Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series

[darkone45]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Simply put, Sunrise is succeed on doing IBO as Barbatos Promotion: The Animation.

oh well I guess it doesn't really matter for sunrise in the end they can IBO make as violent as they want as long as they make money off kits and they take care of the other Complaints from the fans about pacing in season 2 that way its a one win situation for everybody ( except the minority nobody cares about them )

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

Essentially, I feel this show is a case of "suppress expectations, and be pleasantly surprised. Set expectations of another sweeping space opera full of individuals that change the course of human history through daring deeds and enough piloting skills to trash entire fleets with a single Gundam? Nope."

I think that is right. IBO was never meant to be an epic series where we see our MC change the tide of a big war that’s happening between two large factions. Heck, there’s no war whatsoever throughout this first season of IBO. So, in a way, this is even more smaller in scale even compared to low-key series like X or Turn-A. IBO is a series about a newly-established PMC commandeered by child soldiers and the story remained intimately that way by following the action of the Iron-Flower kids and Chocoman.

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

I mean sure, one can make the argument that IBO is supposed to be a more constrained and low-key sort of thing, but as I recall, 08th MS team was low-key in terms of scale, and was still a terrific watch.

Well, IBO certainly doesn’t have beam weapons, Mobile Armor that can fly around and blow up a mountain in one shot, or as much explosion as 08th MS Team. But in their place, we get more brutal battles that involve massive melee weapons where MSs pummel each other into submission and pilots died in a more gruesome ways (without much explosion) that can only be matched by Tomino’s Victory Gundam deaths. And we also have more tactical battles involving ships that can only be matched by Sumeragi’s tactics in Gundam 00 and Natarle’s calculated methods in Gundam SEED. When it comes to the intimacy in the story, rather than 08th MS Team, IBO is more comparable to Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket.

All in all, what I can gather from the case of IBO is this: some Gundam fans really need to be more open-minded and more accepting of different ideas, concept and execution of newer Gundam series (as long as it’s good) or else the Gundam franchise will become stagnant and boring. Series like G Gundam, Tun-A, 00, GBF & IBO which break away from the usual pattern are a breath of fresh air that the franchise needed. Believe it or not, but there are Gundam fans out there who despise IBO just because it doesn’t have beam weapons and the Gundams are not as OP as many other series. I mean, really? .


EDIT:

Originally Posted by Tactics

I already listed some of their complaints in IBO General Discussion Thread. Don't bother to read it if you're with "Majority praises IBO" or "IBO perform amazingly". LOL.

I'm not from the "IBO hype train"-camp, and I did read your post there. But I tend to prefer reading professional reviews who elaborate more on the show for each episode or in overall (English, of course) than mere comments. And most of those English reviews have been quite positive toward IBO (from ANN to Reno Gazette Journal). Is there an equivalent of an elaborate reviews about IBO by notable reviewers in Japan, and can you translate it? I surely would like to read it.

[darkone45]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

]G Gundam[/I], Tun-A, 00, GBF & IBO which break away from the usual pattern are a breath of fresh air that the franchise needed. Believe it or not, but there are Gundam fans out there who despise IBO just because it doesn’t have beam weapons and the Gundams are not as OP as many other series. I mean, really? .

No way I don't Believe that, nobody is that closed Minded like really over Beams ?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by darkone45

No way I don't Believe that, nobody is that closed Minded like really over Beams ?

Yep, and the fact that the Gundams are weak (as in, it can't blow up an MS or a building easily in one shot). Don't know if they're trolls or not.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I'm not from the "IBO hype train"-camp, and I did read your post there. But I tend to prefer reading professional reviews who elaborate more on the show for each episode or in overall (English, of course) than mere comments. And most of those English reviews have been quite positive toward IBO (from ANN to Reno Gazette Journal). Is there an equivalent of an elaborate reviews about IBO by notable reviewers in Japan, and can you translate it? I surely would like to read it.

As far as I concerned, there's none, especially anime.

Why? Most likely because reviewers tend to polite to both studios and fans, means they'll usually goes to positive reviews. CMIIW.
Hence the most notable way to measure Japanese audience reception (some studio even did it IIRC) is by looking at rating and criticism through net. If you're expecting a constructive sentence came in beautiful words in an organized column, I'd say you won't see it.

Blunt (sometimes direct) criticism, combined with joke, happens more often than a length of words to justify final verdict score like Westerners do.
Don't expect Westerners reviews representing what Japanese audience feels. For example, I remember there's west reviewers said Konosuba is mediocre, while its anime popularity in Japan turned out to surprises even the director.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Yep, and the fact that the Gundams are weak (as in, it can't blow up an MS or a building easily in one shot). Don't know if they're trolls or not.

