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Lucidrago · 2017-09-17, 18:41

Well out of the thousand teams participating, the god teams are very few in number. We just know about Team God Alliance, Indra's team, and Surtr's team. And some others but not many. So the number of gods and god-class beings are very limited. And again why would Saji hide his abilities when fighting against Issei considering how OP Issei is. Saji's a straightforward guy and would hold nothing back against Issei. Really doesn't make sense to hide his abilities just because Indra might be watching. One is that they might not even face Indra in this tournament. And two is that it's not like Indra is going to fight them besides the tournament. Issei is far above Saji in the power department. So having a punching match with Issei for the whole match is impossible. Not saying he couldn't take it. But that's just wasting the abilities he has. Saji clearly has his armor on during the match so why wouldn't he use the abilities?

And again what does being a Phenex have to do with pride? Everyone wants to win and some people take it pretty hard when they lose. Ravel's just one who wants to win. I don't see how that's related to her being a Phenex.

Bennia Lover · 2017-09-17, 19:00

Saji couldn't do anything to Indra regardless.

Jedsada · 2017-09-17, 21:43

Ravel’s tactic of destroying battlefield has another benefit. It reduces efforts required in searching enemies by reducing the size of area that they need to explore. since no one in Sona team can withstand the sheer destructiveness unleashed by Issei, there is no need to conduct searching in the area that has already been destroyed by the Infinity Blast. For instance, assuming that Issei wipe out 80% of the battlefield with the Infinity Blaster, thus his team just continue searching in remaining 20% which is much quicker.

While most players generally focus on how to search enemies in the such large area, Ravel thinks in another perspective. Why do we need to waste so much times and resources, when we can simply reduce the size of task. Yes, it’s a brute-force solution that reviewers may loathe, but in the same time, it’s the most effective way to complete the task.

This is also why Rudiger said that Issei team is something he have been looking for. Other players stick themselves to strategies written in the book while Issei and his team can think outside the box. it brings a new experience to Rating Game.

aw454wtr · 2017-09-17, 23:40

Also take into account Issei would consiously hold back his powers as he is careful not to accidentally kill Saji, even in an RG if Issei attacks with full killing intent Saji would be dead like saiaorg's queen would have been

after the promotion exam in vol 11 Issei is probably more wary that he can accidentally kill people if he is not careful thus even within a RG he would be hesistant to use his full power unless he knows his opponent is as strong/ stronger than himself

Lucidrago · 2017-09-18, 00:40

Note that Saji is much tougher and has armor on. Can't be comparing him to Sairaorg's queen. If two of Baraqiel's team members can survive an Infinity Blaster then Saji can survive whatever Issei throws at him. You can't be underestimating Saji and his endurance. And plus in the promotion exam he was fighting someone at the level of a mid-class devil. Far different from someone of Saji's caliber. How can you compare mere mid-class devils to Saji? You don't think that Saji could take something like that? And with the promotion exam. Issei barely did anything. Well he did. But he was far from using full power. Just went a little too far out and didn't understand how strong he was compared to someone who was just at the level of a mid-class devil. Issei's not going to hold back in Rating Games and is going to use full power against strong opponents. Everyone can kill people if they're not careful.

And with Sairaorg's queen Issei was angry and couldn't hold in his feelings anymore so he released them all. And Sacred Gears respond to a possessor's feelings and desires. And because Issei released all of his feelings, he surpassed the bounds of his powers and would have killed Kuisha had she not been forcibly retired. That wasn't Issei's regular full power. Issei had temporarily surpassed his bounds because of releasing his feelings all at once. Like a rush of adrenaline making you move faster or making you stronger than you are even at your peak.

Bennia Lover · 2017-09-18, 04:40

Well Saji cant go toe-to-toe will full stamina Issei in CCP. He was only able to in their fight because Issei had depleted most of his energy and stamina at the beginning so he wasn't fighting Saji at full power CCP. So full CCP is stronger than Saji. Noman even said if Issei had fought Saji at max CCP then things would have been different; Issei would have defeated Saji earlier and with more ease. DxD's use made Issei at the level of the Saji. Saji has great durability that just allows him to last longer than most people. So let's say 100% CCP Issei = 120% Saji's durability. Just an example. Saji has great strength but he has better durability.

B214 · 2017-09-18, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennia Lover

Well Saji cant go toe-to-toe will full stamina Issei in CCP. He was only able to in their fight because Issei had depleted most of his energy and stamina at the beginning so he wasn't fighting Saji at full power CCP. So full CCP is stronger than Saji. Noman even said if Issei had fought Saji at max CCP then things would have been different; Issei would have defeated Saji earlier and with more ease. DxD's use made Issei at the level of the Saji. Saji has great durability that just allows him to last longer than most people. So let's say 100% CCP Issei = 120% Saji's durability. Just an example. Saji has great strength but he has better durability.

