2008-02-19, 08:48 | Link #961 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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The Earth Alliance bery much still could be the enemy though if that were to happen again without no other good reason than "Grrrrrrrrrrr the EA really hates Coordinators!" I couldn't stomach to watch another season,because I will know to expect.
The world isn't short on the Azrael types,as there was an entire list of Logos and suspected Logos members,so they can go the genocidal maniac route for the 3rd time if they wanted. There are also the Martians that had their entire way of life insulted with no evidence in Seed Destiny,and then later we find out that the Destiny Plan wasn't as bad as it was made out to be in the Anime. |
2008-02-19, 09:02 | Link #963 | ||
Photomancy Experiments
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Balanga City, Bataan, Philippines
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Case In point: Special Editions (fan's cut) The original TV series had Kira hallucinating that Lacus was Fllay, in the SE this scene was removed. Practically everything that pertains to their relationship are dumbed down or erased entirely. Heck this was the same thing with Stellar in Destiny... What the heck is Fukuda's problem with Houko Kuwashima?.. Seriously, this is why Destiny and the second part of SEED sucked. Rather than giving what the plot needed, the directors opt for what the FANS WANTED. Sure they're looking for another fanbase, but pleassssssssse... they were making a gundam series. The first half of SEED was okay from UC standpoint but as we all know, Kira got Freedom. And that means that his skill deteriorated to the point that Strike Rouge with it's VPS armor and Improved Aile Pack isn't as effective three years ago against Gundams with more capability and better pilots. I could argue that I could watch Kira get angry everyday just as long as he beats up the guy... But Freedom happened, His bad-assery was replaced with WTF Jeebus Criest... Sure Kira cried alot when he had Strike, but I'd take a crying guy over a hypocrite cyborg. Kira throws his believability away for Pew Pew rainbowspam bot. Kira being Pissed in SEED >>>> Cyborg Named Kira in GSD Kira crying in SEED >>>> Cyborg Named Kira in GSD Kira being reckless in SEED >>>> Cyborg named Kira in GSD He was much more believable as a reckless teen who was plunged into war than a hypocrite cyborg who leisurely attacks a random faction. Heck, I'd rather have Kira get Strike-E in Destiny before S-Freedom. To me, Destiny was the lowest point of the whole series. It was like watching the Lakers after Shaq was traded. That's how bad it was. Quote:
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2008-02-19, 09:13 | Link #964 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Does it really have to be another "save the world" plot-line? How about simply making it more action oriented, let Strike Freedom own like it's supposed to, and forget about trying to make a central antagonist altogether? It doesn't have to follow the same-styling or animation as the battles in Seed and Destiny.
As for plot, maybe something having to do with people wanting to move into space, rather than rebuild on Earth? Coordinators losing their identity as their population stagnants and Plant is flooded with Naturals who want to take advantage of the oppurtunities space presents? Lacus has probably bit off more than can be chewed by becoming Chairwoman. Certainly one does not have to have personal animosity towards a group if they simply wish to preserve their kind. Hell, maybe Naturals who enter Plant would have to have Coordinator Children as an act of law. Keep the population up with the addition of freshblood. She can't perform miracles and she knows it, despite what people might think. |
2008-02-19, 09:20 | Link #965 | |
Photomancy Experiments
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Balanga City, Bataan, Philippines
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2008-02-19, 09:30 | Link #966 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Her father knew her generation would probably be the last one, even if Earth didn't destroy them. She may actually be faced with the decision of having to abandon Plant altogether and allowing her people to go extinct, because there's just no way to preserve it. |
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2008-02-19, 09:34 | Link #967 | |
Photomancy Experiments
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Balanga City, Bataan, Philippines
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2008-02-19, 09:36 | Link #969 | |
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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What I liked about SEED was that I was really provided with the sense of menace. Something that was utterly gone in Destiny. Partially because of "overkill" Kira. |
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2008-02-19, 09:54 | Link #971 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Raising people in pods isn't the solution either, since it just costs too many lives to do so. |
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2008-02-19, 10:48 | Link #972 |
Tsubasa No Kami
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Destiny provided more menace than SEED ever did. It's just 2 years after the war, and everything is still in chaos, when tragedy strikes too soon and the war acts up again. At least in SEED there was a grace period before the ZAFT commandos actually infiltrated Heliopolis; in Destiny, it suddenly JUST happened.
