Lucky Star - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by Risaa

If the original content were boring, it wouldn't have been popular enough for there to be an anime based off of it. Though I guess some people really would find it boring - everyone's tastes are different; I personally really like it.

Out of all the references, I really dislike the SHnY ones the most.... but I'll admit it's more of a personal thing than just having a grudge against it. I've spent months listening to friends ramble about how great it is, sending me pictures and lines from it and all sorts of things, and I just got sick of it. I *like* the series, but I don't *love* it enough to let it invade every aspect of my life. Aah... but I'm getting off topic.

Edit:
Again, different strokes for different folks. I liked the pastry part.

It is slice of life 4 panel comic so lack of plot is understandable or dry monologues on chocolate pastry. But yeah, I can relate to overexposure of Haruhi. Too much of it, and even the best material can be bland really quick.

What I try to say this, people having different expectation of Lucky Star and they get something else entirely. Dissonance of adjustment and expectation, I will say.

[Vexx]

Apparently, we're interpreting the show quite differently. "lack of plot" really equals "you don't see a plot" and "dry monologues" really equals "you didn't notice the joke". A lot of the jokes are subtle (though not invisible) and the plot is somewhat simple (the journey of a group of girls through their high school years and the daily happenings thereof). But then I've also just described Azumanga Daioh (from which L*S obviously owes homage to), one of the better anime ever produced.

But you're correct: many, many people came into L*S thinking they were going to get some kind of Haruhi.... those people had not seen the 4-koma. Actually, quite a few of them didn't seem to know a comic existed.

I expected a nice adaptation of the 4-koma with original extended material. Why? Because previously, KyoAni was pretty good about being true to the source (SHnY, Kanon, etc). Also, I felt like the source material was pretty good, a nice descendant of Azumanga Daioh (that is also a 4-koma that translated into a pretty popular long-running series using mostly only the source material of a four volume set), so it didn't really need a lot of help. I was expecting a similar treatment for L*S, I admit.

Unfortunately, someone on the team seems to view L*S as an easy advertising or pseudo-hip-reference-insertion vehicle rather than a charming show in itself. So those of us who are fans of L*S (as in the source material) seem to be getting shoved aside at times in favor of another set of fans.

I think Haruhi is great.... and I'll watch Haruhi when I want to see Haruhi stuff. As I kind of rudely stated elsewhere, I'd like to watch LUCKY*STAR when I fire off a Lucky*Star episode.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Nah... what I'm actually doing is flipping through the books going "yes... yes... no... no..." and gathering a not-so-rough estimate. Sometimes I slow down if a section was "sort of done" (meaning the some other similar incident was portrayed).

I've got a website to knock out tonight so too much derail is a Bad Thing.

I'll edit this in a minute but let me first warn you, it's already been done.
http://www.syu-ta.com/luckystar/luckystar.shtml Scroll down under the reference section and you get which ones were used in which ep.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I didn't feel much one way or the other about the brief presentation of the SH no Gekisou concert itself. If I want see some of that show, I'll watch the trailer for the DVD. But I was interested that they seemed to make a point, with both Aya and previously with Minorin, of not having the cartoon image look much like the real person. And I did enjoy the fact that they made her hair so light -- far lighter than she has ever really dyed it -- as a sort of joke at the expense of the otaku who kept complaining about her dyeing it at all. In this case, I do get the references, lol.

I found the whole concert whole thing very amusing. From the AX panels and from the handful of times I've looked at her blog, Aya Hirano comes off very Konata like. So therefore we have....
Someone just like aya hirano, who is voiced by aya hirano, who is too short to see over a guy wearing a red sos jacket (note: that jacket is famous, i'm not sure if they purposely did something or not here, but this might be something which could be again tied to hirano), trying to watch aya hirano on stage sing.

It's this really kinda amusing effect of having a character watching their VA.

Also, Konata is an otaku and these are all very otakuish things. It isn't like it is completely out of character.