To be fair, I think someone can be allowed not to like those things. In a franchise where mechs play a big role, I think it's fine not to like because the mecha don't fit the criteria we personally find interesting. I think it's fine for people not to like IBO because it's Gundams are not powerful or it doesn't have beams or that we don't like the mecha designs. On that very same token, it's totally fine to like the way IBO handles it too.

Not everyone has to like the things we like in a show interesting. I like the way mechs and the technology are handled in IBO but at the same time if there are people who don't like it then it's fine too - there are quite a number of shows who I don't enjoy precisely because their mechs were handled in a way that I didn like.

On that note, Barbatos has one shotted mobile suits in this show with guns. I remember doing it at least twice in fact.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Why? Most likely because reviewers tend to polite to both studios and fans, means they'll usually goes to positive reviews. CMIIW.

Oh, believe me, they don’t. If they feel a show sucks then they will certainly criticize it, elaborate on it, and describe it in length about how bad it is (politeness be damned).

Originally Posted by Tactics

If you're expecting a constructive sentence came in beautiful words in an organized column, I'd say you won't see it.

Well, that's too bad . All those writing talents, and no one want to do thorough reviews on anime series?

Originally Posted by Tactics

Blunt (sometimes direct) criticism, combined with joke, happens more often than a length of words to justify final verdict score like Westerners do.
Don't expect Westerners reviews representing what Japanese audience feels. For example, I remember there's west reviewers said Konosuba is mediocre, while its anime popularity in Japan turned out to surprises even the director.

Konosuba is a show that geared very closely on hardcore Japanese otakus. And naturally, I don’t rely too much on western reviews for that kind of shows. Like Carnival Phantasm, OreImo or Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata, I really enjoy Konosuba and I understand the appeal of that type of shows better than some western viewers out there because some jokes, tropes and references are lost on them.

On the other hand, Gundam (especially AU series) is an anime with a more “universal” appeal compared to shows like Konosuba. It’s really easy for western (or even mainstream movie) reviewers to review and judge it because Gundam never rely on audiences’ knowledge of anime-tropes and clichés (except homage series like GBF or outright comedy/spoof like Gundam-san). Their stories are rather serious and straightforward like war movies and their message is clear. Thanks to that, the western reviewers are able to dig deeper into the theme and some even notice the smallest details. Have you read an article about a reviewer who revealed the Japanese nationalism that’s inserted (if not hidden) in Gunbuster? It’s fascinating what the (western or English-based) reviewers and bloggers can discover if they fully grasp the anime they’re into, hence my preference toward western reviews when it comes to anime like Gundam, Black Lagoon, Berserk, Jormungand, Claymore, Gangsta, Attack on Titans, etc.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by SonicSP

To be fair, I think someone can be allowed not to like those things. In a franchise where mechs play a big role, I think it's fine not to like because the mecha don't fit the criteria we personally find interesting. I think it's fine for people not to like IBO because it's Gundams are not powerful or it doesn't have beams or that we don't like the mecha designs. On that very same token, it's totally fine to like the way IBO handles it too.

Not everyone has to like the things we like in a show interesting. I like the way mechs and the technology are handled in IBO but at the same time if there are people who don't like it then it's fine too - there are quite a number of shows who I don't enjoy precisely because their mechs were handled in a way that I didn like.

On that note, Barbatos has one shotted mobile suits in this show with guns. I remember doing it at least twice in fact.

I'm fine with people disliking (or even hating) the mecha aspect of a Gundam show. I, however, will not take someone who bash the entirety of the series (plot, etc) just because they think the mecha-part sucks seriously. Take me for example: I dislike the majority of the mechas in Code Geass (I especially loath the "roller feet" design coz it's ridiculous imo), but I can still judge the story and characters fairly despite that.

[darkone45]

Originally Posted by Tactics

As far as I concerned, there's none, especially anime.

Why? Most likely because reviewers tend to polite to both studios and fans, means they'll usually goes to positive reviews. CMIIW.
Hence the most notable way to measure Japanese audience reception (some studio even did it IIRC) is by looking at rating and criticism through net. If you're expecting a constructive sentence came in beautiful words in an organized column, I'd say you won't see it.

Blunt (sometimes direct) criticism, combined with joke, happens more often than a length of words to justify final verdict score like Westerners do.
Don't expect Westerners reviews representing what Japanese audience feels. For example, I remember there's west reviewers said Konosuba is mediocre, while its anime popularity in Japan turned out to surprises even the director.

do the Japanese people know about how we feel when it comes to IBO ?

