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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 21 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 28 | 46.67% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 15 | 25.00% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 16 | 26.67% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 1 | 1.67% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-02-23, 19:37 | Link #81 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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If you were in their situation, would you feel comfortable with beings walking around who could wipe you out at any time, leaving it to trust that they won't? Given their history with humans, I can't see any reason why the queerats would.
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2013-02-23, 19:49 | Link #82 | |||
DRRR!!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Netherlands
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2013-02-23, 19:54 | Link #83 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 38
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Yes, I would feel just as scared and paranoid if I were in the queerats shoes. However I disagree with the idea that only choice is to commit genocide and wipe all humans off the face of the earth. The core problem here is the mere existence of Cantus. Mortals can't handle the power. Possessing it puts you at such a ridiculous advantage that you literally rocket to the top of the food chain; nothing can stop you. The optimal situation would be for the queerats to gain it themselves; not enslaving human infants, but actually having the ability themselves. If we continue using the metaphor that a PK user is like an WMD, then maybe the doctrine of mutual assured destruction would apply here. If both groups are packing equal amounts of nukes, neither would attack each other all out for fear of annihilation.
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2013-02-23, 19:55 | Link #84 |
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The fact that those children have been robbed of their identity and their parents, is more than a harsh and monstrous enough crime for them to want revenge. Let alone the fact that they'll likely be treated as weapons for war.
If they're victorious, queerats better hope the kids never come across a false minoshiro or find out the truth...
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2013-02-23, 20:00 | Link #85 |
Senior Member
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Well, there's no doubt it's an absolutely brutal war, with horrific war atrocities on both sides.
With this in mind, I am struck by how easily the humans in this show do mass killings of Queerats (Satoru himself has done this at least twice to my recollection). Granted, this is typically in self-defense (it was for Satoru), but there's never even a moment of self-reflection over "Wow, I just killed dozens of sentient lifeforms". As Shisei said, the Queerats are "filth" to humans. And even the more moral and thoughtful humans like Saki and Satoru don't seem to view the killing of a Queerat as being even remotely as bad as the killing of a human. There might have been some lies mixed in with Yakomaru's "manipulating truth", but I doubt he needed many... To be fair, there's no truly "good side" here, no. Again, horrible atrocities on both sides. Perhaps to some degree this narrative is a commentary on war itself. How war can become this totally destructive thing where the very thought of diplomacy is forgotten.
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2013-02-23, 20:07 | Link #86 | |
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Squealer's hypocritical idealism, where his democracy is beautiful and egalitarian, but he is fine with lobotimizing his queen and has no issue with going back to the ways of old when it means he gets more weapons. And the humans, who never integrated the queerats into their society simply because they had cantus and the queerats did not, which to them makes it okay to enslave them. I can't imagine what kind of conclusion we're headed to... Spoiler for theory on Queerat species in the past, former identity:
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2013-02-23, 20:07 | Link #87 |
Shinigami
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Shouldn't Shisei realize that cantus leakage would be an issue for him and just run away for now?
At least, couldn't he have non-lethaly trapped the fiend? Knocked it out? Or does death feedback prevent ANY kind of attack, even if the intent isn't death? Crystallizing the sand into a prison would have been pretty amazing. Unrelated ... doesn't seem odd that the 'rats can make the child a fiend? Shouldn't that be a ridiculously low probability event, even if we're talking about Mamoru's genes? |
2013-02-23, 20:10 | Link #88 | |
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But probably the child just sees himself as another queerat soldier. Or maybe he's brainwashed. Who knows... Shisei was probably stalling for time fully knowing he'd die, but the longer he stalled the fiend, the longer people would have time to run. I think the only thing he can do due to death feedback is defend himself.
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2013-02-23, 20:28 | Link #90 | |
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 44
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Now you could imagine that if the queerats started such a dialogue, some of the humans might come around to the queerats' position. Again, not likely, as the groupthink of the humans would be hard to overcome. But more than that, I think the human leadership would view the extension of rights to queerats as very dangerous. "If the queerats have rights, then shouldn't children as well?" people would begin to think. This danger is the key reason that I think the queerats don't first petition the humans. Since Tomiko was willing to annihilate an entire colony for winning a battle, I think she would annihilate a colony that started protesting for equal rights, lest the danger spread (and I think Yakomaru knows this). So the only way for the queerats to successfully achieve their freedom is to rebel without first petitioning the humans. And once the queerats decide to take that step, I do think they have to kill every human Cantu user, otherwise there is a good chance they lose, which would make rebelling futile. |
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2013-02-23, 20:37 | Link #91 | |
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Join Date: May 2004
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It's interesting because the queerats used this to launch their attack. They set up the war between the queerat colonies and used PK knowing the humans would find out (and how they'd react). |
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2013-02-23, 21:14 | Link #92 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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It's not limited to Cantus or lethal attacks. The elder tested out Saki's death feedback back when she was just a child by stabbing himself. The sheer act of perceiving another human being harmed would cause your body to shut down. And how would Shisei trap a Cantus user who can use his full powers? He can't use too much power that would harm the kid or his body would shut down from death feedback. |
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2013-02-23, 21:21 | Link #93 | ||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Uwaa, I step out for a day and when I come back the thread has grown 5 pages...
