2006-12-06, 12:24 | Link #82 | ||||
Μ ε r c ü r υ
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Last edited by Sazelyt; 2006-12-06 at 12:42. |
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2006-12-06, 12:48 | Link #83 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Before you rush to the petty comments maybe you'd like to explain how:
- Yondaime's jutsu giving clearly noticeable advantage to the user - Yondaime's jutsu achieving instant kill. Can possibly mean the same thing. Unless you were referring to something else different (in which case would have been way offtopic considering the argument which has been goiing on for the last two pages) then Im not seeing the common ground. AFAIK, the first means you get a lot of bonuses by using it, which wasnt being disputed at any point. The second however means using Hirashin is an instant kill, which is what is being debated, considering theres always exceptions / weird variations in combat situations. |
2006-12-06, 12:54 | Link #84 | ||
Naruto = Painful
Join Date: Jan 2006
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He prb has a to either go backward foward or on top of the person upside down. Besides, from what it seems like he can be at multiple places at the same time with this jutsu or if you like teleport through each seal at 0 seconds = same thing. There are some disadvantages though. 1) If the seal is seen than some can have a kage bunshin ready or a partner knowing that he will come. (I'm sure yondy can counter this, but point being he'd have to counter it since it is a flaw). 2) Something that goes 360 like kaiten, with some super crazy good anticipation. 3) If he has a an "escape" seal have a trap there. 4) If you know that he placed a seal on you; somehow switch it w/ a fake and than when yondy teleports to where you think you are instead you place the seal over a deep canyon or bed of spikes. 5) Suicide bomber! Some jutsu where if you get hit or make contact you blow up (or a kage bunshin!) But with this said, someone dumb using this jutsu would get caught. I doubt yondy would be dumb enough to get caught in these b/c in all reality this is a MONSTER jutsu. I think Naruto would be good with this jutsu b/c even though he is done he can think a couple of steps ahead and be rather innovative with his jutsu. He's got some "fighting smarts" but common sense ouch... Kinda like those really book smart ppl that have no common sense. |
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2006-12-06, 15:27 | Link #87 | ||||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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@ Johnny 5
Not all those weakness actually comply with the mechanics of the jutsu. Quote:
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I don't anyone mentioned these obviously tough match-ups for the Hiraishin. One would be opponents who travel mostly underground like Zetsu make Hiraishin useless for offense. Also, enemies who are airborne like Deidara can be high enough to be out of range of the kunai tags. Maybe |
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2006-12-06, 15:57 | Link #88 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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And no .. you said it. Im asking for clarification and you are acting like Im the one who made the comment. If you forgot your point or cant back it up ... just let it go. |
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2006-12-06, 16:10 | Link #89 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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"Mobius: Which is what Ive been saying, yet these fanboys make it seem anyone with Hirashin instantly become perfect killers." That came after the discussions that were mainly pointing out the advantage it can provide to the user rather than making them instant killers. |
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2006-12-06, 17:33 | Link #92 | |
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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Besides, we are forgetting about the part of IF the person using Hirashin could tag the intended opponent..Could Gemma place a tag to a Shinoby Like Itachi, who is predicting every of your movement? And Could this tag, after been placed be removed? This Justsu is not the uber-mega-pwning justu as every Fanboy wants to think it is...as Hunter said this is not an "alpha and omega jutsu".
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2006-12-06, 18:05 | Link #93 | |
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Anyway, at the beginning I specifically mentioned that, for the discussion to be applied, the user needs to be highly experienced in Yondaime's jutsu (meaning knowing every single strength and weakness of it perfectly). |
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2006-12-06, 18:20 | Link #94 | ||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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And even getting close to the Sharingan user, the Kunai will still be at a distance were the HIrahisn user would need to make movement to try to place the final tag or blow, at the end, this is the same thing as to try and do it without Using the Tagged Kunais..and how many Kunais would the user have? 10 at most? I even say the Jutsu cant be use in a way the opponent is aware that the other person is using it. If you know the location of the Tag, you already will know were the opponent will be next.
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2006-12-06, 18:52 | Link #96 | ||
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2006-12-06, 19:16 | Link #97 | ||||
Golden
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 45
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For instance SHikamru can place a Tag in a place ( a rock fro example) and by using his Tactician skills, could make his opponent end up in the place he left the Kunai. The problem of Hirahsin lies in the placement of the Tag, and doing it directly to a SHinoby who is in a higher level than you, proves to be as difficult as anything there is. And for the record, Im looking for the flaws of the Jutsu against anybody, not just Sharingan. Quote:
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2006-12-07, 20:14 | Link #98 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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It makes world of a difference.When your saying it isnt "that" much of a difference ,relative to what? shunshin speed is is all relative. When gai disappeared and reappeard behind team7 in chunnin exam and if he used that exact same speed to kakashi , kakashi can already see him. Its not the same. So when ur saying "make basically no difference at all if you're so fast that your opponent can't see you." relative to what? shunshin vs shunshin or shunshin vs hirashin ... if its the latter then its make a huge difference.keep in mind that shunshin has movement and hirashin doesnt. Shunshin can be seen cuz it has movement whereas hirashin doesnt, he can appear behind,top,left , right etc.. cant be seen. To simplify it further, which is faster? .01s vs .001s? or some one can use shunshin so fast like .000000001s but then again there is .00000000000000000001s, again .000000000000000000001s < 0s . It makes a world of difference. Thats why hirashin is a s rank jutsu and shunshin is low lvl jutsu. Is it s rank because it was used by yondaime? i dont believe so. Hirashin is a space time jutsu. In kakashi gaiden yondaime shown that he can align himself in flight before he arrived. He had his kunai at the rocknins neck when he appeared , without any movements. Can hiarshin be counter? definetly but not by reflexes or whatever. Consider the fact, I dont know the exact ratio but its defenitely require greater speed to move or use hand seals and for yondaime use his normal speed to stab you at that distance. Its quite a differenece in speed to overcome. Again, thats why when yondaime "tagged" you it ment mark of death. |
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2006-12-07, 20:36 | Link #99 |
Infie
Fansubber
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
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Well let's see... Speedy Teleporting or the Speed of Teleporting? That's a big fault I see in this. No matter with any level of skill...If it takes you say 0.00000001seconds to teleport to say from Earth to Pluto and Run/Fly/whatever from Earth to Pluto in 0.00000009 seconds then that's all the difference. Because a Speedy Teleporter can be beaten by Teleporting Speed. It's really a matter of the user and in this thread that can make as much sense as it can get from us.
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2006-12-08, 02:04 | Link #100 | |||||
Naruto = Painful
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Well, that's true, but only if he teleports back. Like with the Rock nin he didn't have a tag to teleport back to (not including Kakashi's). So if for some reason he doesn't have a seal at his original position than he might just teleport to where he thought the tag was and than *AMBUSH* ~ think some n00by that wasn't thinking ahead Quote:
However, if it was some regular gennin or noob w/ the same technique than you wouldn't need as much anticipation. Quote:
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