Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

What? But they're so full of love!!

See? See? Look! <3

Spoiler:

But anyways, I was not all that comfortable watching things like Kodomo no Jikan. There's always that stigma of -- preferring to not view children in a sexual way. It's just plain not cool.

Kojika showed more than kids being sexually active, it also showed why they do that and if you look past the suggestive stuff, there's a very deep story underneath. Besides, no one forced you to watch it, just like no one forces you to watch loli material.

Yea. Sure. Lolicon and stuff are in anime/manga. They're drawings. They're animated. Blah blah blah. The point is: the message. To depict children in any shape or from in a sexual manner -- just think of the message implied by that.

So, do violent anime or images depicting a bloody scene send out a message that it's okay to beat someone to a bloody pulp, then? That if I were to look at a picture of someone being brutally murdered, I would have or get a tendency to murder people as well? Do all lovers of guro pictures like disemboweling real people? I'm quite sure the answer is no. So what makes lolicon the exception?

The whole reason why child porn is such an issue is because children are abused when making it. With lolicon, you're dealing with fictional characters, so no real children were abused into making it. So why make laws that bans something that is completely (or at the very least, mostly) harmless?

Plus, the whole definition of what is a 'loli' varies, depending on who you ask. Some think it's limited to characters who are under 12 years old (in-universe), others apply the definition to any girl with a child-like appearance (usually with little to no breast development), even if that girl is above the age of consent. Heck, there are fictional characters who are several centuries old and still look not a day older than 10.

So, if they ban lolicon, that won't affect me one bit.

To quote Martin Niemöller:

First they went after the terrorists
and I did not stand up, because I was not a terrorist
Then they went after the pedophiles
and I did not stand up, because I was not a pedophile
Then they went after the lolicons
and I did not stand up, because I was not a lolicon
Then they went after people who like fictional violence.
and I did not stand up, because I didn't like fictional violence
Then they went after me,
and there was no one left to stand up for me.

I could probably add more to this rather famous quote, but I assume you get the message.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

Plus, the whole definition of what is a 'loli' varies, depending on who you ask. Some think it's limited to characters who are under 12 years old (in-universe), others apply the definition to any girl with a child-like appearance (usually with little to no breast development), even if that girl is above the age of consent. Heck, there are fictional characters who are several centuries old and still look not a day older than 10.

And here's the real life example:
http://www.somebodythinkofthechildre...small-breasts/
http://www.geekologie.com/2010/01/di...ralia_bans.php
Yes, Kierra Knightley is "child porn" material to idiots on their illogical rampage.

[DonQuigleone]

To be honest, a lot of women could be described (in terms of appearance) as "Children with Boobs". I've seen some women who look 14 (even though there 30), and if a young girl (10-14ish) dresses like an adult, she can easily pass for a petite woman. Some women could look even younger if they strapped down their chests and dressed childishly(and somehow found a way to look a bit smaller...).

So I'd be wary of being to restrictive on what is and isn't an appropriate thing to animate. If I was going to draw a line I'd draw it at obscene material(IE Porn) involving characters that are clearly meant to be kids (IE 0-10).

I'd certainly wouldn't ban depictions of people who are in the 12-18 range, most people in that age range already have developed physically...

Also, if anime characters look like Children, then Betty Boop looks like a frickin baby. How's that for messed up?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

To be honest, a lot of women could be described (in terms of appearance) as "Children with Boobs". I've seen some women who look 14 (even though there 30), and if a young girl (10-14ish) dresses like an adult, she can easily pass for a petite woman. Some women could look even younger if they strapped down their chests and dressed childishly(and somehow found a way to look a bit smaller...).

So I'd be wary of being to restrictive on what is and isn't an appropriate thing to animate. If I was going to draw a line I'd draw it at obscene material(IE Porn) involving characters that are clearly meant to be kids (IE 0-10).

I'd certainly wouldn't ban depictions of people who are in the 12-18 range, most people in that age range already have developed physically...

Also, if anime characters look like Children, then Betty Boop looks like a frickin baby. How's that for messed up?

I do believe these wingnuts *would* classify Betty Boop as dangerous material And yes, my wife (who definitely *has* assets) was still carded in bars til she was in her 40s because she's small (4'10" 95lbs).

Apparently the only "kind of woman" these babbling idiots think you're supposed to be attracted to are large, meaty women with age lines ?? But back to manga.... for that matter I can pull American comic images up and the victim would have no idea what their age was out of context. The japanese 4-koma Lucky*Star is an interesting example because the author draws them like little bugs - almost like Peanuts.

[Kameruka]

Curse: We won't see anything like Yosuga no Sora again...
Blessing: We won't see anything like School Days again...

[blitz1/2]

I am not in favour of any ban, as it would give leeways for more bans. Sadly, Japan lacks the guts to stand up for themselves.

