Campione!(カンピオーネ!) [Light Novel]

[GodSoul]

Originally Posted by DarkSilverSky

I disagree, doni behaves like a god/godess. He doesn't care about people and he just does what he wants. If godou asked him to move to a mountain, doni would just say why bother or talk about sacrifices need to be made so godou can grow as warrior, blabla.

When figthing against godess and campiones, common sense doesn't work and human rigths are ignored. Against athena, godou asked to change the battlegrounds and it just ended up making things worse.

Note: I am not defending his actions. On a sidenote, i think he no longer cares that much if destroys something or complains when he needs to do the ritual. I guess he got used.

doni conquered the fortress in Colonia Agrippina in order to protect the Franks.

it will actually act like god more he can still worry about people(and course it may have helped the Franks to fight artos goddess).

in many ways,Doni and perfect as campione, and a total failure as a human being.

[Ravagerblade]

I'm actually surprised not many of the *magi* realm seek 'King who manifests at the End' or 'King of the End' to destroy the Campione's, you'd think some would want to get rid of them (not all mind you, Campione do help the world in the way of getting rid of Heretic Gods). At least some faction would think to do so no?

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

I'm actually surprised not many of the *magi* realm seek 'King who manifests at the End' or 'King of the End' to destroy the Campione's, you'd think some would want to get rid of them (not all mind you, Campione do help the world in the way of getting rid of Heretic Gods). At least some faction would think to do so no?

He's a god who's name, myth or any connection to them has changed drastically over the millennia, I wouldn't be surprised if only an extreme minority of magicians know about him.

Besides, even if campioni cause destruction around the world, once he is summoned and has slain all existing campioni, what will he do with no more enemies to kill? If he goes to sleep again, the steel gods who followed him on his crusade will be free to roam, causing havoc as they please and there is no guarantee that if he wanders the earth, he won't cause any destruction, intentionally or not.

Instead of free-roaming gods, who would easily ignore human pleas, magicians can at least negotiate with campioni with political influence, like how Witenagemot can somewhat deal against Alec's Royal Arsenal.

Basically it is the lesser of two evils.

[Log]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Yes, but he didn't have to run right in and start a frontal assualt. There were other ways of dealing with the situation.

IIRC Doni wasn't letting Godou see Erica without a fight (or something to that extent) and Godou aggressive like that so...

Besides I don't think Godou had a better option at the time.

He would have done that long ago if he wanted to.

He knows Godou won't fight if he doesn't have a reason to, which is why he didn't do that. He said that himself more than once.

True.

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

I'm actually surprised not many of the *magi* realm seek 'King who manifests at the End' or 'King of the End' to destroy the Campione's, you'd think some would want to get rid of them (not all mind you, Campione do help the world in the way of getting rid of Heretic Gods). At least some faction would think to do so no?

Originally Posted by Awrya

He's a god who's name, myth or any connection to them has changed drastically over the millennia, I wouldn't be surprised if only an extreme minority of magicians know about him.

Besides, even if campioni cause destruction around the world, once he is summoned and has slain all existing campioni, what will he do with no more enemies to kill? If he goes to sleep again, the steel gods who followed him on his crusade will be free to roam, causing havoc as they please and there is no guarantee that if he wanders the earth, he won't cause any destruction, intentionally or not.

Instead of free-roaming gods, who would easily ignore human pleas, magicians can at least negotiate with campioni with political influence, like how Witenagemot can somewhat deal against Alec's Royal Arsenal.

Basically it is the lesser of two evils.

Basically this.

And let's be honest other Campione's besides maybe Voban are not that bad. Aisha doesn't really do much besides get into her clumsy antics. The only thing people have to worry about for Godou is their women and their property. Salvatore's a idiot but he's a harmless idiot most of the time and is only a threat to you if you're strong (which basically means he's only a threat to other Campione/gods). Alec is a petty schemer that isn't evil enough to do any serious harm. Luo Huo has a whale sized ego but she also is someone that lacks in evil intent and her ego makes her easy to control. JPS actually doesn't have any notable negative qualities besides suffering from middle school syndrome.

You can argue for Voban being a evil old coot but even Voban probably has done something good in the past via killing gods and he a least has his principles.

So yeah I'd rather deal with the eccentric campiones rather then the plain malicious gods.

