2009-09-30, 10:30 | Link #981 | |
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Regarding Bern, I think you can trust her, as long as you don't take what she says at face value - much like with statistics.
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Anyway guys, something has been bothering me for a while. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that, so far, the game - when it comes to refer to the people in Rokkenjima - has only worked with numbers. For example "no more than X people are in this island". Even in EP5, when everyone was gathered in the same room, what we got was "the number of people in this room is the number of people in this island". They could have said something like "other than these people, no one exists in this island." However, R07 has stuck himself to numbers.
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2009-09-30, 10:49 | Link #982 | |
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Episode 5's kakera was setup by Lambda and Bern with no intention of helping Battler learn the truth. However, Battler was able to see the contrast between the games setup by Beato and the one setup by the lesbo witches so he was able to learn the truth.
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2009-09-30, 10:56 | Link #983 | |
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Not to mention that Erika's introduction proved that the mystery can be solved by human means, which Battler had failed to do in the previous 4 games.
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2009-09-30, 12:10 | Link #984 | |
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2009-09-30, 12:25 | Link #986 | |
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And I still think she's disguising as someone. Spoiler for EP4 spoilers:
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2009-09-30, 15:10 | Link #987 |
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She didn't resolve the issue of the bodies going missing. Even if it's impossible to prove Natsuhi didn't commit the murders (which would satisfy "demonstrating it was possible through human means"), where'd they go? With Kinzo dead, there's no one to have moved them (ignoring for a moment the red text toward the end that throws a wrench into even that).
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2009-09-30, 17:19 | Link #988 | ||
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At this point I have a question. If you really think that Beatrice can not only travel through kakera but set them up as she see fit, how exactly is she different from Bernkastel? Why isn't she a voyager witch? What kind of power Bernkastel posses that Beatrice doesn't? According to you, Beatrice is like Bernkastel but with the power endless in addition. She's like a superbernkastel!
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2009-09-30, 17:32 | Link #990 | |
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2009-09-30, 17:34 | Link #991 |
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However Chronotrig theory doesn't explain how is it possible to make pieces act to your own will, the gamemaster isn't simply a narrator, the gamemaster isn't just an observer that tells the story he sees, the gamemaster creates the story.
It also doesn't explain why Ronove Virgilia and Beatrice can be so indifferent to real people's death and suffering, and more than anything, it doesn't explain why Battler suddenly sides with them considering how he dislikes Bernkastel. @workwork Well the difference between Beatrice and Maria is that Beatrice can only use existing stuff to create her stories. Just take as example RPG maker. In the case of Beatrice she uses the existing graphics to create her own story. Maria instead can create new graphics and elements for the game, however she's unable to create a story. Now that you make me think about that, the siestas are in fact Maria's creation, however it's Beatrice that put them in the story.
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2009-09-30, 17:45 | Link #993 |
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You seem to be assuming the pieces actually behave according to Beatrice's will, and that she's not just selectively displaying things in certain ways and making up others. The idea of mind control was brought up in ep3 and Battler's discovery more or less suggested that the witch side can't actually change people's motives, only interpret them and try to present them as something they may or may not be.
Not unlike what Erika does with Natsuhi's diary. |
2009-09-30, 18:39 | Link #994 |
* ahaha.wav *
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i think it's either stated or strongly hited that Beatrice can't travel between kakera, i think you could interpret things Lambda sais in EP2-3 as her borrowing her power for the sake of the game.
and one thing that bugs me about the teaparty: did Battler just slipped into the sea of kakera on his own? (just before the yakusou scene when dir plays) it kinda makes him a voyager witch too. |
2009-09-30, 18:40 | Link #995 |
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Voyagers can travel to different universes (If you believe that Bern and 34 are from higurashi) and while normal witches with a certain amount of power can travel, they lose their power in the new world (I think...) Voyagers don't, but they are restricted by the rules of the world they go to, which is why 34 has to follow the red text rule.
Kakera controlling seem to be a witch ability. And the witches can "bookmark" kakera in order to find them later, such as when EVA's answer is shown and the kakera with the truth. Kakera are different worlds but not different universes. (34 would never let Beato get a kakera that showed the truth or let her sneak it out or bookmark it) Rika was a normal human, so she just randomly went to another kakera. And she did have a bit of a meta world with Bern when the 3 rules were introduced. I agree with the theory Beato can only use kakera available, and change them a little, possibly using Maria's power. It would also explain because a third party (MARIA) created the siestas, why Bern took them over as her pieces. What happened to MARIA anyways? And the idea of Beato, Ronove, and Virgilia not caring about the deaths of the game pieces fits the "you don't cry when you lose a piece in chess" mind set. There have been a few instances where some kindness has been shown such as the 1st twilight of game 3 and with Gaap giving the dead their dignity in game 5. Beato... the "she's only acting" works here... And she does tone down a little... |
2009-09-30, 19:24 | Link #996 | ||
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2009-09-30, 20:18 | Link #999 |
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I think there is a huge difference in the power level... (Insert 9000 joke here) Seriously, If he was a voyager, he could go to other universes, but what interest does other universes have for Battler?
It's the same reasoning that Voyagers do not want to become creators... kinda... |
2009-09-30, 20:30 | Link #1000 | |
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There are 2 ways to explain the characters' indifference. One is that they are falsehoods themselves. It's never been stated in red that they exist in the meta world. The other is that, assuming a "final world" will be chosen in the end, the result of each game leading up to that doesn't matter (possibly). If you kill someone and then go back in time and stop yourself killing them, is there a crime committed in the final timeline? It seems as though this world has been repeating dozens if not hundreds of times. If so, their actions are perfectly reasonable.
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