[SonicSP]

On that note, isn't Seed Destiny really well received in Japan but badly received over here in the English-side?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

On that note, isn't Seed Destiny really well received in Japan but badly received over here in the English-side?

It sure did. GSD even won Anime Grand Prix for best anime for the respective year IIRC.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Oh, believe me, they don’t. If they feel a show sucks then they will certainly criticize it, elaborate on it, and describe it in length about how bad it is (politeness be damned).

Well, that's too bad . All those writing talents, and no one want to do thorough reviews on anime series?

Different country, different culture. That's all I can say.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Konosuba is a show that geared very closely on hardcore Japanese otakus. And naturally, I don’t rely too much on western reviews for that kind of shows. Like Carnival Phantasm, OreImo or Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata, I really enjoy Konosuba and I understand the appeal of that type of shows better than some western viewers out there because some jokes, tropes and references are lost on them.

Geared on hardcore Japanese otaku? Its like you're saying people need to be an avid shounen manga reader to understand jokes on Gintama.

Also, those three shows you used as example, while it seems like only hardcore otaku can understand that, in Japan, its already like common knowledge for otaku. Carnival Phantasm characters traits and joke, Saekano trope issues, as well as portrayal in OreImo, in Japan itself wasn't something only hardcore otaku can understand. Do remember that their primary audience is Japanese people, not us. The standard is already different from start.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

On the other hand, Gundam (especially AU series) is an anime with a more “universal” appeal compared to shows like Konosuba. It’s really easy for western (or even mainstream movie) reviewers to review and judge it because Gundam never rely on audiences’ knowledge of anime-tropes and clichés (except homage series like GBF or outright comedy/spoof like Gundam-san). Their stories are rather serious and straightforward like war movies and their message is clear. Thanks to that, the western reviewers are able to dig deeper into the theme and some even notice the smallest details. Have you read an article about a reviewer who revealed the Japanese nationalism that’s inserted (if not hidden) in Gunbuster? It’s fascinating what the (western or English-based) reviewers and bloggers can discover if they fully grasp the anime they’re into, hence my preference toward western reviews when it comes to anime like Gundam, Black Lagoon, Berserk, Jormungand, Claymore, Gangsta, Attack on Titans, etc.

EDIT:
I'm fine with people disliking (or even hating) the mecha aspect of a Gundam show. I, however, will not take someone who bash the entirety of the series (plot, etc) just because they think the mecha-part sucks seriously. Take me for example: I dislike the majority of the mechas in Code Geass (I especially loath the "roller feet" design coz it's ridiculous imo), but I can still judge the story and characters fairly despite that.

I haven't read about nationalism and Gunbuster but I already saw how every hardcore Evangelion fans may be able to wrote paper about the series, even connecting those details of the original to the latest releases, and that happened for both Japanese and non-Japanese fans.

Originally Posted by darkone45

do the Japanese people know about how we feel when it comes to IBO ?

Even if they know, it won't held any special meaning for them but maybe Bandai and Sunrise executives, especially regarding kit sales.

[xeviouses]

Just remember guys, most (if not all) of these shows are made with the Japanese in mind. Different culture, different views, different expectations and different likes.

Shame the japanese don't do show reviews outside of their forums, it would be interesting to see what their expectations are.

The Barbatos kit being the only one well off in sales is kinda expected, even before it aired the mech designs in IBO were already splitting fanbases, especially on the thin waist part.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Geared on hardcore Japanese otaku? Its like you're saying people need to be an avid shounen manga reader to understand jokes on Gintama.

Maybe I should revise that to “geared towards otaku”? without the “hardcore” part? Unlike AU Gundams, you at least need to have experience in serious medieval, adventure, Isekai, or RPG-based games or anime before you can enjoy all the comedy in Konosuba. While many (if not most) AU Gundams can be anyone’s gateway into anime (especially for kids who still don’t know much about complex games or anime tropes). Clearly, there’s a difference in enjoyment levels here between shows like Konosuba/Saekano/OreImo and AU Gundams. And yes, in fact, there are some (non-Japanese) audience who didn’t get the jokes in Gintama. That’s why many of them gave up and dropped it after they tried a few episodes of it .

Originally Posted by Tactics

Also, those three shows you used as example, while it seems like only hardcore otaku can understand that, in Japan, its already like common knowledge for otaku. Carnival Phantasm characters traits and joke, Saekano trope issues, as well as portrayal in OreImo, in Japan itself wasn't something only hardcore otaku can understand. Do remember that their primary audience is Japanese people, not us. The standard is already different from start.