Seriously though, there isn't even any kind of menace going on in SEED to warrant more attention than the usual. The villains and the heroes knew their places, so they couldn't actually randomly attack each other out of whim - they actually had a grasp of what the heck is still going on, unlike what happened in Destiny when everything became a free for all. If they attacked ZAFT, or EA for that matter, there actually is a reason behind it, and not just because they felt like doing it. The sense of menace was a given because they are in a war, and people could get killed in the war, coupled with the unthinkable hatred Naturals and Coordinators have for each other. The war wasn't even thoroughly fleshed out in my opinion, since when it all boils down to it, it is just a simple case of hatred, with this hatred being interpreted in so many various ways that it has become an obsession for them (Zala and Azrael particularly) to end the "war" using their own methods. The "war" happened because they tried to get back at each other employing their tools that would then force the other side to retaliate, and so give them good reason to go to war against them, because of it. And so SEED ends with a note that the TSA has ended war...but did they really end it? They just simply stopped the war that was dealt by means of MS and WMDs, but the war still continued because the hatred was not addressed, and gave birth to another war that was simply a repeat of the first. It's as if they are just simply there so that the old cast would be able to do battle against anything "remotely evil" going their way. >.>;; Did the war change? Did the people that they sought to stop change? NO. It was still a war of Naturals against Coordinators, with the Destiny Plan as a lame excuse trying to cover up the same things that has actually brought the war again to the center stage - Naturals VS Coordinators - with the Naturals suddenly shafted to one side and being painted as the evil of all evils, and the Coordinators not as evil. What was the Destiny Plan all about? It was the "war" of superior genes against normal genes, in this case Coordinators and Naturals AGAIN. With Lacus in PLANT and Cagalli in Orb, what would be left to change? Everything is now in complete control of Lacus and Cagalli who are powerful enough to do things that would safeguard against anything that would probably shake their holds on PLANT and Orb respectively. Where is the room reserved for Zala-ists, and all other people who supported the villains? Kira, Athrun and Shinn could pretty much do that without a moment's hesitation, and leave the Earth Sphere and PLANTs in perfect peace. Giving people the freedom to choose what they believe in is kinda restrictive if you have those 3 as guard dogs. You could pretty much do anything you want except going against the prescribed rule by Lacus and Cagalli. So where's the menace again?
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2008-02-19, 11:06 | Link #973 |
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I don't know about you, but I just put myself in the place of Kira and felt all his confusion/fear/sadness/pain along the series. When people started dying there, like this little girl on the escaping pod, or when the four Gundams were again released to fulfill their mission of destruction, I felt suspense. Sympathy/pity etc. The series could have sprakled a whole lot of emotions in the viewer. If he was affected as much as I was.