[stormy001_M1A2]

The thing is, Azumanga Daioh did a good job in parodying character archetypes, but Lucky Star is going around the bush a bit wee too many times. I seriously unable to see any plot coming out from Lucky Star or even Azumanga but it is fine since it did a good job in expanding principal players in the story. However Lucky Star did not. Kyoto Animation is well noted for their faithful adaptation of source material which is laudable but perhaps they should be more careful choosing the source material next time. I think they make a big mistake here, choosing Lucky Star. (yes, flame me as much as you want, people)

What so subtle about way eating a chocolate pastry? Does it justify 10 minutes of airing time?

I looked at the source material and I have to admit, the jokes went above my head as I don't see what so funny about them. Cute yes, sometimes amusing but funny? Not really.

But yeah, we both looking at same sunset from different hills, it seems.

As for viral marketing insertion, it is obvious. I mean they tried to promote the unsold phone cards rather blatantly in the anime or not so discreet in promoting Minoru Shirashi. I also heard this series suffered a lot of casualties in directorial department. Rumors though, so someone perhaps can enlighten me about it.

[Vexx]

@bayoab: Wow... thanks. hmmm, rats.. this is one of those sites where even though I have all the Asian fonts installed, AppLocale updated, and can read many asian sites --- this one rings up in some Elder God gibberish:

�w‚ç‚«�™‚·‚½�xŠe˜bƒpƒ�ƒfƒB�•ƒlƒ^‚Ü‚Æ‚ß

I've never quite figured out which font/code to use on these particular sites despite trying the entire set (using Firefox). Meanwhile I can pop over to amazon.co.jp, any seiyuu's site, almost anywhere else and its completely readable

@stormy: You're probably not familiar(?) with George Burns and Gracie Allen (two comedians of the 20th Century) who would do multi-minute routines quite similiar to the coronet food gag. There's an element of absurdist comedy, paced timing, the comedic tension, and the cyclic nature of discussion ... and in this instance, coupled with Kona's obsession nature.
If you've seen The Cheese Shop sketch in Monty Python's Flying Circus, it is structurally similiar (and since its more recent you might find it on youtube).

Also, the coronet and food itself is secondary to what is really going on. The sketch is also communicating something about the personalities of each girl since you're meeting them for the first time.

Fundamentally... yeah, this type of humor is like Monty Python in that people tend to either fall into hysterics or sit there and mutter "is this supposed to be funny?"

I won't say L*S is as good at it as AzuDa ... it is derivative in that respect. But it updates characters so that they're doing the kinds of things girls in 2007 would be doing. (AzuDa was set pretty much early Internet, pre-cell, pre-gaming culture). I'll wait til the anime series is over before I'll take a stab at whether they created the same level of personality that AzuDa was able to create for those girls.

[AVPlaya]

Originally Posted by bayoab

I'll edit this in a minute but let me first warn you, it's already been done.
http://www.syu-ta.com/luckystar/luckystar.shtml Scroll down under the reference section and you get which ones were used in which ep.

That's a great link, thanks! I'm sure Vexx or Rissa can do a prettier job though.

Vexx-dono: it looks to be a Shift_JIS site on my firefox.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Wow... thanks. hmmm, this is one of those sites where even though I have all the Asian fonts installed, AppLocale updated, and can read many asian sites --- this one rings up in some Elder God gibberish:

�w‚ç‚«�™‚·‚½�xŠe˜bƒpƒ�ƒfƒB�•ƒlƒ^‚Ü‚Æ‚ß

I've never quite figured out which font/code to use on these despite trying the entire set (using Firefox). Meanwhile I can pop over to amazon.co.jp, any seiyuu's site, almost anywhere else and its completely readable

In order of most common to least common use on japanese sites:
Shift-jis (Which it is in this case)
EUC-JP
UTF (of some sort)
ISO-2022

They need a Konata mojibake sequence...

[Vexx]

thanks again... hmmm, I always assumed it was some sort of UTF variant.

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

That's a great link, thanks! I'm sure Vexx or Rissa can do a prettier job though.

I've already had someone volunteer to be my webhost. XD

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by Vexx

@stormy: You're probably not familiar(?) with George Burns and Gracie Allen (two comedians of the 20th Century) who would do multi-minute routines quite similiar to the coronet food gag. There's an element of absurdist comedy, paced timing, the comedic tension, and the cyclic nature of discussion ... and in this instance, coupled with Kona's obsession nature.
If you've seen The Cheese Shop sketch in Monty Python's Flying Circus, it is structurally similiar (and since its more recent you might find it on youtube).

