2014-08-03, 17:54 | Link #81 |
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Assuming they even accept Slaine aboard the ship how will he be treated. I don't think the people on the ship would be happy to have someone that was with the martians even if he isn't a Martian on the same ship. I especially think Calm would be hostile towards Slaine because he was affiliated with the Martians Calm has grown to hate.
The problem of why they would even accept Slaine is also an issue. He could try to hide the fact that he was in space with the Martians but otherwise the only way I see them taking him in is as a prisoner or unless someone vouches for him.
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2014-08-03, 18:06 | Link #82 | |
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Again, I don't see the same reversal you do: there is indeed a different intention for each, in how it's framed in an opposite manner. Inaho guided those two but you can argue Inko was the one who saved them, because she was driving the vehicle. In case of Slaine, it was a personal action and involved only two people. She didn't save him because she was the princess, she saved him because she was Asseylum. If it had involved some fancy court scheme she interfered, it would be about her as princess, this is about her as girl. That's what I mean with impersonal and personal encounters. Of course she's the character that connects them, but more than that, both want to stop the war. So far, actually, the interaction between Inaho and Asseylum seems strictly plot related too. Last episode, they just exchanged a line about the armistice. This could change and they can speak of other things, but so far it keeps the line of the reason why they met: she needed assistance because of her position in the war and plot.
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2014-08-03, 18:21 | Link #84 | ||
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2014-08-03, 19:01 | Link #85 |
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Remember how Suzaku was hated and no one really trusted him because he was an "Eleven"?
I feel like Slaine are getting the similar treatment. Except the difference is that Suzaku was able to gain some through his efforts as he was provided Lancelot while Slaine has nothing like a super ace mecha to show his skills. |
2014-08-03, 19:06 | Link #86 | |
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They have a completely opposite set up, Slaine's doing stuff without any expectation placed on him. That's why I value Slaine more despite the actual odds piled against him, he sticks to his morals and isn't self-righteous.
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2014-08-03, 19:10 | Link #87 | |
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Honestly, I hate Suzaku and everything about his character and at no point did I ever feel sorry for him. I feel the exact opposite about Slaine.
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Last edited by Irenesharda; 2014-08-03 at 20:32. |
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2014-08-03, 19:27 | Link #89 | |
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Also, I feel the difference comes from Suzaku's motivation was always the guilt he felt in a way. Slaine's motivation is love and devotion, it's not just towards Asseylum, but also for the peace between Mars and Earth. This makes Slaine more noble, but lacks the layers Suzaku has. His situation is more complex than Suzaku's, on the other hand, even if his character is simpler.
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2014-08-03, 20:06 | Link #91 | |
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More importantly though, Slaine is still loyal to Vers (well specifically the princess over Vers), so I don't see him hopping on the Terran side just because he can. I don't think he'll do so for a while yet, at least I hope not (I still want to seem him and Inaho fight). And another thing is that he's not actually aware that he's been found out by Saazbaum. Actually....he might not even know Saazbaum exists. Depending on exactly what Saazbaum meant by saying the situation was "ironic" he also might not attack Slaine(yet). Another thing he could do if he's pressed is actually, appeal to Cruhteo for help. Cruhteo doesn't dislike Slaine as a person. He just likes to reprimand him for speaking out of turn. Vers people in general seem to be pretty honor oriented and big on the hierarchy of life thing. If he can convince Cruhteo he's right, (with the help of Cruhteo's own investigation) he can get somewhere. |
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2014-08-03, 20:44 | Link #92 | |
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Firstly, he can present the fact that Slaine killed Trillram. He can present the evidence he knows about Trillram not being in his mech like Slaine said, and with Slaine being the only one with him. Also, since Slaine can't deny it, and also has the worst poker face in the world, he'll immediately be found out. Secondly, the Emperor thinks Slaine is a Terran spy. All Saazbaum has to do is tell Cruhteo what Slaine did and that he dared to try to trick their ruler. Again, while the facts are twisted, Slaine can't deny that he spoke with the Emperor and the ruler himself will corroborate Saazbaum's words. Thirdly, Saazbaum could simply use a spy to take out Slaine quietly as well. In all these cases, Slaine would be either marked or sentenced to death. Cruhteo won't take such "treachery" well, and he will believe a Martian and especially his Emperor over anything Slaine has to say. The boy is as good as dead if that happens. Cruhteo, like all Martians, think Terrans are beneath him, even Slaine. And while he doesn't dislike Slaine, he doesn't respect him either. He'll believe a Martian above Slaine.
