2010-05-24, 07:29 | Link #81 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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Quote:
Spoiler for Quote, since it is kinda long:
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2010-05-24, 07:37 | Link #82 | ||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 35
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For example, if I remember correctly (and if I'm wrong, blast away), the number zero doesn't actually exist in nature, yet that concept, that abstract, nonexistent concept, is a crucial part of human understanding. That we are able to *know* something as incredibly elegant yet utterly nonexistent as the number zero is rather amazing. Which leads everything back to the beginning question: can we count that ability to grasp the abstract and acquire meaning to be free will? Can we really call the number zero our banner of freedom from the nature that created us? Quote:
On another, less on topic side, I was introducing something of a cultural argument to the discussion. Spoiler for space saver:
Edit: On the Dawkins excerpt. He sounded quite reasonable until he made that leap at the end, "[a]ssigning blame and responsibility is an aspect of the useful fiction of intentional agents that we construct in our brains as a means of short-cutting a truer analysis of what is going on in the world in which we have to live," of which I must demand supporting evidence. Given that his entire argument hinges on this point that abstract morality is thoroughly an evolutionary construct, a shortcut built because -- and only because -- it's more convenient that way, he's going to have to demonstrate a stronger evidence than just an assertion that it is so. Last edited by Irenicus; 2010-05-24 at 07:51. |
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2010-05-24, 11:03 | Link #83 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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2010-05-24, 21:52 | Link #84 | |||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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This isn't to say that society becomes one big human, but think about it: if societies ever did become self-aware, how would we know about it? It's unlikely that we would be able to perceive it. Fun food for thought Quote:
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2010-05-25, 07:44 | Link #85 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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Quote:
Actually the Apocrita suborder of insects are basically an alien approach for society building, from our perspective. They have evolved to live under a perfect communist-style system and their forms of communication seem to have a great deal of depth even without sentience. Do these beings have a will? Can they break the mold, or are they essentially biological robots? |
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2010-05-25, 07:59 | Link #86 |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Free will is the ability to act any which way I see fit, regardless if it fits into some group theory some other entity/person might have. The way the opening phrases it is more in line with the illusion some of have of us being some omnipotent beings and how we might loose this (nonexistent) ability. Which I find silly. Yes we can choose, but our choices are limited to our understanding. That doesn't mean we don't have freedom to choose, as in free will.
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2010-05-25, 18:52 | Link #87 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new jersey
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Everyone has free will, but every action interact with other people. For example someone can have the free will to set a building on fire. However that action has consequences.
I also think that people as a whole get into a rut that inhibits this free will. For example things like work, money, bills, and things like that take priority in the mind which inhibits free will.
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2010-05-26, 10:26 | Link #89 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Jan 2010
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We question it existence. Me and a few others conclude just by living (or other more scientific explanation) we have free will.
I believe I have free will, why? Because I don't need a God interfering in my life. God in Heaven. Fine by me. Accepting things as determined is just a way of escaping the responsibility and not wanting to live or know you made a mistake. Because if it was destined to happen it isn't that bad, right? No. Thank. You. I'll live with my choices because I believe they exist. Thinking everything is written in stone in some form or manner is just limiting yourself, if you think the future is written in stone then by all means believe it. I'll just believe the opposite and think people have a conscious, therefore they have a unique thought process, therefore they have an identity. Therefore they have free will. *rants and raves for several more minutes* |
2010-05-26, 10:56 | Link #90 |
Senior Member
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lol, people are just stating what they WANT to be the truth. honestly, you cant prove either point. if there is no free will (lets just say), then you wont find the underlying principles and mechanisms that determine our actions, but that doesnt mean there is free will.
this question is one of the more amusing ones. because of what i stated before it doesnt matter if there is free will or not. you will always (no matter what the truth is) have the illusion that you have free will. so i say just stop being afraid of uncertainty, put a big fat question mark on the issue and let it freaking go... oh, i'll maybe post again when i've read the "just by living we prove free will" thingy. looks sketchy at best, cause for instance some religions say that us living is the proof of the opposite, lol. PS. alot of psychologists and their studies point us in the inexistence(or non-?? in-?? spelling sucks) of free will. i would recommend at least giving them a try.
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free will, philosophy |
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