2013-02-10, 11:16 | Link #81 | |||
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But afraid I'm not gonna read One Piece. Waaaay too many chapters to catch up on, and it didn't interest me much when I watched the anime episodes. |
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2013-02-10, 20:34 | Link #82 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Re: Natsu soloing DF Sting and Rogue, that was sooo weird, and a big part of the post-timeskip powerlevel mess. Considering pre-powerup Natsu was struggling with Max, it would mean Second Origin was a frickin' huge powerup. That's unfortunate, since Second Origin was a really lame plot device that they basically got for free. The other problem is Erza got the same powerup, but Kagura still mopped the floor with her. (Unless Gray was right about Erza already having Second Origin, which would make her the only one who got double-screwed by the double-timeskip... But that's not a confirmed thing.) |
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2013-02-11, 01:25 | Link #83 | |
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2013-02-11, 16:04 | Link #85 | |||
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Yeah, that's the funny thing about Second Origin. All it really does is replaced a training montage ending with the words "three months later" with a different but equal power up that lets Mashima poke some fun at Dragonball's Room of Space and Time (aka Hyperbolic Time Chamber) in the process of setting up the need for Second Origin. Second Origin also pretty much explains why some Wizards are far more powerful than others at the same age - through circumstance or genetics, they've already awakened the additional container. Yet despite replacing one boring means of power up, with an equal one that at least explained why some Wizards were powerhouses at a young age, people complain incessantly about it because it wasn't "training". |
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2013-02-11, 17:40 | Link #86 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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^ Maybe we could've had a small arc to address the "training" part. Dunno, some adventure where they find some OP dudes but through the power of nakama they break through (not serious) (maybe).
I dunno, maybe something more interesting. I don't get worked up over it but I think the whole training part could've been made into something far better. |
2013-02-11, 21:53 | Link #87 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Putting aside whether it's parallel to cheating/doping, it's still lame that the cast's single largest powerup to date came as a freebie out of nowhere. It devalues the natural growth from all the life-or-death battles they'd been in up till then.
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2013-02-11, 22:50 | Link #88 | |
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More specifically what people likely are thinking of when they say they wanted "training" is training like Naruto and Hunter x Hunter get. The "Here's a basic ability of your power that you really should have already known if it weren't for circumstances/plot. Use it to develop a new technique for your skill set." The problem is that's training for callow youths. For characters that started the series at the bottom, with essentially no power, no skill set, and are working their way up. That doesn't work in a case like Cell Saga DBZ. Goku already had an essentially full skill set. He didn't need to master a bunch of new special attacks, he needed to increase his base power. The same largely holds true for Fairy Tail. Natsu and Gajeel already have a essentially complete skill set of Dragon Slayer techniques. Gray is proficient with his chosen style of Ice Make. Erza proficient with her armors. Etc, and so forth. There are a few exceptions, but in general they all already possess an essentially complete skill set. Which means the boring, magical equivalent of strength/endurance training to increase their base power is what's required. For example, the training that Lucy was doing that amounted to meditation. For the ones like Lucy and Elfman that do need some expansions to their skill set, it's pretty much just a matter of study and practice. They don't need to be taught a new way of doing things, they just need to apply their existing skills. Again, something best left to a training montage. While a far more reasonable complaint than complaining that they're cheating by getting a work around for a problem only introduced for the sake of comedy, it loses a lot of weight in light of the fact that "the natural growth from all the life-or-death battles" has never been a theme of the series. If it was, sitting down and training safely for three months straight to get all the power increase they would require would be just as equally devaluing to the theme. |
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2013-02-12, 03:35 | Link #89 | |
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2013-02-15, 10:52 | Link #90 |
Awe of She
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Looking at it from a story-telling standpoint and how one can alter the story in the manga... the absense of the 3 months of training takes away at least one episode that could have been a training filler episode or two. Not so much of them actually training but like mtgowns mentioned, one or two adventures to break the montonomy of the training:
A fight between Erza vs Natsu (a real fight like in the beginning of the series) Gray and Juvia training with and against each other... Wendy training against Lucy's Summons with Levy calling out different types of combinations for Lucy to try to guage effectiveness and to push their magic...
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2013-02-15, 14:13 | Link #91 |
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Mashima hasn't done a training chapter, let alone a training arc, since the start of this manga. He's probably not interested in doing one. Looks more like he'd rather write a comedy chapter instead. That's the only reason for second origin. He wanted to give them a power-up, didn't want a training arc, came up with second origin and wrote a comedy chapter to explain the 3 month time-lapse. It's just a one-time thing. It doesn't matter, doesn't make any difference in the end, and it's getting more attention than it warranted.