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I really hope they won't cut certain parts that further emphasize the differences between Kiroumaru and Squealer, and underscore why the two are such great foils for each other... Also, random observation: it's been 5 pages and still nobody thought about what could be the reason behind Maria's name? xD (And maybe Mamoru's, too, though perhaps I'm just overthinking it.) She gave birth to the bakenezumi's Messiah... (and look what happened to her) Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-02-23 at 22:05. |
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2013-02-23, 22:13 | Link #94 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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2013-02-23, 22:32 | Link #96 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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@kuromitsu ... so the name Maria signifies that she is the Madonna/Virgin Mary? Is that why we have the overly gratuitous scenes revolving around Saint Maria in the series? If Maria died as a kind of "sacrifice" and her child is likened to the savior ... does this mean he will "crucify" himself as well before the end of the series? The only significance I see in the name "Mamoru" is the meaning of "to protect". But I deconstruct that on so many levels - he needed protection from Kamisu's 66th District or tainted cats; protection by Maria; protection because he couldn't handle the truth like Saki (and thus his emotional meltdown, etc). Sorry, trying to prattle this out since you are the Great Seer of Shinsekai Yori!
Last edited by sonagi; 2013-02-23 at 23:23. |
2013-02-23, 23:03 | Link #97 | ||
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 44
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It is true that they suspect that a Cantu user allied with the Robber Fly colony might be responsible. But if they truly believed a Cantu user was the cause, it's a bit weird that they seem unconcerned at finding out who it could have been. The discussion about the nature of the Robber Fly victory seems to cut off mid-debate, and then we are next shown the Wildlife Team being given their orders (no mention that they should discover who the Cantu user was). So it's difficult to point to a specific reason. Another interesting thing about the meeting is that there appears to be a contradiction in what we are told/shown: Satoru: there was nothing that could be called a weapon [on the battlefield]. Shisei: the battlefield had been wiped clean of possible evidence. Shisei: I have my own theory regarding [the Robber Fly victory], but as I have no proof I'd like to present it last. Yet later on Shisei brings in several undamaged arrows he says he found on the battlefield, and implies that there were more arrows left behind. That simply doesn't make sense considering what Satoru and Shisei reported earlier, and Shisei's claim that he doesn't have any proof. Undamaged arrows would be quite valuable to the Robber Fly colony, in addition to being evidence of their manner of victory. Author screw-up, or something else? |
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2013-02-23, 23:40 | Link #99 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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It seems totally hopeless for humans right now, but I think Kiroumaru will play a key part and kill the fiend. I remember someone saying that before Kiroumaru's army going to war they take some kind of drug. The only choice available is to have someone powerful enough to stall the fiend and let Kiroumaru kill him. I don't know if it possible though, still don't quite get the idea of Cantus and death feedback. If only humans can't kill other humans, maybe why don't let Queerats kill the fiend? Arrows, guns, poison or whatever used by Queerats are possible, no?
About Yakomaru's grand scheme, even he successes in annihilation of humans and building an army of fiends, Queerats will never rule the world. Because Queerats don't process power like fiends do. Someday, fiends will rebel against Queerats. The reason is simple, fiends are superior in power and they are physically different. If Queerats really know history of humans, why would he still rebel knowing that there was a history of racism? Last edited by Frizby; 2013-02-23 at 23:54. |
2013-02-23, 23:58 | Link #100 | |||
_(:q 」∠)_ _(ФωФ*」∠)_
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2005
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They split up from him so he could announce the warning and play the 'going home' record. The black and white shots were of the past, the song helping evoke memories of a once idyllic life, deeply contrasted with the shots of the destruction at present time. Also, I got the impression that the song looped when it shouldn't have, which records can't do on their own, thus how they knew Niimi died as the music ended abruptly. (On this note, I'm pretty sure you can't loop that part of the song so cleanly, but maybe powers help ) |
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