GATE - General/Legacy Anime Discussion

[Sheba]

British tried to control one population's growth and expansion in a colony because managing the natives, etc... It just didn't well and we got the United States of America. From the settlers' pov, there is one entire continent all for the taking, be it land or resources, and this is one opportunity that you may never have again in the history of humankind, unless we manage to make it to another earth-like exoplanet.

Long story short, you cannot underestimate the humans' desire for land, resource and opportunities when you ship them to an unknown land.

[Benigmatica]

Episode 4:
Hearing Yanagida's remarks regarding the use of resources of the Special Region might get Japan into more trouble. Heck, even China is interested on claiming the Special Region on their own, something that the country is getting scrutinized lately for their lebensraum-like actions.

Meanwhile, it's interesting to see Lelei getting the hang of the modern conveniences easily. Heck, she even learned Japanese little by little so I have a feeling that she might become an asset later! As for Tuka however, she didn't show something that's significant nor interesting on this episode, apart from seeing her father being eaten by a fire dragon.

Anyways, I can't wait for next week where the JSDF meet Piña's squad in Italica.

[Heir of the Void]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I dont think the natives would welcome 800M coming through the Gate for their land and recources with open arms. They may find soon enough that being under the boot of the People's Party is much worse than the Empire.

Edit: joint effort with USA is the best option for Japan imo.

Exactly what I was thinking on both counts. It is an interesting and pretty much undeniable fact that almost all of the serious Communist nations were insanely more awful than anything that proceeded them, with the possible exception the the Mongols. Fun Fact: the population of Persia went from about 2,500,000 before the mongol conquest to 250,000 immediately after. China went from about 120 million to around 60 million.

Life in the Empire doesn't seem all that bad by preindustrial standards, all things considered.

Compare to something like this.

Originally Posted by Takeshi senpai

I thought they said half of the world, since the USA would most likely try to have friendly relations with Japan, and the author should know that the japanese government is not stupid enough to go against them. With the mutual defense treaty, not many countries would try to attack Japan, right?

See, you're working on the fundamental assumption that the author knows things, which I'm increasingly sure is incorrect. With the U.S. Navy supporting the JMSDF and a week or two to deploy two or three additional carrier groups, there really isn't any nation on Earth that could successfully launch an invasion of Japan.

Originally Posted by VDZ

There's no need to close the gate. If Japan (the nation) is willing to entirely give up Japan (the territory) in favor of the Special Region, the gate makes an unparallelled choke point that no army can pass without vast improvements in technology. The gate itself is so easy to defend from the Special Region side that numbers become entirely irrelevant. There is no way to invade it with an army waiting on the other side and no way whatsoever to go around them.

In practice though, there's no way the Japanese government could just abandon Japan (the territory).

While that is theoretically correct, this sort of strategy is the sort of thing that only works in a civ game. Not only would moving an entire nation's worth of infrastructure be... a challenge... it would be hard to get the people to go along with it.

Originally Posted by Asuras

Relations aside, the mere logistical nightmare of moving 800 million people first through a foreign country and then into an unexplored land devoid of industry and development is so laughably idiotic I couldn't help but feel the president was given that line just to purposefully make him seem stupid and raise the Japanese image.

The PRC (People's Republic of China, for those who may not know) is the heir to the Soviet Union, and it is important to remember the first rule of Soviet Engineering:

If you can't build it right, build it BIGGER!

But in all seriousness, I have no doubt the Chinese would try something like that if they had the opportunity, and that they might actually pull it off.

They have a government with complete control over the population, and a population sufficiently used to poverty that the lack of infrastructure and inevitable massive supply shortfalls wouldn't derail the whole plan.

Sure, I'd guess that at an absolute minimum, 10% of the settlers would die, but the GLORIOUS DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF THE ETERNAL AND GLORIOUS SOCIALIST MIDDLE KINGDOM isn't really the type to care about that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by jcdietz03

In general, nations do not have the right to exploit the resources of other nations.

That's a novel hypothesis, and a very recent one. Throughout most of history, that was entirely the norm, I would conjecture that it only changed because industrial and atomic technology made war too expensive to be universally profitable.