After so many iterations of hyperbolic time chambers, I'm totally fine with it. Mashima even joked indirectly about the hyperbolic time chamber at the end of that chapter. |
2013-02-16, 11:49 | Link #92 | |
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Besides there were enough of other villains where Natsu could easily lose. Just because he is an MC, doesn't mean he is invincible. This arc is one of them where Natsu could lose without dying. Never watched DBZ so duno what you are talking about. Besides even a typical winning could be portrayed better like for example in Seirei No Mrobito. MC won the fight but she suffered a serious injury that handicapped her. While here no matter what injury they get it is nothing. Makes you wonder why authors even bother creating them. Balsa didn't one shot anyone while every fight in FT tends to end up with one shot even though they got their asses handed to them moments ago. LAME! I could buy it once, twice but not every single time. I watch it because I hope that it will get back on right path. Besides discussions are called that way for a reason. If it was all about fans, they should be called "Fangasm thread". Discussions are meant to talk about both positives and negatives to explore both sides of each show and that's exactly what I'm doing. Not my fault that lately FT is filled with negatives.
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2013-02-16, 14:18 | Link #93 | |
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2013-02-16, 15:08 | Link #94 | |
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So the more realistic version of "Erza puts her enemies down in one hit" would be "Erza puts her enemies down in one hit". |
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2013-02-16, 16:26 | Link #95 | ||
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You don't quite understand how real fights and injuries work, do you? In reality, when two people are sword fighting, it usually is over in one attack. They may clash blades a few times, but then someone manages a gut thrust, or cuts deeply into a limb which hampers someone enough that the fight is essentially over. Even street fights with people going hand-to-hand are usually over in a few moves. People get tired, take a powerful blow to the head or gut, or get a limb broken, and it's over. Very very very few shows actually show realistic fights, because it's not entertaining. Why do you think Pro Wrestling is fake? Because people want to see entertainment, rather than actual competition. Boxing matches can last awhile, but that's because they heavily restrict what you can do, and give frequent breaks. In short, I don't think you really want, or understand, what you say you want. Quote:
Seriously, if the show has gotten so bad, that you hate it this much, then you really should move onto something else. Fairy Tail ain't gonna change, so you're in for more of the same. And you'll simply tick everyone off by being obsessively hate-filled with every post you make. I understand how you feel. You perhaps thought FT was decent at one time and liked it, and now you don't, and thus you feel a little betrayed. You want everyone else to come around to your point of view and hate it as well, as that would justify your self beliefs. It's not going to happen. And even if it did, Fairy Tail would continue on, uncaring of what you or I or anyone else thinks. You'd have to convince a ton of people in Japan to stop reading it. Oh, and you really should watch Dragonball Z. That has the kind of "realism" you are looking for. People die in that series. Lastly, Seirei no Moribito is a decent series with a couple of good fights... but pays for it heavily in it's incredibly slow pacing. They blew their animation budget on their couple of fights, leaving little for everything else. It's also a much different genre than FT, appealing to a different demographic, so can't really be compared. |
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2013-02-16, 22:19 | Link #96 |
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Geez, it's like I'm talking to a rock -_-
You guys only keep hearing what you want to hear to make yourself look better. For starters, an unconscious Natsu in a water would never be able to jump back in a fight. Edward Elric lost several fights like the one with Kimblee yet he still was alive. Tournament is a perfect opportunity to make main cast lose without dying. And by main I don't mean Lucy who gets shortest end of the stick all the time. Seirei No Morbito might be a different genre but there are lots of ways how you could use it's positives in a shounen. By realistic take I did not mean one punch = dead. If character got his leg crashed, it should be crashed all the way through and not just in one page when it was convenient for a shock factor and then fine in next page. Otherwise it is a total waste of time. Also whole lava thing with Arcadius... In reality they wouldn't be able to even stand near it without burning to ashes but I stopped carrying about that detail long ago. However, surviving without any injuries a lava bath is way too much! What's the point of calling it a lava then and get scared?! It simply killed it's whole purpose altogether. I mean really? Everyone: Oh no, Lava! We will die! Arcadius swimming in it Everyone: I guess not... Krono Sadly this so called realistic take only works for main gang. Erza got crap kicked out of her, by that logic she should never be able to stand up ever again. She took hundreds of powerful hits and yet she is fine. However, it took Erza only one simple blow to take her enemy down. It was nothing special, enemy did better than that yet enemy is unconscious while Erza is jumping around happy like nothing happened. It is very one sided standard. How could anyone in right mind enjoy it after 100th time is beyond me. Won't argue, shounen gradually turns into the most pathetic genre I have ever seen. It clearly is meant for children who don't care about logic. Most of them don't even know what logic is anyway. The only reason why I still watch shounen from time to time, is to find gems like FMA. I don't know how well things will go later but right now Magi has a potential to be great.