[asaqe]

And that is why the industry is going to go stale even faster. And hopefully this sets up a message to VN adaptations that the safer discretion is just to make a 3 episode OVA.

[mechdra]

Originally Posted by asaqe

And that is why the industry is going to go stale even faster. And hopefully this sets up a message to VN adaptations that the safer discretion is just to make a 3 episode OVA.

Wouldn't that be better? We might get something like Princess Lover, the series will be softcore and the ova will be hardcore. That way, we would enjoy the show with more flavour.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Hmph, that rape-novellist Ishihara is probably pissed that he couldn't find Spongebob Squarepants Hentai Doujinshis in Akihabara, and is Hell-Bent to westernized the whole industry so he can masturbate to fantasies of Bart Simpson sucking off and Spongebob wrapped around his in geriatrically incompetent manhood.

[asaqe]

Well, I am just more concerned about how it will much more difficult to tackle certain subjects that even american comics and manhua/manwha can handle without difficulty.

[Kameruka]

Blood-C is one of the biggest evidence that so-called "bill" is largely ignored. What it is? A gore and vore fest show and more importanly, it was released AFTER the "bill" takes full effect, July 2011.

However it makes me worry that someday another studio decided to remake School Days in HD or some sort. There is a rumor for a canonical spin-off for it.

[bhl88]

It seems that the publishers behind ACE surrendered and gave in to Ishihara.

TAF 2012 showed them all there again.

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by bhl88

It seems that the publishers behind ACE surrendered and gave in to Ishihara.

TAF 2012 showed them all there again.

What can you do? Powers that be crush everyone.

[Guardian Enzo]

Optimistically, one could argue that they realized the law was strictly political masturbation and was having no practical impact on the industry whatsoever as it's totally unenforceable.

[Puddingman]

On the bright side, it could force anime creators to be more creative and come up with new cool ideas.

And besides, is it really that hard to find a likable anime without suggestive themes?

And like someone said before, they'll just make the titles 18+. How many people follow those ratings anyways, thinking of kids buying M rated games and stuff.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Puddingman

On the bright side, it could force anime creators to be more creative and come up with new cool ideas.

Define 'creative' and 'cool'.

And besides, is it really that hard to find a likable anime without suggestive themes?

Thing is, though, what exactly is wrong with suggestive themes in the first place? If it offends you, you stop looking at it, or don't look at it at all. And some of them are better than they initially appear (a recent example is R-15 – lots of fanservice, but it worked well as a romantic comedy).

And like someone said before, they'll just make the titles 18+. How many people follow those ratings anyways, thinking of kids buying M rated games and stuff.

I think it's an insult to everyone who watches this stuff, though. People like Ishihara act as if the audience doesn't know what they like or don't like. Plus, the actual amount of shows with highly suggestive content is quite small and even then, they're not all as well-received as one is tempted to think. At least, not compared to the more 'tame' anime.

[Puddingman]

Creative and cool just means to have different alternatives, possibly something that hasn't been done before. Other options, possible growth, things that are different. I'm not saying it will be great, but worst case is they try it and we all see the results of something new.

I think suggestive themes are fine I'm just saying generally people tend to be attracted to violence, sex, drama, etc when it comes to media. I'm suggesting another way to view it, to become interested in genres that don't contain that stuff. There might be some nice surprises there. For people to try some exploring.

I don't understand your last point. Why would having different ratings be an insult?

I'm not supporting the bill or rejecting it, but just saying in general there are other options that could be worth exploring. Anime could take another direction that could be nice. We won't know until/if it happens.

[Marcus H.]

^ Well ratings do not really matter if the consumer base is really very small compared to the gaming industry.

violence, sex, drama

Oh no, not these topics. I don't really want Violence Jack to be remade as an anime series... in fact, depicting those might be used by Ishihara against the industry itself; he can just tell at Blood-C and say, "Is this what your child should watch nowadays?"

In any case, I'm glad that the industry shows its relative indifference to the ordinance bill.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by bhl88

It seems that the publishers behind ACE surrendered and gave in to Ishihara.

TAF 2012 showed them all there again.

Cause they realized this bill was pointless and toothless and barely anything has actually changed? A few manga got banned and that's all. Otherwise it's been status quo. Both sides have gone relatively silent so there is no reason for them to bring it up.

Edit: Funny, I was going to post "and beside, it's too early for ACE to be announced" originally with this post...

And look what just showed up...
Anime Contents Expo 2012 to Run March 31-April 1

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Cause they realized this bill was pointless and toothless and barely anything has actually changed? A few manga got banned and that's all. Otherwise it's been status quo. Both sides have gone relatively silent so there is no reason for them to bring it up.

Edit: Funny, I was going to post "and beside, it's too early for ACE to be announced" originally with this post...

And look what just showed up...
Anime Contents Expo 2012 to Run March 31-April 1

Seems they will continue the fight. They will not give up cause of that.