Also, the coronet and food itself is secondary to what is really going on. The sketch is also communicating something about the personalities of each girl since you're meeting them for the first time.

Fundamentally... yeah, this type of humor is like Monty Python in that people tend to either fall into hysterics or sit there and mutter "is this supposed to be funny?"

I won't say L*S is as good at it as AzuDa ... it is derivative in that respect. But it updates characters so that they're doing the kinds of things girls in 2007 would be doing. (AzuDa was set pretty much early Internet, pre-cell, pre-gaming culture). I'll wait til the anime series is over before I'll take a stab at whether they created the same level of personality that AzuDa was able to create for those girls.

I am familiar with cigar chomping George Burns skits and yes you are right, I end up scratching my head wondering what is so funny about this old geezer. And you are right too, Monty Python left me speechless as to what the heck they laughing all about.

Perhaps they can use a better vehicle other than chocolate pastry dry monologue to reveal the girl's personality.

To me, cyclic nature of discussion equals to lack of material to laugh about which also revealed lack of creativity of story. Man, the author must be assuming people will keep laughing at the same thing over and over again? He/she is expecting too much.

Azumanga Daioh maybe dated to current flow of culture but as character vehicle, it is brilliantly done. Lucky Star maybe to try imitate, in some spots they did succeed but in overall picture is pretty dismal in retrospect.

[Panzer Bandit]

Originally Posted by bayoab

I found the whole concert whole thing very amusing. From the AX panels and from the handful of times I've looked at her blog, Aya Hirano comes off very Konata like. So therefore we have....
Someone just like aya hirano, who is voiced by aya hirano, who is too short to see over a guy wearing a red sos jacket (note: that jacket is famous, i'm not sure if they purposely did something or not here, but this might be something which could be again tied to hirano), trying to watch aya hirano on stage sing.

It's this really kinda amusing effect of having a character watching their VA.

Haha, that part got me laughing because the EXACT same thing happened to me at the AX SOS concert. The moment Aya came on stage, a REALLY big fellow stood up in front of me and gave me a nice view of his back for the entire concert...Come to think of it, I think he might have been wearing an SOS T-shirt too.

Unfortunately, there was no Kagami next to me, so I suffered through the whole concert craning my neck to the left and right.

Getting back to the episode, though, I was touched by interaction between Konata and Kagami during the concert. Definitely one of those "Awwwwww!" moments.

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Perhaps they can use a better vehicle other than chocolate pastry dry monologue to reveal the girl's personality.

What I love about using the choco pastry is that it's so down-to-earth and simple. Had the opening episode instead featured a roller coaster with the girls reactions to riding it, it wouldn't have made the same impact and I really don't think we would've learned quite so much about the girls' personalities.

I also found it humorous that Kona couldn't just drop the discussion - she *had* to get to the bottom of it before allowing the discussion to settle. If you pay attention only to what's coming out of the girls' mouths, I don't think it'd be very funny... but if you look at the overall picture - Kona can't let anything drop, Miyuki and Kagami take a logical approach to eating the pastry and anything else in life, Tsukasa.... I can't remember - you get a lot more out of it, IMO.

Wow, does that make sense? I probably shouldn't ramble when it's nearing 0200...

[Panzer Bandit]

Originally Posted by Risaa

What I love about using the choco pastry is that it's so down-to-earth and simple. Had the opening episode instead featured a roller coaster with the girls reactions to riding it, it wouldn't have made the same impact and I really don't think we would've learned quite so much about the girls' personalities.

I also found it humorous that Kona couldn't just drop the discussion - she *had* to get to the bottom of it before allowing the discussion to settle. If you pay attention only to what's coming out of the girls' mouths, I don't think it'd be very funny... but if you look at the overall picture - Kona can't let anything drop, Miyuki and Kagami take a logical approach to eating the pastry and anything else in life, Tsukasa.... I can't remember - you get a lot more out of it, IMO.