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2014-08-03, 21:19 | Link #93 |
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I'm utterly new to this site, and as such have no clue how to include multiple quotes but I'll try to address your points individually as if I could.
1. Saazbaum can point fingers at Slaine for killing Trillram, but he has no proof. Slaine never did say he was still in his mech when he died. He said he was caught in the meteor bombardment, which could've happened in his mech or out of it. Of course, Cruhteo will be inclined to believe him cause he's a martian and a fellow Count, but if his (Cruhteo)'s own investigation turns up something then maybe not so. 2. Well this is a very legitimate argument. Um, I'd say that if "Dr. Troyard" has little significance to Martian culture, and Slaine has 0 significance other than being liked by the princess, then he'd be in serious deep trouble. And this also hinges on the Emperor being completely sold on Saazbaum's theory. The Emperor seems to know who Slaine is, so I find it mildly difficult to believe that he'd just throw Slaine to the sharks. 3. Well, it's possible, but spies are easier to deal with, and if this happens, and the spy gets found out, well, that's a springboard for Slaine to stay in Vers, because Cruhteo will finally get in on the loop(a little) and know what's going on. Eh. All in all, I hope the plot keeps him in Vers. I like him better there. Since this is 2-cour I'd like to see him remain in Vers and on Vers' side for the first half and switch the second. (I'd also like to see a civil war in Vers happen from this) Well, since this is speculations, I'd like to outline what I think/would like to happen. (Maybe a bit far fetched though). I'd personally like to see Slaine stay on the Vers side at least until the second half, I want the Emperor to die before the first half ends, I want Asseylum to be pointing that gun at Slaine, and I'd like Vers to be launched into a civil war when they see Asseylum is alive. Last edited by NightKnight; 2014-08-03 at 22:05. Reason: Adding details I forgot about |
2014-08-03, 21:54 | Link #94 |
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It's possible though that Saazbaum will keep quiet on the matter because he knows that Slaine will do whatever he can to find the princess and by letting him "loose" a bit he'll home in on her.
Of course, the question then becomes what does Slaine think now that the emperor has told all of the knights to go postal on Earth? I mean sorry people but there's no out for the Martians at this point. |
2014-08-03, 22:12 | Link #95 | |
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He can't join the Earth team as they will consider him an enemy and lock him up if some of them don't kill him first for being a traitor. If he defects, he needs to bring some technology with him or else he's going to be killed. Really...Slaine is probably going to be branded a traitor no matter which side he's on. He's going to be one lucky dude if he makes it to the end of the series alive.
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2014-08-03, 22:23 | Link #96 | |||||
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I think we'll still see Vers side of things even without Slaine being there, and also, Slaine and Inaho will have to meet eventually. Usually the co-MCs will get together at one point or another. I think everything could still work even with Slaine on the run. It would change the formulaic path this show is beginning to show signs of. Also, with no more sub-knights and Cruhteo being the only Orbital Knight in the area, I think they will take a break from the knight-of the week formula for at least the next episode.
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2014-08-03, 23:15 | Link #97 | |
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2014-08-04, 02:42 | Link #98 |
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Although we know the princess' end goal, I'm really not thinking they're going to break up the cast at this point. We're probably going to find out the base commander is someone who would rather imprison the princess and use her as a hostage rather than let her try and end the war
Even if that doesn't happen, it's pretty apparent the UE is too disorganized at this point to be able to do something like contact Mars. They might be able to contact the locally landed castle or one of the orbital ones, but I question whether the princess would opt for that if she's unsure which knight/count is in the area and who's actually in on the conspiracy. Really there are only a few ways I can see Asseylum driving the plot rather than having it driven through her needs by Inaho. One is obviously if they somehow get Slain into the picture to pick her up and get her back to Cruhteo's castle, but that's only going to be possible if he's not bailing on Mars and his actions are probably going to be monitored quite closely now by certain parties if he isn't. The whole thing is we're only 5 episodes in now. Unless they plan to turn this from a UE vs Mars war to a Mars civil war mid series with the EU and the princess' allies against the conspirators, I just don't see the princess taking front and center for a while still. Even if they are, it's almost certainly her reveal that would trigger that shift, and it's way too early for that. I also feel that they aren't going to break up the cast at this point, so that would mean that all the main players on the UE's side are staying with Magbaredge's boat (Inaho, Inko, Calm, Rayet, Asseylum, her maid, Yuuki, Marito and the doctor at a minimum) and while they might take some independent action within each episode for wherever they end up, something is going to force them back on board every few episodes.