Originally Posted by Sheba

British tried to control one population's growth and expansion in a colony because managing the natives, etc... It just didn't well and we got the United States of America. From the settlers' pov, there is one entire continent all for the taking, be it land or resources, and this is one opportunity that you may never have again in the history of humankind, unless we manage to make it to another earth-like exoplanet.

Long story short, you cannot underestimate the humans' desire for land, resource and opportunities when you ship them to an unknown land.

That is true, but there is a pretty huge difference between the British settlers int the 16 and 1700s and the Chinese, particularly post-Mao. The British colonists had a tradition of autonomy and self-governance (see the Magna Carta) that simply has never existed in China. I read an interesting article that compares the Chinese people over the past five millennia to a sad puppy that only want you to love it, and thus comes back no matter how many times you brutally beat it. I won't say that, though, because that would be racist or something.

[Tranhieu]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Actually the gate would be rather hard to hold against a modern force who was willing to take chances on destroying it. Gas attacks , tactical nukes , or some other chemical attacks could clear the area around the gate and after that Japan loses. Really Japan loses pretty much any way they do this without US support.

The best thing Japan could do in this situation is to go joint with US to exploit the gate and put a transport tax on anything coming through the gate. They would be rolling in money at no risk to themselves.

And what if the Gate is also destroyed by the nuke's blast?

Gas attacking a wide open area is also impractical, unless you want to intoxicate the whole Tokyo.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by VDZ

There's no need to close the gate. If Japan (the nation) is willing to entirely give up Japan (the territory) in favor of the Special Region, the gate makes an unparallelled choke point that no army can pass without vast improvements in technology. The gate itself is so easy to defend from the Special Region side that numbers become entirely irrelevant. There is no way to invade it with an army waiting on the other side and no way whatsoever to go around them.

In practice though, there's no way the Japanese government could just abandon Japan (the territory).

Number still matter. May be less about number of men but more about number of supply. Those guns will run out of ammo sooner or later. Unless they have resource and industry capacity to produce them on other side of the gate........to match the rest of the world.

That was how Japan lost World War 2 as well.

Originally Posted by Sheba

I dont think the natives would welcome 800M coming through the Gate for their land and recources with open arms. They may find soon enough that being under the boot of the People's Party is much worse than the Empire.

Edit: joint effort with USA is the best option for Japan imo.

Who would want Murican capitalist to come and exploit virgin land of gate. You know what is better option for Japan ? Have Japanese capitalist exploit it instead

btw I think living in modern communist society would still be better than living in medieval feudal society though.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Tranhieu

And what if the Gate is also destroyed by the nuke's blast?

Gas attacking a wide open area is also impractical, unless you want to intoxicate the whole Tokyo.

That is why I said willing to take chances with destroying it. And we are talking about a war here, the area on this side of the gate would already be evacuated so blow back would not be that much of a problem. The Japanese forces have to control the other side of the gate because if they let the US, NATO, or whoever is attacking from this side get a foothold over there they lose. We can sit far back on this side

[Takeshi senpai]

Why would they take risk with destroying the one thing they are fighting for, which is the ability to access rich, untapped resources and land? The gate is the only way through, so they can't risk destroying it.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Takeshi senpai

Why would they take risk with destroying the one thing they are fighting for, which is the ability to access rich, untapped resources and land? The gate is the only way through, so they can't risk destroying it.

so no one else can have it.

Anyway we've already discussed this I believe...The anther is taking huge liberties in order to make this story work.

[germanturkey]

what an enjoyable show. it reminds me a lot of valkyria chronicles. the slice of life-ness. but it also has tinges of being really dark, particularly when showing how brutal the world can be. the dragon straight up killing people and how they were talking about selling themselves to make a living. not elements you'd normally find in show as light as this on the surface.

[Ushio the Omega]

Did episode 4 condense 14 pages down to 60 seconds? really? I think Gate now wins the award for worst LN adaption I've ever seen.


Edit.
So why does all the violence get cut from this while in Overlord for example you get decapitation and mutilation?