I was talking about “universal appeal”, not just Japanese appeal. I’m not a fool (and don’t treat me like one ), I do know for a fact that most anime are made for domestic audience. But shows that I listed (eg. Gundam, Black Lagoon, Berserk, Jormungand, Claymore, Gangsta, Attack on Titan, Doraemon) have more universal appeal than shows like Saekano. Don’t believe me? Try showing Saekano to casual anime watchers who likes romatic comedy but not well-versed on galge/dating sims/eroge. They’ll most likely be lost on what was mostly discussed by the characters in it (especially regarding Utaha’s angst towards the MC). On the contrary, try showing any AU Gundams to casual anime watchers who like robot-actions. Chances are, they’ll understand 70-90% of what’s happening in the show once they finished it (my little cousin sure did, after watching Gundam X ).

Originally Posted by Tactics

I haven't read about nationalism and Gunbuster but I already saw how every hardcore Evangelion fans may be able to wrote paper about the series, even connecting those details of the original to the latest releases, and that happened for both Japanese and non-Japanese fans.

Too bad those Japanese didn't make an article about it that's not just a list.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I, however, will not take someone who bash the entirety of the series (plot, etc) just because they think the mecha-part sucks seriously.

It's probably a matter of what is considered a main attraction. If the mecha part is the main attraction for someone, and that someone doesn't like how that part is presented in a particular show, the entire viewing experience of that show might be unenjoyable unless the rest of the show manages to offset that loss.

So I believe that people who are bashing the entirety of a series based on only one part of the show is implicitly declaring that, to them, the rest of that series did not manage to compensate for the poor presentation of that one part.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Maybe I should revise that to “geared towards otaku”? without the “hardcore” part? Unlike AU Gundams, you at least need to have experience in serious medieval, adventure, Isekai, or RPG-based games or anime before you can enjoy all the comedy in Konosuba. While many (if not most) AU Gundams can be anyone’s gateway into anime (especially for kids who still don’t know much about complex games or anime tropes). Clearly, there’s a difference in enjoyment levels here between shows like Konosuba/Saekano/OreImo and AU Gundams. And yes, in fact, there are some (non-Japanese) audience who didn’t get the jokes in Gintama. That’s why many of them gave up and dropped it after they tried a few episodes of it .

I was talking about “universal appeal”, not just Japanese appeal. I’m not a fool (and don’t treat me like one ), I do know for a fact that most anime are made for domestic audience. But shows that I listed (eg. Gundam, Black Lagoon, Berserk, Jormungand, Claymore, Gangsta, Attack on Titan, Doraemon) have more universal appeal than shows like Saekano. Don’t believe me? Try showing Saekano to casual anime watchers who likes romatic comedy but not well-versed on galge/dating sims/eroge. They’ll most likely be lost on what was mostly discussed by the characters in it (especially regarding Utaha’s angst towards the MC). On the contrary, try showing any AU Gundams to casual anime watchers who like robot-actions. Chances are, they’ll understand 70-90% of what’s happening in the show once they finished it (my little cousin sure did, after watching Gundam X ).

> Experience on serious medieval, adventures, etc.

No. Not really IMO.

> Don't believe me?

I'm not implying you're a fool or somewhat among that lines. FYI, I just adding a bit detail regarding 'need to be a hardcore otaku to understand those shows (Carnival Phantasm, Saekano and OreImo)' which I thought including Japanese by your opinion. Why universal appeal need to be brought again? I don't remember voicing disagreement or problem with Gundam, Black Lagoon, Jormungand, etc. universal appeal.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tactics

> Experience on serious medieval, adventures, etc.

No. Not really IMO.

I spoke from real-life experience. I showed Konosuba to my 15 yo cousin who only knows about Naruto and such, who's not a gamer, and not that experienced with fantasy/Isekai/RPG outside of Hollywood movies. It was during a boring day when he recently stayed in my house. I wanted to know his reaction to some animes (Konosuba being one of them). Want to know his overall impression on the first 4 eps of Konosuba? A big "Meh". Apparently, he only gets 50% of the jokes at most and thought that it's just okay. So there you go.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Why universal appeal need to be brought again? I don't remember voicing disagreement or problem with Gundam, Black Lagoon, Jormungand, etc. universal appeal.

Because I count in universal appeal the moment I was talking about western reviews on IBO.

[darkone45]

Which reminds me when is this Dub coming ? they said early 2016 but were almost Mid 2016 is it safe to say they lied ?