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2014-08-04, 03:57 | Link #99 | |
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The problem now with Slaine is that for how the things stand for him I'm expecting Saazbaum to execute him no matter what (unless as I said he won't set him up to find the princess, that's the real evidence he needs to obliterate, he may even have guessed/known that Rayet is with her if the mech had some stored recording system). I mean, he didn't have any qualms in meteor bombarding an ally territory jsut to kill Rayet, why he shouldn't kill Slaine now that he knows everything and has also convinced even the emperor about it.
The only way I can see for Slaine to remain on Mars, at least for a bit more, is that Crutheo will enter the game, so to speak. I don't think he didn't know who bombarded him. So he may in some ways get the picture of what's going on on his castle. Or he is run his own investigation. There's a high possibility that as Saazbaum has spies he also had his own spies, through which he could by chance get to know what it's happening. If that happened, I can see him protecting Slaine from Saazbaum's intentions. But in any case I don't see what he could do on Mars. Quote:
Letting aside this detail, what I see instead is kinda the opposite, that lies beneath the visual presentation of the events. A princess kid close to a goddess what kind of prerogative should have to be a goddess? Generosity, magnanimity, she has to be somehow the representation of it. And she is in the best position to be. I see it as she did a very selfless action toward a completely stranger. But given her easy, comfortable and one of a kind circumstances (being a princess) I can't give that much of an importance (I'm not saying it is insignificant, I'm just looking at that in prospective). It's too easy to be selfless, even extremely selfless in that kind of position. How would she act in the opposite position, being a fugitive, in danger and lost? In the most selfish way (for her character) assaulting a complete stranger. And what this complete stranger did in return? He rescued her, saved her life (not Inko, they would have been hit by the enemy without him telling Inko to brake) and went further risking his life for her sole sake. Personally I find this latter situation far more influencing for anyone in Seylum position, despite whatever they could have talked about, whatever the presentation the show could have used, than the former. Consider in my reasoning the meta-lens that are Slaine and Inaho. Where the former is depicted openly and the former in not, so it makes sense that his portrayal of this side of the story isn't so clear. It isn't as much as Inaho. But that obviously needs further evidence. As things stand now Slaine has all the cards. We were even forgetting the pendant he gave her.
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2014-08-04, 04:51 | Link #100 | ||||
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Inko (and Calm, but there was an emphasis on Inko). But Rayet beat her to it. Quote:
You are also forgetting an important detail: Slaine became her proxy for Earth. He was one of her influences in this path (and she mentioned it, alongside his father). So claiming the influence of her Terran educator in the obviously racist Martian society wasn't as "big" as Inaho's is simply ludicrous. He was likely an anchor against her to adopt the typical casual prejudice. Because, after last episode, her grandfather also has some of this. Quote:
With Slaine, she's 'bare' (her true self). With Inaho, she's disguised. That yes, it's obviously reversed from the meeting with Slaine. I agree with you, but not in the same interpretation. I saw her meeting just as meaningful as Yuki saving Rayet: plot relevant (but more relevant). Meanwhile this glimpse of the past was just a character vignette for the audience to spy without a connection to the war plot at large. The brake action isn't important, she didn't witness it and wasn't for her sake, it was for all of them. Speaking of which: "Sole sake"? I wouldn't jump into assumptions, so far Inaho hasn't done anything for her sole sake, imo. Of course he would logically avoid the princess to reveal herself and hurt their chances to stop the war. She's more a means to an end. Quote:
There was only one character who approached Inaho as "person" (other than his sister), that was Inko, who is the person who actually gets him to talk about things at times on screen.
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-08-04 at 05:23. |
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