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2013-02-16, 22:52 | Link #97 |
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Age: 46
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omg, how a thread about erza turning in thread about manga/anime gender????, about natsu? and about dbz? traning?(lol it's ok if erza still in the middle of the chat but when she vanish completely from the topic then the things start to look really wrong.
wtf kitten320 you can stop to being a hater and complainer? along this forum??? or you want another round of deleted posts????, if you dont like FT then "dont read/watch" it's simple this is not that "Seirei No Mrobito" who you want, stop of compare, this is the worst argument for haters when their start to compare two completely differents works(even different demograph like shounen and seinen), if fairy tail is so boring so bad for you go watch magi it's simple dont waste your time watching something just for the sake of hate, and dont make all this off topic(end even when you are on topic is just for hate). it seems that some people do not know the difference between hate, dislike, complain and criticize... criticize: when in "your personnal opnion you dislked something and maybe for yourself only(and maybe others peoples with the same opnion) can be better in other way(not forcing your personnal opnion in the others peoples) showing really valid and good arguments(with some little exceptions of just hate/complain) dislike: when you simple dont like something, this dont means "hate"(dislike and hate are two completely different things) however you can also "hate" hate: when you simple hate something and start to "bash and complain about that thing trying to force your personal opinion (hate) above the opnion of other, and using excuses to make comparations with others things just to find more reasons to hate. complain: bash and complain about what you hate and dont give any positive argument about that thing, just looking at his faults (and in severe cases even creating new defects), without ever pointing the positives and making comparations even completely without logic. about the lava thing, i think was explainned who he survived because he was wearing a "jade necklace" who the princess give to him who have some sort of jade dragon power who protected him from the lava and also the horologium who caught him when that protection started to fail, this is a manga/anime/cartoon/magazine logic if you dont like, dont complain. Last edited by ellessarr; 2013-02-17 at 11:20. |
2013-02-17, 04:24 | Link #98 | |
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And before you say anything, I had no problem with her fight with Azuma since that fight was not as one-sided as her fight with Ikaruga or Kagura (eh, confusing names) with both contenders drawing equal (although, censored ) blood from start to finish. Last edited by Pinwheel10; 2013-02-17 at 08:20. Reason: Just had to add that italicized part |
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2013-02-17, 07:55 | Link #99 |
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ellessarr
If you didn't notice, you guys are the ones forcing your opinion down my throat just because I don't agree. My comments were originally Erza based only yet you people started to prove your point by bringing whole cast into a discussion which simply shows that you are the ones losing the argument since you can't stay on topic. I simply replied to questions I was asked, I don't see my fault here. Besides it is clearly useless talking to you people, you see only what you want to see and keep twisting my words and missing the point. Different genres or not, you can easily use positives of each one in another. Also telling me to drop something that I started to watch when only 25 episodes were out is harsh. I also was one of the people who insisted on bringing this show onto the main thread. It really is not that easy to drop something with what you've been so closely connected for years. It is just sad to see it fall apart like that after having so much potential I don't remember necklace part but if that's the case, I take my comment back. It is enough of an excuse, at least it means that others would not survive it. Pinwheel10 That's exactly my main issue! No matter who(good guy), though for Erza it became very common, and how much damage they get, they are always fine. However, for them it just takes one strike to take enemy down even though they received more beating till now. I won't even bother saying word "sense" since you people keep twisting its meaning so I'll simply say "ONE SIDED" and "UNFAIR". It makes villains look pathetic like if their punch = baby slap. In Kagura's case it was so much worse because she unshielded "powerful" sword of hers and yet got shit kicked out even though she did so well with shielded one. Why empethise on her sword when it was nothing special? Anyway I'm stopping here, it is clear that we won't get anywhere. We keep seeing things differently.
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Last edited by kitten320; 2013-02-17 at 08:08. |
2013-02-17, 09:41 | Link #100 |
Awe of She
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...the 'one strike' is a cultural thing for the Japanese. No matter how much one dislikes it popping out in a manga, it won't go away, even if one thinks that the situation is not good for it.
This isn't the first time that Erza's one-shotted someone who was strong (Aria) while she was pretty much 'on the ropes' as well, having taken a head-on shot from Jupiter back then too. She's taken down Midnight easily and nearly all of her opponents have been taken out within a few moves. Azuma's pretty much the only guy who's made Erza go the distance and he would have won if he didn't use Fairy Tail's own magic against her. Erza is over-powered, so is Laxus and Gildartz. Those three are nearly impossible to beat conventionally. That's the entire point. Laxus lost to Natsu and Gajeel because he lost his cool. Take Laxus mentally out of the fight and you can win it - if Laxus keeps his head together, you're done for.
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