[Tranhieu]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

That is why I said willing to take chances with destroying it. And we are talking about a war here, the area on this side of the gate would already be evacuated so blow back would not be that much of a problem. The Japanese forces have to control the other side of the gate because if they let the US, NATO, or whoever is attacking from this side get a foothold over there they lose. We can sit far back on this side

We're not talking about chances here if the other nations have to go such lengths. It has to be 100% sure the gate will remain intact should mass destruction weapon be used, otherwise you can't just say 'sorry I just leveled your whole capital city by mistake'.

That aside, I'm I the only one here wondering why Lelei and her master are allowed to to go near those excavators without protection gears?

[Myssa Rei]

Actually, the Chinese premiere was musing about a "what if" situation clearly -- notes him wishing the Gate had opened in China instead.

That said, yeah, what he said was quite laughable. Transport 800 million people, just like that?

[Starway]

Originally Posted by Ushio the Omega

Did episode 4 condense 14 pages down to 60 seconds? really? I think Gate now wins the award for worst LN adaption I've ever seen.


Edit.
So why does all the violence get cut from this while in Overlord for example you get decapitation and mutilation?

Oh finally someone mention that I was beginning to wonder if I Was the only one annoyed that they rush half a chapter into 60 seconds and remove several good scenes and lines just so we could get a bath scene.

[RDNexus]

What part are you saying was rushed?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Ushio the Omega

So why does all the violence get cut from this while in Overlord for example you get decapitation and mutilation?

Gate has a much broader target audience. They need a lower age rating than Overlord.




And here goes the "it's shit just because it's not a 1:1 transcription of the source" train again... Seems "looking at the anime on it's own" is a completely foreign concept these days...

[Jaden]

The Americans would be the most salty about all this...if only they kept Japan as their protectorate, they could be all over that shit.

I like the show though. It has some reality to it, in the sense that if a gate to a fantasy world appeared in real life, this is probably how things would go down.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by Ushio the Omega

So why does all the violence get cut from this while in Overlord for example you get decapitation and mutilation?

Because one is adapted by studio A1 as oppose to Madhouse

Originally Posted by xrick

What part are you saying was rushed?

He was talking about Tuka's flashback of dragon attack.



I forgot to mention that it seem we have our first case of personality change. Tuka/Chuka the elven girl. In manga, She was way more easy going and daring. It seem like she was having fun learning new stuffs, trying new cloth, going to new place. In anime, She is portrayed as a shy and timid girl, afraid to even set foot outside her forest. I don't know which one is more resemble the novel version though. aohige might be able to clarify this.

[RDNexus]

The flashback had a decent amount of gore which, once again, was glossed over... Not surprised.

[Tenzen12]

Honestly, this time they got gore reduction right, you should admit that much at least.

[Starway]

Originally Posted by xrick

What part are you saying was rushed?

Dragon attack on the elf village was about 14 pages in the manga and several scene have a page or two missing so like the bar scene witch skips 3 pages if they were skipping cuz they needed time that be fine but the slow pacing for episode 1 which only did like 30 pages I think and the filler bath scene this episode make it pretty obvious that they aren't worried about that at all filler should only be done when theirs something that needs filled not when theirs stuff being skip and even then if it's going to be like that moronic vision in episode one just give me 60 seconds of looking at a wall or something it's less of a waste of my time

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Gate has a much broader target audience. They need a lower age rating than Overlord.




And here goes the "it's shit just because it's not a 1:1 transcription of the source" train again... Seems "looking at the anime on it's own" is a completely foreign concept these days...

and here goes the people are saying their opinion and criticism on a show I like better start insulting them and grouping them together and putting words in their mouth how dare they have a option that's not mine train again. no once expects a 1:1 transcription but people do expect a anime to stay true to the source which is hard to do when you have to rush 14 pages in 60 seconds and remove 3 pages just to censor the gore and remove a dirty joke adding filler is fine changing scenes is fine censoring a third of what make the show the show and adding horrible filler(not talking about this show) is definitely not fine not to mention that some characters a starting to fell like they've had a personality change.