Ben, n0m@n said

Quote:

If Ise used just CxC at most then it would have been different.

Not at max. >__>

Bennia Lover · 2017-09-18, 07:23

Ayy i took most as his way of saying max

DragonOsman · 2017-09-18, 07:26

Noman was just saying that he would've thought differently about the match if Ise had only used CxC. Right now he thinks Ishibumi made Ise use too much power against an opponent that shouldn't require using as much power.

But we need to remember that this match is in the format of a Day-Long War. While Ise couldn't have rested as much as he could/should have in an optimal situation since they're still in the middle of a match, he probably did rest at least a bit after using ∞ Blaster to nuke the field. But I do still think he might not actually have been at full power when he fought Saji. He may have had enough power to still be able to beat Saji, but not enough to be able to do so without needing to use DxD G again apparently. And he did only need to transform one arm into DxD G mode as well rather than needing to do a full transformation. That's also something.

But yeah, let's wait and see. Depending on how much rest Ise got to have, I might still end up calling BS. Saji shouldn't be a Power-type. Though this could just be Ishibumi being inconsistent with power-levels again.

Lucidrago · 2017-09-18, 11:43

Yeah I wanted a full-out battle. Issei's power vs Saji skillfully using his abilities combined with his hand-to-hand combat. But even if Issei was exhausted that's still no reason for Saji to be matching Issei in power. I can understand him taking Issei's attacks like a boss and taking three DxD punches even if Issei wasn't exhausted because his endurance and willpower matches Issei's. And plus I don't doubt that Saji could fight on par with Issei. But Saji matching Issei in power despite him not being a power-type? I'm just going to wait and see when the volume is translated.

DragonOsman · 2017-09-18, 12:12

Well, I can somewhat let it go if this happened when Ise was even slightly exhausted. Barring suddenly turning Saji into a Power-type. But yeah, I'll also wait for the actual translation.

Brawlre · 2017-09-19, 16:16

I can understand the willpower part sorta but endurance hell no [no pun intended] Grendel beat this saji to a damn there fucking blood stain while ise was tanking and going pound for pound

Lucidrago · 2017-09-19, 16:25

And did Saji have his armor then? And plus Vritra had gone into the depths of Divine Dividing along with Ddraig and Fafnir and Vritra wasn't there to manage his power so Saji was really nerfed back then due to Vritra not being around.

Tbolt · 2017-09-19, 19:15

Saji is the person who wants to be as strong as his friend but knows he never will be and looking at Ise's dreams compared to his they are not even close, Saji just wants to be a teacher.

DragonOsman · 2017-09-19, 19:29

That's true and all, but Saji can still hold his own against him to an extent (before Ise starts using full power and going all out).

And Lucidrago is right as well, for the record.

Lucidrago · 2017-09-19, 21:12

And Saji wants to compete in Rating Games as well. It's not like Rating Games are a full-time job. He can also be a teacher. And even if Issei went full power in CCQ I'm pretry sure that Saji could handle it.

aw454wtr · 2017-09-20, 01:26

Even in exhausted state Issei could still one hit kill Saji if he used Ddraigs scorching flames that he used against 666 core saying saji could ever be a match for Issei is streching it, if anything the author needed to drag Issei's fight with Saji a bit to fill in the requried number of words as reading a fight that ends in one line is hardly entertaining like azazel vs minotour (aka beef) fight

DragonOsman · 2017-09-20, 08:39

If Ise used that move, Saji would be burned until there's nothing left of him. I'm sure it's banned. Even if it weren't Ise definitely wouldn't use it. Especially not against a friend.

But that's not what Lucidrago meant, anyway. Keep in mind that with his Balance Breaker and all of Vritra's abilities, he can still somewhat hold his own. Even Ddraig said Vritra was a troublesome opponent, and Saji's Balance Breaker has been referred to as his "Dragon King state" in the LNs. His consciousness does merge with Vritra's, after all, and all of Vritra's power is released which is why there's no need for a Breakdown the Beast form.

Lucidrago · 2017-09-20, 10:56

And plus I believe that Issei could only uss those flames in DxD and we know how much of a drain that is on him.

Just saying that Saji could give Issei the fight of his life. Thefe's not that huge a gap between them. I'm talking about Issei(CCQ) and Saji(BB). Not as wide as the gap between Ddraig and Vritra.

Tbolt · 2017-09-20, 17:06

Why would you thing the weakest Dragon King is on par with a Heavenly Dragon, did Saji develop a new ability or is it still what Vritra had before? And just how is a BB even close to CCQ, a weak person can go head to head with a strong person for a short while but the end is still the same, weak will always lose in a fist fight.