Wow, does that make sense? I probably shouldn't ramble when it's nearing 0200...

It makes perfect sense to me. Actually, that's exactly how I feel, except I couldn't describe it nearly as well as you did.

[Skane]

I have not really posted much about Lucky Star because this is not exactly the kind of show that compels me to give it deep thought and attempt to speculate future events because it is simply not structured that way.

I do however, wish to share some thoughts on some of the criticisms and/or complaints about Lucky Star at this point.
~~~~ ~~~~

First of all, I find it bewildering that some people are finding the "KyoAni-made Anime References" excessive when the non-KyoAni-made references are far more numerous. From memory alone, I can easily rattle off Initial D, Cray-shin, Shakugan no Shana, Keroro Gunsou, One Piece, Full Metal Alchemist, Da Capo, MariMite, Rozen Maiden, Kamen Rider, Yugi-Oh, Pokemon, Shuffle!, etc...

Throw in some mainstream references such as Saw III, an old Japanese horror movie, Animate, Gamers, game shows (Who Wants To Be A Millionaire), etc... and there is little credible basis for an argument that states that KyoAni is not being "equal" in the reference distribution.

Note that I have not even touched on the EDs for the first half of this season, which are a whole new section in themselves.

Perhaps they have been heavy-handed in their Haruhi references, but to the point of being excessive? Nay, I say.

But you know what bugs me more? Nobody is complaining of "excessive FMP! references". I kid, I kid.
~~~~ ~~~~

Ever since the change of Directors, I get the feeling that Lucky Star is slowing turning into a 2nd "Fumoffu!" Perhaps it is because it is now the same Director for both shows. One of the points that has always been subtly, but strongly suggested in "Fumoffu!" was that KyoAni was having a ball of a time with the show (watch the previews).

As in... they were high on LSD mixed with Triple-shot espressos and downed with Vodka; or something to that effect.

The point I am trying to get across is that I get the feeling that KyoAni is having a LOT of fun with making Lucky Star, and while only about half the episode is dedicated to the actual manga chapters, they are still very faithful and well-adapted renditions that will only make the most anal-retentive purists red-eyed (in my opinion).

The other half of course, is Lucky Channel and whatever original material they decided to come up with for the original premise.

Now... if anybody has been paying attention, I have been rather silent on what my thoughts are about Lucky Channel in my write-ups. This is because I am rather... ambivalent about it. It is not related to the original source material at all, but it does not affect the actual Lucky Star either, so I do not really see the point in bitching about it. I will only get antsy about it if it INVADES the actual series and start breaking the 4th wall.

JUST. NO. PLEASE NO.

Let Lucky Channel remain in its own world and never shall the twine meet.

About the original material. I have been reading the source material as well, and you know what? I still highly enjoy the add-ons. As a 4-Koma, the format is very restrictive and the punchlines have to be straightforward or risk losing its impact. As an anime, KyoAni now has the creative freedom to exploit every advantage of the medium to enhance the humour and it is in my opinion that they have largely succeeded in doing so.

The BGMs, the ad-libs, the voice-acting, the exaggerated poses/tones/etc... it all adds up to one wacky episode after another.

And as I said, they seem to be having a lot of fun with it. Like the inexplicable rise and fall of animation quality. Maybe they have a dartboard to decide when to animate something in "full quality".

The latest EDs which scream, "Screw the rules! I want to party!" while the EDs in the first half are almost like some sort of bizzare subversion of the tradition of anime companies trying to sell "awesome" songs using their OP and ED.

I could be wrong of course, and there really is an insidious reason or reasons for why they making Lucky Star the way it is now, but the way I currently see it, Lucky Star is the "vacation-mode" series for KyoAni at this point, and while its production values are not on the scale of Air(TV) or other "high-powered" series, there is still a lot of love being invested into it; and that is why I am still finding this show so enjoyable, because I am having fun in watching KyoAni having fun.

Cheers.

[kenjiharima]

Whao! Aya Hirano ANIMATED!!! God I love it! Makes me wanna give it a 10 already.

Oh Konata even without vector traces your parodies are so great!!! Konata I love you even more now!!!


Wait a minute isn't this...