[teejmo]

Originally Posted by Log

And let's be honest other Campione's besides maybe Voban are not that bad. Aisha doesn't really do much besides get into her clumsy antics. The only thing people have to worry about for Godou is their women and their property. Salvatore's a idiot but he's a harmless idiot most of the time and is only a threat to you if you're strong (which basically means he's only a threat to other Campione/gods). Alec is a petty schemer that isn't evil enough to do any serious harm. Luo Huo has a whale sized ego but she also is someone that lacks in evil intent and her ego makes her easy to control. JPS actually doesn't have any notable negative qualities besides suffering from middle school syndrome.

You can argue for Voban being a evil old coot but even Voban probably has done something good in the past via killing gods and he a least has his principles.

So yeah I'd rather deal with the eccentric campiones rather then the plain malicious gods.

I basically agree, though I would like to point out that JPS has to do various "sacrifices" to use his/her powers, and there are some citizens of Los Angeles that really don't like that. Granted, if I had to suffer through repeated black-outs and earthquakes, I might start to grumble too.

[lived_1714]

Originally Posted by teejmo

I basically agree, though I would like to point out that JPS has to do various "sacrifices" to use his/her powers, and there are some citizens of Los Angeles that really don't like that. Granted, if I had to suffer through repeated black-outs and earthquakes, I might start to grumble too.

Would be better than turned into an animal for the rest of your life.

[Ickarium]

Funny thing is JPS may actually do -more- damage than Godou, outside blowing up an island or such. The earthquakes he does, while not life-threatening, would cause a -lot- of property damage in some areas, depending on how the buildings are actually built. We're talking millions or even in big cities, billions of dollars. Even a small earthquake can do damage if the infrastructure isn't designed to accomodate it. Only thing is the author likes to be funny and have the targets near Godou all be historical landmarks.

As for women, it's not like Godou goes after them. He attracts women, but come on.

[bakapervert]

I don't really see why Godou destroying buildings (even though its famous) become such big matter. I remember watching the latest superman movie, in there superman use vehicles as projectile, punch the enemy into building, fly through building, I don't remember hat else he done, but I remember that he destroy a whole lot more compared to Godou. Yet nobody call that on him in the aftermath. He is lauded as hero. I think there are a lot more show where the protagonist destroy the building around him in his fight. Yet this is the first time I seen its debated so much. Well, maybe aside from Touta in UQ Holder where he got into 18 million debt because he destroy building and road in his fight.

[lived_1714]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

I don't really see why Godou destroying buildings (even though its famous) become such big matter. I remember watching the latest superman movie, in there superman use vehicles as projectile, punch the enemy into building, fly through building, I don't remember hat else he done, but I remember that he destroy a whole lot more compared to Godou. Yet nobody call that on him in the aftermath. He is lauded as hero. I think there are a lot more show where the protagonist destroy the building around him in his fight. Yet this is the first time I seen its debated so much. Well, maybe aside from Touta in UQ Holder where he got into 18 million debt because he destroy building and road in his fight.

Well because in Marvel or DC they have high-tech engineer as common thing.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

I don't really see why Godou destroying buildings (even though its famous) become such big matter. I remember watching the latest superman movie, in there superman use vehicles as projectile, punch the enemy into building, fly through building, I don't remember hat else he done, but I remember that he destroy a whole lot more compared to Godou. Yet nobody call that on him in the aftermath. He is lauded as hero. I think there are a lot more show where the protagonist destroy the building around him in his fight. Yet this is the first time I seen its debated so much. Well, maybe aside from Touta in UQ Holder where he got into 18 million debt because he destroy building and road in his fight.

I think its not so much the cost of his property destruction, but the fact that what he destroys tend to be irreplaceable historic landmarks. It wasn't once or twice either. It's only through sheer luck and plot armor that he hasn't accidentally killed any bystanders.

[bakapervert]

Originally Posted by bludvein

I think its not so much the cost of his property destruction, but the fact that what he destroys tend to be irreplaceable historic landmarks. It wasn't once or twice either. It's only through sheer luck and plot armor that he hasn't accidentally killed any bystanders.

That's kinda, feel wrong. So its okay if what you destroy is just another people's house or their business, but if its an historical building they will give you a lot of shit over it? And as for luck and plot armor, doesn't Godou already calculate that the building he target should be already empty before he launch his attack? Because usually HCC already evacuate the immediate area or its night anyway so there shouldn't be any people?

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

That's kinda, feel wrong. So its okay if what you destroy is just another people's house or their business, but if its an historical building they will give you a lot of shit over it? And as for luck and plot armor, doesn't Godou already calculate that the building he target should be already empty before he launch his attack? Because usually HCC already evacuate the immediate area or its night anyway so there shouldn't be any people?

