010-04-29, 09:46 | Link #9590 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I'm sorry but that's stretching the interpretation slightly beyond sustainability.
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2010-04-29, 09:47 | Link #9591 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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2010-04-29, 09:49 | Link #9592 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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You know, after further thinking I seem to prefer the variant of Rosa surviving with Maria's bag, five master keys and a gold bar. Her endgame magic scene narration clearly says 'I can start over with this.'
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2010-04-29, 09:52 | Link #9593 | |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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well, nothing is impossible as long as the (real) truth isn't discovered. |
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2010-04-29, 10:01 | Link #9594 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I formed a little theory based around the whole different scenarios of Umineko. Of course, each game board has a 1998 that follows it, but Ange rarely ever survives until that year for most of the Episodes. In other words, she commits suicide from the inability to cope with the world without her family. In Episode 3, she only is able to surive because of her hatred for Eva, and after Eva dies, we see that Ange is contemplating suicide again. Something convinces her to keep living however, and she can survive to reach the island. That's why Ange could fight in the meta-world only after Episode 3. It was the factors of that Episode that allowed her to play alongside her brother. |
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2010-04-29, 10:24 | Link #9595 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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All episodes can be seen as possibilities in a state of flux before the box is actually opened, or else, simulations on a sufficiently big computing device, or occur as thought in someone's brain and are written out as fiction we're reading, and none of them is actually a complete universe -- they're bottle worlds, having no connection to any actual reality past 24:00 of October 3rd 1986. They're 'the chessboard of the witch' and are not 'real' in the sense that what really happened in the reality Ange/1998 lives in is something that so far matched none of the episodes. All objects outside Rokkenjima are only simulated completely enough to provide the environment required to get the Ushiromiyas to Rokkenjima. They are fixed, and sufficient natural noise to actually prevent anyone from getting to Rokkenjima never accumulates -- and after that, Rokkenjima completely bubbles off. This is why the emergency radio doesn't work -- nobody exists to be contacted. All things we see in the actual episodes are scenarios that are possible and were actually played on the board. People who survived to the endgame in the episodes actually did have such an opportunity and some of them did survive past it in a fashion we see in the episodes. The only one who chose to stick around and hold the remnants of Ushiromiyas is Eva. The game sub-reality is possible because it relies on the imperceptibility of the real truth of the events, and requires the real world for it's starting conditions. It can be continued indefinitely until the full truth, well substantiated by evidence, is publicized in the real world, crushing the metaphorical witch in this manner.
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2010-04-29, 11:24 | Link #9596 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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The grimoire Ange got had:
1. THe initial innocent spells created by Maria (UUUUUU~~~, the spell to rain candy, etc) 2. Wicked spells created by Maria (causing classmates to catch cold, causing the school bus to crash, etc) 3. Beatrice's drawing of magic circles (all the ones on the door in the twilights) 4. Beatrice's declaration of accepting Sakutarou as Maria's friend and an individual (along with Sakutarou's drawing) 5. Description of the seven stakes 6. Rosa's treatment of Maria (she believed Rosa was just busy in the office even she found the ticket to Atami. Of course, this view is so biased) to the time Rosa tearing Sakutarou Therefore, Maria's grimoire is a diary, as well as a spellbook, from when she was very little (when she created the first spell), up to now. THere is little doubt that there was only one grimoire, and obviously she carried it everytime she went to Rokkenjima.
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2010-04-29, 11:57 | Link #9597 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Something just occurred to me about the letters.
Therefore, one and only one of the three has to be true:
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2010-04-29, 12:23 | Link #9599 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Oh, and a completely unrelated oddity from Ep4: Either Battler can't count or he knows something we don't.
It's the end, Battler is arguing with Suit-Beatrice about his sin, Meta-Battler does the same with Meta-Beatrice one level higher, and launches into a rant, "13 people dead because of me?! Say it in red!" But wait a moment, why 13? Because the epitaph says so? But there's more people dead this time than the epitaph says! At that moment, Battler has only seen the dead body of George, Kumasawa and Gohda hanging out in the storehouse, and suspects Kinzo is dead from the start. He also thinks there are 18 people on the island and one of them is Suit-Beatrice. But as far as he is aware, the only people alive on the island should be Battler, Maria and Suit-Beatrice, as everyone else has been reported dead to him. Supposing that Battler doesn't think he could have anything to do with the dead Kinzo and leaving his status undefined, that makes 15 people dead.
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2010-04-29, 12:27 | Link #9600 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Are you sure that the giver no longer can access those money? Not that I think he would do that, but the possibility that he could access the vaults exist.
First off it must be considered that while there are 20 vaults or so, they are all part of the same account. The hardest part to "crack" is the magnetic card and the code. However we know that there are multiple magnetic cards and by inserting the PIN 07151129 all the 20+ vaults become available to be opened with the proper key. The key however is the easier thing to bypass since it can be duplicated if you have the original, and the one who made the account had all these keys in her possession. Quote:
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