Spoiler:

Izumi-jiji? Nahh I don't so since Konata is cosplaying ALL the Characters in De Capo
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/imag...Large%2024.jpg

LOL!!! BEST AKIRA pose Pyscho-MOENESS!!!
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/imag...Large%2032.jpg

downloading raws...

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by archanfels

Spoiler:

LS's real ace Kagamin should have no problem dominate her group 15, and Miyuki, just for being a meganeko, should come out alright in her group 18.

Spoiler for Saimoe:

Definitely agree with Kagami, as the only two characters that I see to be threats to her (although she will most likely finish on top) are Vita from Nanoha StrikerS and Nodoka from Negima (Nodoka-chan kawaii! ).

As for Miyuki, she may have a harder time, as her group includes Shiori from Kanon, Evangeline from Negima, and Yakumo from School Rumble.

[archanfels]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

They ripped my heart out with 20 seconds of Kagami finding out she wasn't in the same class, faking indifference, then realizing she would be with the same losers for another year. (I think that's what was going on.)

Terrific work all round in that sequence: script, storyboard, music, direction, voices. So much emotional effect in so little time.

Nonononono, I beg to differ here.

I agree Kagamin getting leftout again is heartbreaking, however no way those 2 girls (Misao and Ayano from what I found) who appeared afterwards are "losers" or anything like that. I haven't read the manga and even I know that those 2 will be in the main cast in the future and no way are they losers and show up there to make Kagami look more pitiful.

In fact, the reason a Kagamin fanatic like me didn't feel nearly as sad as I did for Kuroi sensei in the X'mas episode is due to those two girls. It shows that even she is not w/ Kona and co., Kagami still have other cheerful friends who care about her. Not like Kuroi sensei who was lonely from beginning to the end in the ep. which was much sadder.

Plus, it's a joke on Kagami's part, I lol'd at Misao's comment "so there are these kinda people who just fix their eyes on their top priorities and forget everyone else huh", makes u feel bad for them instead of Kagami if you ask me lol.

Misao/Ayano's involvement water'd down an otherwise heartbreaking scene, and I like them already. (not to mention Misao's tiny teeth are uber cute >.>)

[Risaa]

Am I being too much of a stickler over something so trivial? I apologize in advance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what Kaoru Chujo meant by the line is that Kagami feels like she's with losers, not that Kaoru or we all feel that they're losers.

[Alesiopdv]

Like the inexplicable rise and fall of animation quality.

I never noticed that. For me the show has always had the same quality of animation since episode 1.

And for me the Haruhi references are in-side jokes about the fact almost the whole same staff work in both series.

They also make fun about the fact the voice cast change complety from the Drama CD to the anime.

http://www.syu-ta.com/luckystar/luckystar.shtml Scroll down under the reference section and you get which ones were used in which ep.

The damn place is in japanes or something and I cant find the references.

[AVPlaya]

Originally Posted by Risaa

What I love about using the choco pastry is that it's so down-to-earth and simple. Had the opening episode instead featured a roller coaster with the girls reactions to riding it, it wouldn't have made the same impact and I really don't think we would've learned quite so much about the girls' personalities.

I also found it humorous that Kona couldn't just drop the discussion - she *had* to get to the bottom of it before allowing the discussion to settle. If you pay attention only to what's coming out of the girls' mouths, I don't think it'd be very funny... but if you look at the overall picture - Kona can't let anything drop, Miyuki and Kagami take a logical approach to eating the pastry and anything else in life, Tsukasa.... I can't remember - you get a lot more out of it, IMO.

Wow, does that make sense? I probably shouldn't ramble when it's nearing 0200...

Yes it makes a lot of sense! Kona can't let anything drop... including the dripping cream of a chocho cronet she kept sqeezing!

People are really overtly critical of the first episode I think... yeah the comedic timing was off, but if you look at the whole thing as a DRAMATIC narrative rather than looking for laughs, it was pretty well done and we get to know the girls without them talking even a bit about themselves. We barely know who they are but we ALL got exactly what kind of character they were by that long discussion about food. It really takes a keen eye and love for L*S to notice something like this. Maybe Yamamoto shouldn't get fired so soon.