His calculations can go wrong anytime and there can always be some civilians get left behind accidentally. You can't fight large scale supernatural battles right in the middle of cities every weeks without killing a single person. No matter how professional those HCC guys are, there tend to be some unlucky victims.

[Ickarium]

And yet it happens. I'd just handwave it to the genre and setting rather than trying to deconstruct it. Down that route lies the Endor Holocaust, and we don't want that.

[Superbia]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

Funny thing is JPS may actually do -more- damage than Godou, outside blowing up an island or such. The earthquakes he does, while not life-threatening, would cause a -lot- of property damage in some areas, depending on how the buildings are actually built. We're talking millions or even in big cities, billions of dollars. Even a small earthquake can do damage if the infrastructure isn't designed to accomodate it. Only thing is the author likes to be funny and have the targets near Godou all be historical landmarks.

As for women, it's not like Godou goes after them. He attracts women, but come on.

John Pluto Smith's earthquakes are supposed to be about a 3 or 4 on the Richter Scale which for California, where she's based, is probably not an uncommon occurence. Any building that couldn't endure that wouldn't last long there in the first place.

[Ickarium]

Yeah, thus 'depending on how buildings are built'. In California, a 3-4 isn't too bad. In other places it is. Like the one in Yunaan Province in China in 2011, it was a 4. Did /tons/ of damage. I don't know whether Japan is built to be earthquake-resistant, it depends on whether they have a history, but nevertheless. Those 'small' earthquakes of his can do a great deal of damage.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

And yet it happens. I'd just handwave it to the genre and setting rather than trying to deconstruct it. Down that route lies the Endor Holocaust, and we don't want that.

IT ALL BURNED UP IN THE ATMOSPERE!!!!

Or, you know, they decided to just not tell him about all the people that might have died.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

That's kinda, feel wrong. So its okay if what you destroy is just another people's house or their business, but if its an historical building they will give you a lot of shit over it? And as for luck and plot armor, doesn't Godou already calculate that the building he target should be already empty before he launch his attack? Because usually HCC already evacuate the immediate area or its night anyway so there shouldn't be any people?

Well I'm not saying JPS's antics are much better, but at least the property he destroys would be insured and replaceable. His earthquakes are unlikely to cause any deaths, especially in an area like California.

....and Godou will consider whether a building is occupied if he has time to plan, but when he is in fight mode those kinds of things rarely enter his thoughts. Like the time he aimed the boar at the yokohoma bay bridge just because it was in his field of view and he needed a target.

[Valky]

I guess the LN is going to end, huh? Godou is already meek & accepting his (harem) fate, and the plot is getting deeper into the King of The End's arc.

Btw, I doubt the Campiones will get any authorities even if they defeat the gods & goddesses. Since they got summoned with The King of the End's authority, just like when the Sun Wukong summoned his brothers, JPS, Godou & Luo Hao didn't get any after they defeated them.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Valky

I guess the LN is going to end, huh? Godou is already meek & accepting his (harem) fate, and the plot is getting deeper into the King of The End's arc.

Btw, I doubt the Campiones will get any authorities even if they defeat the gods & goddesses. Since they got summoned with The King of the End's authority, just like when the Sun Wukong summoned his brothers, JPS, Godou & Luo Hao didn't get any after they defeated them.

Sun Wukong's subordinates weren't killed by Luo Hao and JPS alone though. Sun Wukong called them and they fused into 1. Then it was 3v1, with Guinevere absorbing the leftovers with the amulet after Sun Wukong's "death." So that isn't a very good example. Subordinate gods may very well give authorities if they are defeated in a fitting manner.

Plus, we aren't even sure they are technically subordinate gods. It depends on how much autonomy they have.

[teejmo]

Originally Posted by bludvein

Sun Wukong's subordinates weren't killed by Luo Hao and JPS alone though. Sun Wukong called them and they fused into 1. Then it was 3v1, with Guinevere absorbing the leftovers with the amulet after Sun Wukong's "death." So that isn't a very good example. Subordinate gods may very well give authorities if they are defeated in a fitting manner.

Plus, we aren't even sure they are technically subordinate gods. It depends on how much autonomy they have.

The closest thing we have to a subordinate god that was actually defeated is Ame no Murakumo no Tsuragi, though that is suggested. However, considering it was considered a God of Steel, and Susanoo seemed impressed that Godou "stole" it from him, it seems pretty likely that the sword was a subordinate god. Now, Godou's use of the sword is what needs to be defined. I consider it an authority, and if that is true, then yes, subordinate gods are forced to give authorities upon their defeat.