2017-09-17, 21:43	Link #1003
Jedsada Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012	Ravel’s tactic of destroying battlefield has another benefit. It reduces efforts required in searching enemies by reducing the size of area that they need to explore. since no one in Sona team can withstand the sheer destructiveness unleashed by Issei, there is no need to conduct searching in the area that has already been destroyed by the Infinity Blast. For instance, assuming that Issei wipe out 80% of the battlefield with the Infinity Blaster, thus his team just continue searching in remaining 20% which is much quicker. While most players generally focus on how to search enemies in the such large area, Ravel thinks in another perspective. Why do we need to waste so much times and resources, when we can simply reduce the size of task. Yes, it’s a brute-force solution that reviewers may loathe, but in the same time, it’s the most effective way to complete the task. This is also why Rudiger said that Issei team is something he have been looking for. Other players stick themselves to strategies written in the book while Issei and his team can think outside the box. it brings a new experience to Rating Game. Last edited by Jedsada; 2017-09-17 at 21:44. Reason: gramma fix

2017-09-18, 07:26	Link #1009
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Noman was just saying that he would've thought differently about the match if Ise had only used CxC. Right now he thinks Ishibumi made Ise use too much power against an opponent that shouldn't require using as much power. But we need to remember that this match is in the format of a Day-Long War. While Ise couldn't have rested as much as he could/should have in an optimal situation since they're still in the middle of a match, he probably did rest at least a bit after using ∞ Blaster to nuke the field. But I do still think he might not actually have been at full power when he fought Saji. He may have had enough power to still be able to beat Saji, but not enough to be able to do so without needing to use DxD G again apparently. And he did only need to transform one arm into DxD G mode as well rather than needing to do a full transformation. That's also something. But yeah, let's wait and see. Depending on how much rest Ise got to have, I might still end up calling BS. Saji shouldn't be a Power-type. Though this could just be Ishibumi being inconsistent with power-levels again. __________________

2017-09-18, 12:12	Link #1011
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Well, I can somewhat let it go if this happened when Ise was even slightly exhausted. Barring suddenly turning Saji into a Power-type. But yeah, I'll also wait for the actual translation. __________________

2017-09-19, 19:15	Link #1014
Tbolt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Texas	Saji is the person who wants to be as strong as his friend but knows he never will be and looking at Ise's dreams compared to his they are not even close, Saji just wants to be a teacher. __________________

2017-09-19, 19:29	Link #1015
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	That's true and all, but Saji can still hold his own against him to an extent (before Ise starts using full power and going all out). And Lucidrago is right as well, for the record. __________________

2017-09-17, 18:41	Link #1001
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	Well out of the thousand teams participating, the god teams are very few in number. We just know about Team God Alliance, Indra's team, and Surtr's team. And some others but not many. So the number of gods and god-class beings are very limited. And again why would Saji hide his abilities when fighting against Issei considering how OP Issei is. Saji's a straightforward guy and would hold nothing back against Issei. Really doesn't make sense to hide his abilities just because Indra might be watching. One is that they might not even face Indra in this tournament. And two is that it's not like Indra is going to fight them besides the tournament. Issei is far above Saji in the power department. So having a punching match with Issei for the whole match is impossible. Not saying he couldn't take it. But that's just wasting the abilities he has. Saji clearly has his armor on during the match so why wouldn't he use the abilities? And again what does being a Phenex have to do with pride? Everyone wants to win and some people take it pretty hard when they lose. Ravel's just one who wants to win. I don't see how that's related to her being a Phenex.

2017-09-17, 19:00	Link #1002
Bennia Lover Elmenhilde Lover Join Date: Mar 2017	Saji couldn't do anything to Indra regardless.

2017-09-17, 23:40	Link #1004
aw454wtr Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014	Also take into account Issei would consiously hold back his powers as he is careful not to accidentally kill Saji, even in an RG if Issei attacks with full killing intent Saji would be dead like saiaorg's queen would have been after the promotion exam in vol 11 Issei is probably more wary that he can accidentally kill people if he is not careful thus even within a RG he would be hesistant to use his full power unless he knows his opponent is as strong/ stronger than himself