In Destiny the only character I cared about - Shinn- was totally pushed back to the background. And the character I liked so much in the previous series became a super-invincible cyborg. So basically it is not difficult to see what made me write what I wrote. Or I am not clear enough? |
2008-02-19, 11:14 | Link #974 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2008-02-19, 11:31 | Link #976 |
Tsubasa No Kami
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I also put myself in Kira's shoes, as much as Shinn's, and I understand how really hard it is for them to have peaceful lives suddenly disrupted by war and its many accompanying horrors. But this is war, it's not like you could actually put everything on pause while the war goes on outside and you still live peacefully wherever you are. Eventually the war would catch up to you and could enter your life in zillions of ways possible. I didn't expect Yzak would be shooting down that shuttle, but for some reason I am not surprised by it. Heck, this is war, and a lot of crazy stuff could probably happen, I am well aware of that fact. I just didn't expect it though. It affected me a lot too, because it is rare to have anime actually tackling such matters meant for young people to understand the effects of war on ordinary young people like them. Anyway, this is a Gundam story, so we can expect a lot of mayhem, destruction, chaos and war to happen. It wouldn't make sense if they created a Gundam show with no war in it that would make the Gundam flex its muscles and sell lots of merchandise for the franchise. but whatever urgency that SEED did have was suddenly lost by the time the plot holes started pouring in. Now, I cannot even bring myself to rewatch Destiny without LOLing at the side for reasons I cannot understand. X_____X and this is a big letdown for me, I tell you, I was really expecting Destiny to be better than what SEED was, but it became what it is, so.... SEED's ending just became as forced as what Destiny's ending came to be, with Azrael and his killing mania of all Coordinators in the whole wide universe, down to Zala's rage at the Naturals for killing his innocent wife. It's not that I belittle their reasons or anything, but it's because their reasons were just added later (with Azrael that is) that left the audience and think them otherwise when they really have a "perfect" reason of being and doing so. It's just as if they are there so that the story would have an evil side to it, which I think I already stated in my previous post. So take away Azrael and Zala, what kind of story would SEED have? Or what kind of menace?
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2008-02-19, 11:38 | Link #977 | |
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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And yeah, I liked Zeta with its dark mood and dramatic "Kamille's mother ;__;". Next to SEED it is my favorite Gundam series. Gundam 00 is just catching up. |
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2008-02-19, 11:55 | Link #978 |
Tsubasa No Kami
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Rau still needed Zala for his Providence Gundam, and besides, if he wouldn't be able to mask his true intentions until everything unravels, what's the point of keeping Rau as the badass villain? He owes just that from using everyone else, so, if Rau didn't use anyone else, his reason to become a cool villain will be SERIOUSLY affected.
I never really did think Zala of a villain, just an overzealous man bent on revenge on the Naturals for killing his wife. Azrael too; he had his own reasons why he acted that way towards Coordinators, and so he was just as revenge obsessed as Zala was. As for the optimism carried on supposedly by how TSA ended the war, it didn't work out that way, that is why there was a Destiny. It's as if the Naturals didn't learn any better and were also making experiments in secret, stealing Gundams on the side, and making war on the Coordinators AGAIN because the existence of such powerful weapons told them to. Same goes with the Coordinators. So nothing really changed from the last war, everything - the hatred, mistrust of Naturals and Coordinators, plus the race to become the best in the arms race, coupled with propaganda/mud slinging at the side - was just the same as it was. I am asking you what menace, where's menace, because you said that in SEED there was a menace. And I think I already explained myself by saying that menace is a given because of the war but has disappeared because of the old cast (yes, even in SEED that was resolved in Destiny), and are intent on keeping it that way, by the way things turned out in the last SE IV.
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2008-02-19, 12:22 | Link #979 | |
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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As for the "outcome", the optimism turned out to be just plain naive. But I think we all know that without the broken hope for eternal peace there'd be no second series Maybe it'd be better if there wasn't the one like Destiny and they made another seqwuel, but well... the milk is spilt, so the only hope for CE fans lies in the better third series/OAV/movie. I won't start all this "villain/not villain" discussion all over again we had already about another SEED universe character - Dullindal. Basically, yeah... if one perceives it just as a torturer that likes to bathe in blood of the innocents, but nothing short of it, then yeah... But to me Azrael's egoism/hatred that came from intollerance were enough for me to classify him as a villain. And all this slaughter... man... As for Zala, yeah, he was obsessed with revenge. But he wanted to take out the whole planet in retaliation for one life. That majkes him an ignorant egoist at worst or a dangerous lunatic at best. Both kinds of people I stil consider to be "villanous types". That's just my two cents. If u don't want to call Patrick Zala or Azrael villains, I won't try to convince you otherwise. Just showed how I look at it. |
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2008-02-19, 12:24 | Link #980 | |
Mr. Bushido
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 36
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Last edited by Spitfire; 2008-02-19 at 12:37. |
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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