2017-09-18, 00:40	Link #1005
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	Note that Saji is much tougher and has armor on. Can't be comparing him to Sairaorg's queen. If two of Baraqiel's team members can survive an Infinity Blaster then Saji can survive whatever Issei throws at him. You can't be underestimating Saji and his endurance. And plus in the promotion exam he was fighting someone at the level of a mid-class devil. Far different from someone of Saji's caliber. How can you compare mere mid-class devils to Saji? You don't think that Saji could take something like that? And with the promotion exam. Issei barely did anything. Well he did. But he was far from using full power. Just went a little too far out and didn't understand how strong he was compared to someone who was just at the level of a mid-class devil. Issei's not going to hold back in Rating Games and is going to use full power against strong opponents. Everyone can kill people if they're not careful. And with Sairaorg's queen Issei was angry and couldn't hold in his feelings anymore so he released them all. And Sacred Gears respond to a possessor's feelings and desires. And because Issei released all of his feelings, he surpassed the bounds of his powers and would have killed Kuisha had she not been forcibly retired. That wasn't Issei's regular full power. Issei had temporarily surpassed his bounds because of releasing his feelings all at once. Like a rush of adrenaline making you move faster or making you stronger than you are even at your peak.

2017-09-18, 04:40	Link #1006
Bennia Lover Elmenhilde Lover Join Date: Mar 2017	Well Saji cant go toe-to-toe will full stamina Issei in CCP. He was only able to in their fight because Issei had depleted most of his energy and stamina at the beginning so he wasn't fighting Saji at full power CCP. So full CCP is stronger than Saji. Noman even said if Issei had fought Saji at max CCP then things would have been different; Issei would have defeated Saji earlier and with more ease. DxD's use made Issei at the level of the Saji. Saji has great durability that just allows him to last longer than most people. So let's say 100% CCP Issei = 120% Saji's durability. Just an example. Saji has great strength but he has better durability.

2017-09-18, 07:23	Link #1008
Bennia Lover Elmenhilde Lover Join Date: Mar 2017	Ayy i took most as his way of saying max

2017-09-18, 11:43	Link #1010
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	Yeah I wanted a full-out battle. Issei's power vs Saji skillfully using his abilities combined with his hand-to-hand combat. But even if Issei was exhausted that's still no reason for Saji to be matching Issei in power. I can understand him taking Issei's attacks like a boss and taking three DxD punches even if Issei wasn't exhausted because his endurance and willpower matches Issei's. And plus I don't doubt that Saji could fight on par with Issei. But Saji matching Issei in power despite him not being a power-type? I'm just going to wait and see when the volume is translated.

2017-09-19, 16:16	Link #1012
Brawlre Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015	I can understand the willpower part sorta but endurance hell no [no pun intended] Grendel beat this saji to a damn there fucking blood stain while ise was tanking and going pound for pound

2017-09-19, 16:25	Link #1013
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	And did Saji have his armor then? And plus Vritra had gone into the depths of Divine Dividing along with Ddraig and Fafnir and Vritra wasn't there to manage his power so Saji was really nerfed back then due to Vritra not being around.

2017-09-19, 21:12	Link #1016
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	And Saji wants to compete in Rating Games as well. It's not like Rating Games are a full-time job. He can also be a teacher. And even if Issei went full power in CCQ I'm pretry sure that Saji could handle it.

2017-09-20, 01:26	Link #1017
aw454wtr Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014	Even in exhausted state Issei could still one hit kill Saji if he used Ddraigs scorching flames that he used against 666 core saying saji could ever be a match for Issei is streching it, if anything the author needed to drag Issei's fight with Saji a bit to fill in the requried number of words as reading a fight that ends in one line is hardly entertaining like azazel vs minotour (aka beef) fight

2017-09-20, 08:39	Link #1018
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	If Ise used that move, Saji would be burned until there's nothing left of him. I'm sure it's banned. Even if it weren't Ise definitely wouldn't use it. Especially not against a friend. But that's not what Lucidrago meant, anyway. Keep in mind that with his Balance Breaker and all of Vritra's abilities, he can still somewhat hold his own. Even Ddraig said Vritra was a troublesome opponent, and Saji's Balance Breaker has been referred to as his "Dragon King state" in the LNs. His consciousness does merge with Vritra's, after all, and all of Vritra's power is released which is why there's no need for a Breakdown the Beast form. __________________

2017-09-20, 10:56	Link #1019
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	And plus I believe that Issei could only uss those flames in DxD and we know how much of a drain that is on him. Just saying that Saji could give Issei the fight of his life. Thefe's not that huge a gap between them. I'm talking about Issei(CCQ) and Saji(BB). Not as wide as the gap between Ddraig and Vritra.

2017-09-20, 17:06	Link #1020
Tbolt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Texas	Why would you thing the weakest Dragon King is on par with a Heavenly Dragon, did Saji develop a new ability or is it still what Vritra had before? And just how is a BB even close to CCQ, a weak person can go head to head with a strong person for a short while but the end is still the same, weak will always lose in a fist fight. __________________